Hard at work on it now

We're working on the system as we speak. Here is a photo from yesterday. The dev team is visiting TCS for a week:

We have new (hopefully final) circuit boards, keypads, and a case design: 

We're working on getting the throttle software mostly finished this week. Then it's on to getting injection molds made, FCC testing, and then finally production. Since I don't work for TCS, I can't provide either pricing or delivery times. But our goal, come hell or high water, is to get them on the market later this year.

Thanks, John.....

John, thanks for the update on the TCS throttles.  Any news that you could share on the TCS LCC command station, and the LCC/wireless decoders?

TCS DCC

NCE ...

This is a TCS thread, but NCE is about to change big-time. Can't say any more just yet, but they've not been sitting on their laurels and the fruit of their labors is about to emerge ...

But NCE works.

 Seems everyone want to change things just for the sake of changing things.  NCE Radio Cabs are a solid hard working units.  They have been working great for many years in operation.  

Yes NCE works but

they need updating their system and basic: being wireless for an affordable price.

I love my Power Cab but that cable is always in the way.

Well... it's maybe worth the wait now  Thanks for the info Joe !

Cheers

Since I am a few months off

Since I am a few months off from building a layout, I can afford to wait to see what else is coming.  I have a Digitrax Radio Chief system that I haven't used a great deal (mainly because I've been without a layout most of the past 20 years) but when I have used it, I always have to be fed with a spoon as it is not intuitive or easy to remember the steps.  That being the case I am thinking about a replacement eventually.

Glad it's coming

Was at Amherst show 2019 and talked with some TCS folks at their booth. Got a new "wifi throttle" demo. My biggest takeaway from them was the versatility of the new throttle. It can apparently work with any DCC system that you can get withrottle to work with, not just their system. Apparently, it will be released first before the full system.

Most systems these days seem to double down on proprietary technology, but because TCS is using wifi and lcc and withrottle it seems like this system will "play well with others." 

NCE and change

NCE wireless prices don't seem too bad to me.

There are two things I'd change love NCE to change.  First is the case for the cab 04/06 - it's a little thick and blocky to comfortably hold in one hand, although you can certainly manage it.  A tapered back section like the procab would make the smaller cabs nicer.  And second is put a toggle switch on the smaller cabs for direction.  Or at least make it possible to add your own direction toggle switch.  There's not much I like about digitrax, but their small handheld cab with a big knob and toggle switch is pretty nice (well, if you ignore the 4 little rotary switches for selecting the address anyway).

It will be very interesting to see what the new TCS system looks like when it's release, and (now that the hint has been dropped) what the new NCE stuff will be like.

My Eggs...

...at this point are in the NCE basket. For about 10 years I've owned and used (in "test runs" capacity) an R/C Pro that thus far has been excellent. I do hope NCE isn't  going to change their game to the point that my current NCE equipment is rendered obsolete. I also need another NCE R/C system so I can accommodate two operators.

I'm not interested in any "touch screen controlled" device that requires taking my eyes off the action at hand on the layout. Thus, I prefer buttons and knob that muscle memory can operate without having to visual the buttons/knob. Not so with a touch screen control for you must visual the screen to touch the right area.

Andre

Speaks the Truth

When I operate,  I look at the cab about 1 time to program in my loco.  from that point on I never look at it or play with all the unneeded funny sounds and functions.  Knob for speed and direction button.  Sometimes Horn, never use the bell.  (Our Operations group pretty much bans the bell.  It wreaks havoc on hearing aids.  Some hearing aids are better than others)

The cab nomaly lives in my right hand down to my side.  That is about the last I look at it.  We run single man crews too.  So you don't have some person just following commands.  Go forward, Stop, Go Backwards etc.

Physical buttons

One-handed operation by feel was one of the driving forces behind the design of the TCS throttles. We're developing two throttles: the "large" and "mini." Both of these are designed for one-handed operation by feel. The mini is my baby, and I talked more about it here: https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/31950

Here is a photo of the current prototype (not currently connected to command station and almost out of battery).

My favorite feature is the two thumb switches on the sides. I set the left up to have down for applying brakes (more braking for each push), up for release, and push in for direction change. The I set the right to be down for horn and up for bell. It's pretty cool to be able to do all of these things by feel.

Touch screen novelty

Yes, it feels as if the "novelty" of touch-screen systems has run its course. For serious operators, having to run their phone instead of their train is a pain, and detracts from the overall experience. The TCS throttle seems like it will fix this problem because it uses that same wifi/withrottle protocol but has actual knobs and buttons. Plus I learned that the buttons at the top of the throttle (easiest to reach) are remappable, so you can keep your necessary functions all in one place. Seems like a good idea.

John Socha-Leialoha

Size is everything.  If you can make it the same size as a NCE Cab or smaller.  Big knob with traction grooves on the side of the know.  Most seem to run it with a thumb from the side of the knob.

