David Calhoun

Looking for comments on your success in installing resistors on rolling stock. The "system" we are using at our club involves a lot of steps prone to ending up with useless or damaged resistors.

For steel wheels with steel axles, we file the insulated side down as much as possible; glue a resistor to the axle (avoiding the insulated area) and touching the back of the wheel; once dry, we "goop" electrical paste between the resistor and the other wheel and between the resistor and the base of the wheel with the insulator. This involves toothpicks and too much of a chance to not make a good connection or to damage the face of the resistor.

I won't even discuss wheel sets with plastic axles. I am recommending the club just throw them away. We tried a fine wire across the axle, a resistor and goop. So far we have managed to damage a number of tiny resistors.

What are your thoughts on how best this is to be done on all 600 of our cars and cabins as we completely signal the club railroad? There has got to be a better, easier, shorter way.

Chief Operating Officer

The Greater Nickel Plate

Reply 0
Darent

Wheel set resisto

I've found this method is quick and reliable. Didn't have much success with gluing the resistor against the axle and wheel. 

The other way which is a bit fiddly is drilling two holes between the insulation and poking the wires into the hole which some electrical paint.

 

 

 

_1280(2).JPG 

 

 

Simon

Reply 0
Nelsonb111563

Resistor value?

What is the value of the resistor you are using.  Nice setup, looks pretty bullet proof!

Nelson Beaudry,  Principle/CEO

Kennebec, Penobscot and Northern RR Co.

Reply 0
ACR_Forever

Simon

Nice assembly!  I wonder, however, if it might be simpler to make the whole thing up as a soldered H shape, then just epoxy the two sides of the H to the top of the truck, rather than the screw attachments?  I realize this might not work with some plastics used in trucks, but for some it should. Just trying to simplify.

Blair

Reply 0
Darent

Resistor value

I'll have a look tomorrow when I can get into my layout room.

Simon

Simon

Reply 0
David Calhoun

Reistors

That looks pretty good. We have a great soldering guy and that may be the way to go. Thanks for the photo.

Chief Operating Officer

The Greater Nickel Plate

Reply 0
peter-f

@ Nelson, 103 would be 10K ohm

10 x (10)**3 10 * 1000 = 10 000 read the first 2, multiply by 10 with the 3rd digit as exponent. now I'd like to know what the wattage is... must be a tag there, somewhere.
- regards

Peter

Reply 0
JimW

Another resistor wheel set option

Bruce Petrarca described what seems an even easier method using conductive ink.  It's in MRH August 2013 page36, fig. 3.  I haven't tried it, but I have it bookmarked because I expect to be doing this to my large fleet in a few years.

JimW

Reply 0
ernie176

Resistor Wheelsets

Here are pics using conductive ink.

The pen and the resistors came from Digikey. 

The resistor is 3.3K  and I think the original document is in the NCE BD20 block detector info .

1 resistor per car and as long as everything is clean they work well and have been zero problems using an NCE detector with an Atlas signal system.  Initially we put them in all the cabeese and over time did the rest of the rolling stock on the club layout.  

Super glue the resistor in the middle of the axle for plastic axle wheel sets and across the insulating bushing on metal axle wheel sets, then paint on the conductive ink. 

Wheel sets with metal axles may have some sort of a clear coating on them.  I just used an X-ACTO knife to scrape it off where I planned to put the conductive ink. 

I didn't overcoat the resistor and conductive ink because the overcoat pen got stepped on.  OOPS...  It has been at least 10 years and all is still well. 

20%20Ink.jpg 44810734.jpg 44757492.jpg 

Modeling the New Haven RR Maybrook Line

Reply 0
David Calhoun

Conductive Pen

Thanks for the info. Do you have a source for the pen? Our club "guru" is having us put resistors on each end of our cabins so that whatever end is last, it will record as having passed the detector. Do we really need to put one on each end of our rolling stock? 

This looks like the best solution so far.

Chief Operating Officer

The Greater Nickel Plate

Reply 0
rrinker

@ Peter, wattage isn;t much concern

They're probably 1/10, there are no marking to indicate such. It is based on the size. An 0603 is 1/10, an 0402 is 1/16. Assuming a 15 volt DCC track voltage, a 10K resistor will need to dissipate a whopping .0225 watts. Slightly over 1/50th. 

