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Walthers's Passenger Cars, Atlantic Coast Line Locos and rolling stock
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Prolific poster 8,762 posts railandsail Prolific poster 8,762 posts
railandsail

A couple of weeks ago I acquired some really nice 85' modern passenger cars that came from an estate sale. They had no markings on them as to manufacturer? They appear to be of a very high quality, and are already set up for lighting via their truck pic-ups.

I inquired with a few other modelers that seemed to be pretty sure they were Walthers brand, and that often Walters cars did not had a brand printed on their bottoms, as Walthers has many different manufacturers produce product for themselves??

3 of these cars have figures (passengers) in them. Did any of the 'stock' passenger cars have such?

Since these did NOT come in boxes, I'm unsure as to what exact subcategory of the Walthers line they might be from? I'm trying to determine a value as I may wish to sell them off due to my fondness for B&O, C&O, and Santa Fe.

Long ago I had some Concor passenger cars that had molded bottoms somewhat similar to these, and at first I thought they might be some 'upgraded' Concor cars. But they are far superior to those.

 



 

Brian

1) First Ideas: Help Designing Dbl-Deck Plan in Dedicated Shed
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jeffshultz MRH Staff 7,972 posts
jeffshultz

Photos?

Do you have any photos of the cars you could post? That might help with identification. 

orange70.jpg
Jeff Shultz - MRH Technical Assistant
DCC Features Matrix/My blog index
Modeling a fictional GWI shortline combining three separate areas into one freelance-ish railroad.
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railandsail Prolific poster 8,762 posts
railandsail

Photos

I'll have to make some photos. In the meantime here is what the bottoms of my cars look like,..

Looks most certainly like these are Walther's cars.

But I see no references to figures being included, so I must assume the previous owner added them??

 

 

Brian

1) First Ideas: Help Designing Dbl-Deck Plan in Dedicated Shed
2) Next Idea: Another Interesting Trackplan to Consider
3) Final Plan: Trans-Continental Connector
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railandsail Prolific poster 8,762 posts
railandsail

....interesting/informative

....interesting/informative posting on another forum...

 

 

Quote:

1. Is the lighting pick up a metal shoe over the truck that contacts a screw on the top of the truck? That is the Walther's design.
2. Yes, Walther's "Name Train" series deluxe cars come with Preiser figures in them.
3. Walther's has recently run "Name Train" series cars for all three of the roads you mention B&O, C&O, and Santa Fe.
4. Walther's Proto cars will have metal trucks.

The deluxe cars originally only sold in sets, but people who purchased sets and broke them up made the retail list between $90 and $150 depending on type of car and whether or not they were sound equipped. Not having the box will lower the price as these were made for collectors. The boxes had special sleeves on them branded with the train name.
https://www.walthers.com/catalog/category/view/id/13423

The non-deluxe cars came in two versions with lights and without lights. List hovering around the $80 price. Box will not be important here.

Personally I try never to pay more than $50. I got the Hiawatha and Empire Builder sets (non-deluxe) in the $34-$43 range because I waited for the used market. Some of these sets increase in value until the next time Walther's runs them and then there is a reset. Plus Walthers seems to increase the price by at least 10% at each run.

Then there are just the generic Walther's Proto "Streamline" and "Heavyweight" passenger cars that run in the $60 price range.

And finally Walther's has a cheapo line called Mainline. I don't know much about these.

Brian

1) First Ideas: Help Designing Dbl-Deck Plan in Dedicated Shed
2) Next Idea: Another Interesting Trackplan to Consider
3) Final Plan: Trans-Continental Connector
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railandsail Prolific poster 8,762 posts
railandsail

a Few Photos of those cars

Here area few photos of the Walthers passenger cars I was asking about...

DSCF3629.jpg 

 

DSCF3622.jpg 

 

DSCF3623.jpg 

 

DSCF3620.jpg 

 

F3622(1).jpg 

 

DSCF3594.jpg 

 

DSCF3596.jpg 

 

DSCF3597.jpg 

 

DSCF3600.jpg 

 

DSCF3599.jpg 

 

DSCF3612.jpg 

 

DSCF3610.jpg 

 

DSCF3615.jpg 

Brian

1) First Ideas: Help Designing Dbl-Deck Plan in Dedicated Shed
2) Next Idea: Another Interesting Trackplan to Consider
3) Final Plan: Trans-Continental Connector
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railandsail Prolific poster 8,762 posts
railandsail

Detective Story Evolving

...from another forum...

Quote:


 

zstripe
Walthers Proto... Walthers Mainline... They both had the same shell/chassis.​




I don't believe this is correct -- I am pretty sure the construction is different. Walthers Mainline cars have the roof and window glazing as one part (a la the old Rivarossis) while Proto cars (and, I believe, older 932-series cars) have a seperate roof. (Hence the "twist" method of disassembly doesn't work the same way with the Mainlines -- you have to twist while holding the steps instead of the whole carbody.)