Some sort of physical direction toggle.  Pull toward you back, push away from you forward.  

Must be easy to use without looking at it and fit into a work apron pocket.

We have some NCE Hammerheads and do not use them just do to the size.

If you make it work in about the size of a Logitech M510 Mouse,  you will be golden.

How does this new throttle

compare to the existing Multimaus wifi throttle( features and price) ? ....DaveB

TCS mini

Sounds good, looks like a nice form factor.  Is it possible to add a toggle switch for direction?

Size and Direction Control

Here is a picture that should answer the size question. The length of the mini and large throttles is determined by the screen, knobs, keypad, and at the bottom the WiFi module that we're using. So we have them about as small as we can make them while keeping the feel and functionality there.

The mini, but the way, has a lanyard attached, which is what you see coming out of the bottom--it's not a wire.

As to direction control, on the mini you can program the thumb switch so that up will switch to forward and down will switch to reverse. That way you can set the thumb switch up to be absolute, which is great for switching.

TCS...

Sounds like you guys (TCS) are making like sailors and getting your ship together on this upcoming launch.

It will be a while before I need to purchase my next system, so it will be interesting see what NCE and you TCS guys come up with. I can then compare the two systems to see which one would best serve me into the future. (Especially if NCE obsoletes my current NCE system.)

Wish you all the best!

Andre

We seem to be headed into a new generation of DCC.

Digitrax has greatly improved their intro model as the Zephyr Express, NCE is apparently planning something, TCS has been showing theirs around (I think "Summer" was the date being bandied around at the show), the ESU CabControl is out there with the Mobile Control II throttle, the ProtoThrottle is sort of it's own beast that works with many systems, and the Digikejis DR-5000 does at least 3 different protocols (Loconet, Xpressnet, ext88N) plus whatever you can throw at it through JMRI. 

Hang on tight - this could be a very interesting ride this year. 

Pretty much all the legacy

Pretty much all the legacy DCC systems have noticeable issues,  These mostly stem from the first version of the system and have not been completely fixed,  

This appears to be at least in part because thier is not a lot of money in selling DCC.  The big companies seam to do ok but our hobby is tiny so it is not like you can spend tons on R&D like most electronics companies do.  Add in that once you buy into a brand you are pretty much stuck with it and it doesn’t have a lot of competition that sees the best of everything rise to the top.

You can’t (historically) buy the best booster to go with the best Command station to go with the best PC interface to go with the best programming throttle to go with the best wireless receiver to go with the best wireless throttle.  You buy whatever your brand sells and you put up with it or you sell it all take a huge financial hit and buy something else and are stuck with that brands stuff.

This is the fault of the NMRA and not implementing a standard for the layout side of things.  

But hopefully with these new systems coming out from new companies and updated systems from some of the legacy companies we MAY just see this change.

-Doug M

PS:  a couple years back I was talking with the Folks at NCE at the National train show asking about how difficult it would be to swap out my Lenz system with an NCE and discussing what I had how it was wired and what I needed to buy and one of the (significant) guys looked up at me (I was actually talking to someone else at the booth) and said that if I could wait a year or so they had something new in the works that would do a better job for me.  So this is not the first time I have heard that NCE was working on something,  I just have been siting back waiting to see if anything ever came of that comment.  Hopefully we will see something soon.  As the newer companies are going to get a jump on them with the newer designs and often with interfaces that connect multiple brands.

Compatability

Our throttles support both JMIR/LNWI and LCC. Both of these are standards that allow difference companies to create products. So in the future, if someone else makes an LCC throttle, it will work with the TCS command station. Or if someone else makes an LCC command station, the TCS throttles will work with that command station.

The TCS command station will support both LCC throttles and NCE throttles. I don't know all the details as I haven't worked on the command station at all.

FYI, for me and much of the development team, this is a work of love rather than a job. We all have day jobs working for large companies. So we're using vacation time to spend a week at TCS and having a great time (working until 1:00AM).

20-20 hindsight

I believe the original idea was to not be too draconian toward vendor ingenuity. The original DCC standard riled some feathers of the existing analog system vendors, so rather than fire too many shots across the bows of the existing control vendors, let's err on the side of limiting creativity the least with just a track signal standard and no more.

If this catches on, then more standards will come when the time is right.

20-20 hindsight says it would have been better to be more aggressive in the beginning. But that's hindsight and would have been even more unpopular at the time to have increased the scope of the standard. And it could have made the workload so huge that the DCC standard may have been stillborn because the scope was just too broad.

Further, had the NMRA set a layout bus standard in the beginning, technological developments since then would have us complaining that the bus standard was too old and dated now.

Well...

I'm too old and dated now, too... so no big deal.

Andre

Looks Interesting

I really like the looks of the TCS throttles, and the thumb buttons are a great idea, would really love it if it could hook to my layout and let my NCE Power Cab be a command station.

TIM