       --Randy

 

          

Randy Rinker

Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

http://www.readingeastpenn.com

Reply 0
Cadmaster

to truly detect the train

to truly detect the train then you will need at least on resistor per piece of rolling stock. My rule is that cabooses get one on each truck. Upto 50' cars get one per car. Cars longer than that get one resistor on each end. 

I want to avoid the chance that a turnout would be thrown under a long car that may be still over the turnout. 

Plus the resistors are way cheap.

Neil.

Diamond River Valley Railway Company

http://www.dixierail.com

Reply 0
ernie176

Conductive Pen

Link Below

Out of stock till 2-25 they are available elsewhere but the price is a lot more/

https://www.all-spec.com/Catalog/Adhesives-Sealants-Tapes/Dispensing-Equipment-Accessories/Adhesive-Dispensing-Equipment-Accessories/CW2000-9700?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6KLO7py-4AIVEEsNCh1yUwRpEAQYAiABEgKPRvD_BwE

Hope this helps

Ernie

Modeling the New Haven RR Maybrook Line

Reply 0
ernie176

NCE suggested resistors and link to NCE document

NCE document

https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203218359-Making-resistor-wheel-sets

Suggested resistors etc for use with the NCE BD20

Parts to obtain from Mouser Electronics (1-800-346-6873): 

 Circuit Works Conductive Ink Pen    - part number 5168-2200ST  $11.95

 Circuit Works Overcoat Pen              - part number 5168-3300G    $  9.95

 Surface mount resistors   (size:0805  1/10 watt   3.3K ohms)  - part number 260-3.3K    

I use 2 per caboose and on long cars as stated above.

Modeling the New Haven RR Maybrook Line

Reply 0
henrybstinson

Resistor for wheel sets

Wattage doesn't matter, since 10k Ohms at 16 volts is trivial current:

    16/10000 = 0.0016 A, or 1.6 mA

Wattage = I-square R:  or 0.0016 x 0.0016 / 10000 = 0.0256 or 1/40 Watt

or E-square R: 16 x 16 / 10000 = 0.0256 W

I would be concerned more about adding the friction to all the cars. 

What about the several light detection integration circuit methods:  There is at least one I.C. that incorporates a tiny photocell and transister circuitry and can detect when light is blocked out.  Not useful for night running maybe, unless you can install invisible infrared LED arrays overhead and use infrared-detecting versions of the I.C.s.

You can use Mega-Arduino boards to detect and process many such digital (or even analog) inputs and process those to control switches and lights.

If you want to get clever, you can also program the Arduino board to calculate the speed between two close-by points when light between cars is detected.  Have to be careful not to have the logic confused by different length cars, so have to measure time between two points for the same inter-car space.  

(I suggest the Mega board, since it has up to I think 55 digital inputs, plus can have up to 4 serial channel ports.  I think (have to check) the mega board can have many of its inputs "programmed" to act as either an input or an output.

You can daisy-chain Arduino boards to handle multiple sensors.  Or you can just use one Arduino board per section.  I have a fairly complex switch yard with a ladder track switching to 5 parallel classification tracks (also connected at the other end through turnouts), 3 through tracks (one double through track on the south side and a single through track on the north side.  Lots of turnouts, which I hope to add insulators judiciously so that each turnout can enable or disable a short section of track on its two "outputs" (if one thinks of the outputs as the end that attaches to two tracks).  In other words, when an engine approaches a turnout turned the wrong way, it will run into a short dead section of track and hopefully stop.  (That won't stop an engine from backing cars into a turnout that is turned the wrong way.  That part just requires some smart operations, but having red-green LEDs beside each output leg of a turnout would go a long way to helping manual operations.  Don't think you even need an Arduino board for that if the "dead track section" method is used, but having the LEDs lit beside each turnout would not look realistic.  But wouldn't it be cool.  Of course, an Arduino board could be used to light red/green LEDs on an operations board, by sensing which way each turnout is set.  That should not be hard if the Arduino board is used to control the turnouts.