Walthers Protos come with body-mount couplers, grab irons installed, roof is a stand-alone item.

Walthers Mainline cars come with truck-mount couplers and no grabs. A conversion kit adds both, but you should see signs that the talgo mount was cut from the truck.

The older 932-series cars (beige/red box) have body-mount couplers. I've seen them with grabs factory installed or as a seperate kit. Can't speak to the construction as I have not disassembled any, but I do believe the prototypes of the cars were different than the Mainline streamliners, which are mostly NYC cars. Many of the 932s I have (except the Slumbercoaches) are different prototypes.

I *think* the 932s may have morphed into the Protos, but I'm not 100% sure. Best way to check is to compare the window patterns.

I have a great book (Amtrak Car Diagrams of the 1970s, by WAymer Publications) that shows the window pattern and interior layouts of most of the cars Amtrak inhereted, and it's proven to be an invaluable resource in sussing out which prototype a model is patterned after. That's how I figured out that the Mainline cars were correct for NYC and many of the 932s weren't. img.gif 

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...eld-keywords=amtrak+car+diagrams+of+the+1970s

Hope this helps someone, somewhere.

Aaron

Brian

1) First Ideas: Help Designing Dbl-Deck Plan in Dedicated Shed
2) Next Idea: Another Interesting Trackplan to Consider
3) Final Plan: Trans-Continental Connector
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railandsail Prolific poster 8,762 posts
railandsail

Detective Story Evolving

Quote:

The current Walthers Proto passenger cars are the outgrowth of their original Ready to Run line of mostly pre ww2 PS and Post ww2 Budds, with separate roofs, floor mounted couplers and provision for interior lighting. As time went on, they were improved. Handrails and grabirons were installed, instead of coming in a small pack, for instance. Plastic couplers were replaced with metal couplers, interior lighting became an option and most recently, a Deluxe version, aimed at collectors, came with factory applied names / numbers passengers, lighting and sound.

Walthers Mainline product line, has evolved into their version of the "operator's" line with less detail and more flexibility to appeal to those interested in operations, or less concerned with prototype fidelity. They come with truck mounted couplers, have a generic floor pattern, and as previously mentioned generally follow NYC prototype with two exceptions, the Wabash Budd Combine Baggage Lounge, and a Budd Dome which is definitely not NYC, (CP?). Also as previously noted, Walthers sells detail and upgrade kits to bring the Mainline cars up to basic Proto standards.

With regard to the OP's photos, I will go out on a limb and guess that the original owner repainted and relettered the 932 cars for ACL. The RPO is ATSF prototype, the Diner is a NYC Hamburger Grill Lounge, the Coaches ATSF single level coaches, the Sleeping car, a UP Pacific 10-6. and the parlor a PRR Parlor car. They do appear to be Walthers 932 series coaches.

Boris

Double interesting,...that portion underlined.

 

 

Brian

1) First Ideas: Help Designing Dbl-Deck Plan in Dedicated Shed
2) Next Idea: Another Interesting Trackplan to Consider
3) Final Plan: Trans-Continental Connector
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Backshophoss Regular poster 198 posts
Backshophoss

Walters did unlettered cars

The cars seem to be the Proto series,might still have the plastic McHenry clone couplers(plastic spring).

Walters did unlettered versions of the cars,all you had to do was install the Decals

Would advise to change the couplers to KD # 5's,and pitch the "plastic wonders" that fail under load.
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railandsail Prolific poster 8,762 posts
railandsail

Mine do NOT appear to be

Mine do NOT appear to be undecorated cars, and their couplers are NOT McHenry's, but rather metal spring equipped.

CORRECTION: I think I need to correct this statement. Seeing as how the couplers had metal springs for the knuckle portion of the coupler, I automatically assumed they were not McHenrys, but rather Kadee. I've come to find out that McHenry built some of their later couplers with metal springs, I believe that is what these are.
Obviously they are not the truck mounted couplers.

 

 

Brian

1) First Ideas: Help Designing Dbl-Deck Plan in Dedicated Shed
2) Next Idea: Another Interesting Trackplan to Consider
3) Final Plan: Trans-Continental Connector
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railandsail Prolific poster 8,762 posts
railandsail

Handrails & Grabirons

These cars did NOT come with the normal pkg of handrails and grabirons. Is there a third party source for these??

Brian

1) First Ideas: Help Designing Dbl-Deck Plan in Dedicated Shed
2) Next Idea: Another Interesting Trackplan to Consider
3) Final Plan: Trans-Continental Connector
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railandsail Prolific poster 8,762 posts
railandsail

Visable Underneath Details

I have fair number of Santa Fe streamline passenger cars, but they are in their original packaging, located down in a cedar footlocker, and under a bunch of other stuff in my cargo/stowage trailer. Point is they are not very accessible.
 