Also, if you use an Arduino board to control the turnouts, you don't have to purchase expensive tortoises.  You can get 5 volt rotary "servo motors"  from eBay for $2 each if you purchase in bulk.  Those have a 180 degree arc of movement, that can be controlled precisely in small angular increments by the programming in the Arduino board.  These servo motors have short plastic arms with holes in them that I simply attach mildly stiff and slightly springy sections of "memory wire" from Walmart's crafts section (used for making jewelry I think).  Thin but strong enough to operation N-scale and HO gauge Peco turnouts.  I attach the sections of wire by bending through the holes in the plastic armatures with fine needle nose pliers.  Once the appropriate thin hole is drilled and cut through the layout's board, and shaped so that the wire can work back and forth, and the solenoid/servo attached (Flex Glue?) to the bottom of the layout board, as the wire is inserted through the hole in the Peco turnout, the wire can be cut to shorten the length as needed.  With layout using plywood, this is easy, but with thick foam board one might want to dig a hole into the foam so that the servo motor is closer to the bottom of the turnout so that the length of the memory wire is not so long.  (Longer the length, the less strength to move stiff turnouts -- Archimedes lever principle)

Google "Arduino Servo Motors" to see pics and videos. 

I think the Arduino mega boards are somewhere around $18 ea.  (Google "Arduino Mega".  You'll see pics and links to pinout diagrams.)

-- Henry Stinson

Reply 0
dfandrews

phosphor-bronze contactors

I use a variation of Simon's method/materials for cabooses, to reduce drag.  I drill horizontally through the bolster on each side, and then insert phosphor-bronze wire through so it contacts the backside of each wheel (wire is bent slightly if needed, to increase friction contact).  Then, resistors, or wiring to the car interior, etc., can be soldered directly to the phosphor-bronze right next to the bolster.

Don - CEO, MOW super.

Rincon Pacific Railroad, 1960.  - Admin.offices in Ventura County

HO scale std. gauge - interchanges with SP; serves the regional agriculture and oil industries

DCC-NCE, Rasp PI 3 connected to CMRI, JMRI -  ABS searchlight signals

Reply 0
keystonefarm

Resistor wheelsets

Another option other than the conductive pens is a product called Wire Glue. Only $4.95 a small tub and it will do hundreds of wheels. Just Google Wire Glue to find it. Just use it to connect the resistors the same as the pens. All you have to do is remember to stir up the wire glue every so often as the conductive graphite settles out to the bottom after awhile. If the product dries out just add some distilled water stir and you are back in business. ---  Ken 

Reply 0
greg ciurpita gregc

just across insulation

u

greg - LaVale, MD     --   MRH Blogs --  Rocky Hill Website  -- Google Site

Reply 0
mikeruby

To avoid damaging resistors

To avoid damaging resistors when putting the conductive paint on, glue them black side (resistor track) down then if you bridge them with paint just scrape it off without the risk of damaging the resistor coating. This way I've done 100's of wheelsets with very few damaged resistors.

Resistor wheelsets by Mike Ruby, on Flickr">esistors.jpg 

My jig for resistor fitting.

tors_jig.jpg 

Reply 0
peter-f

@mike nice work space...

Looks like a dedicated Bento Box! (Would you like some sushi with that?) You gave me an idea of what to add to my programming/ coupler gauge track.
- regards

Peter

Reply 0
Neil Erickson NeilEr

Tiny!

Are those little dots really the resister?! I thought maybe they were grains of leftover rice from your bento (beef, fish, pork & cabbage?). 

Neil Erickson, Hawai’i 

My Blogs

Reply 0
mikeruby

Are those little dots really

Quote:

Are those little dots really the resister?

Yes they are 0402 size 10K resistors, smaller than a grain of rice. I built the jig as I needed over 400 wheelsets for my stock, two axles per car. I made 10 or 12 batch sizes, doing each stage to to a batch, file the hub, glue on resistors, conductive paint and finally test. There is hole to place the axle point in when working on a wheelset.

Doing a stage per batch per day meant I did 50/60 a week, for maybe a half hour a day. Now most cars are done I just do a batch when I run out of wheeslsets.

Mike

Reply 0
Neil Erickson NeilEr

0402 SMD resistors.

Well done - thank you! Would you share a link to where these were purchased?  I found these on eBay - 200 for 97 cents or 500 for $1.99. 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F232844459967

Neil Erickson, Hawai’i 

My Blogs

Reply 0
mikeruby

I bought them from Farnell in

I bought them from Farnell in the UK, they were not that cheap.

Mike

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

Damage?

Dear MRHers,

Just for the slow amongst us, how exactly are the resistors being damaged?
Personally I've used Circuitworx conductive paint, 60/40 solder,
and applied all manner of thermal and physical abuse to 0603 1K resistors,
and have yet to "damage to the point of not-working" any...
(Just soldered a pair to a PCB inside a PFM Shay,
the solder dwell time was excessive, and the poking/prodding wasn't exactly delicate,
no damage to report...)

Confused and curious...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Reply 0
Reply