Perhaps someone can help answer a question for me?

If I remember properly I think most of these cars have skirting on them that 'hides' the details that exist on their bottoms.

 

Looking at my Atlantic car set I found I am really attracted to those cars with no or limited shirting,...like the ones I've attached. Do any of the SF cars have this 'open skirting'?

DSCF4806.JPG 

 

verses...
DSCF4807.JPG 

Brian

1) First Ideas: Help Designing Dbl-Deck Plan in Dedicated Shed
2) Next Idea: Another Interesting Trackplan to Consider
3) Final Plan: Trans-Continental Connector
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uncle joe New member 18 posts
uncle joe

ACL (?) passenger cars

None of these are correct for ACL.AFAIK no one makes a correct ACL LW car.

All the trucks are wrong (they can be changed).They are OSH trucks.

Over all they are Walthers cars painted ACL,totally incorrect.What is known

as a fuby.
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railandsail Prolific poster 8,762 posts
railandsail

Not Passenger Car knowledgeable

Can someone help me with identifying the various model designations on these passenger cars I have??

I do know the RPO car, but that's about it,...and one of them is labelled 'pullman'

Brian

1) First Ideas: Help Designing Dbl-Deck Plan in Dedicated Shed
2) Next Idea: Another Interesting Trackplan to Consider
3) Final Plan: Trans-Continental Connector
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jeffshultz MRH Staff 7,972 posts
jeffshultz

Passenger cars

Passenger train cars fall into two categories: Front end and passenger. 

The front end cars are the baggage and RPO cars, which are noted by their usual lack of windows and large doors. On some railroads there were also express freight and refrigerator cars. 

There are several type of passenger cars: Sleepers (which a Pullman car would be) which contain sleeping compartments of various sorts, coach cars, which are normally "seats only," diner cars - the kitchen (galley) and restaurant-style seating, and observation cars, which were normally the last car in a passenger train and thus were built to offer a better view out the back. A new type, used on modern commuter trains, is the cab car, which incorporates an engineer cab in one end to control the train from - that way the train can be run in either direction without having to turn around. 

You may also see terms like "cafe" (a non-full service diner) and lounge (a bar, effectively). These days those are combined, but I think the lounge car was most commonly the observation car in the past. I might be wrong, this is not one of my strong suits.  

The dome cars tended to be either coach or observation cars. 

A modern Amtrak Superliner train will have baggage, sleeper, diner, cafe/lounge (the one with the big windows) and coach cars. 

orange70.jpg
Jeff Shultz - MRH Technical Assistant
DCC Features Matrix/My blog index
Modeling a fictional GWI shortline combining three separate areas into one freelance-ish railroad.
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Backshophoss Regular poster 198 posts
Backshophoss

Thre was car switching at Wash DC

At Union station in DC,along with the power swap to a GG-1,some cars are pulled,that are routed else where

(Pullman sleepers) and cars that cannot clear the 3rd rail at NY Penn Station.
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railandsail Prolific poster 8,762 posts
railandsail

Looks like I have 1 RPO 3

Looks like I have
1 RPO
3 coaches
1 budd diner
1 pullman sleeper
1 ?......coach with angled single-seat lounge chairs? (what do you call this?)
%20ps700.jpg 

 

%20ps700.jpg 

 

Brian

1) First Ideas: Help Designing Dbl-Deck Plan in Dedicated Shed
2) Next Idea: Another Interesting Trackplan to Consider
3) Final Plan: Trans-Continental Connector
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gmpullman Prolific poster 1,119 posts
gmpullman

1 ?......coach with angled

Quote:

1 ?......coach with angled single-seat lounge chairs? (what do you call this?)

That would be a Parlor Car. A step up from ordinary coach on day trains. Notably the Congressional Limited on the PRR, Empire State Express on the NYC were both trains with several parlor cars in tow.

Here's the interior of the Burlington Zephyr parlor-observation car:

feec8a_o.jpg 

Regards, Ed 

Travel and Sleep In Pullman Safety and Comfort!
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Benny MRH Author 7,124 posts
Benny

...

Prototypical or not, that set should fetch a pretty penny on Ebay. 

I once had a Proto 2K ALC E-8 AB set, but sold it off long ago.

Best of luck!!

--------------------------------------------------------

Benny's Index or Somewhere Chasing Rabbits
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railandsail Prolific poster 8,762 posts
railandsail

I'm not a fan of Ebay any

I'm not a fan of Ebay any longer, so I resist that venue. I've got a buyer coming tomorrow, and I believe my asking price (reduced down) of only $25 per car is pretty fair,...yet he was seeking less ??
 

Thanks for that parlor car reference,...seats look like this, but it definitely not an 'observation car in the traditional definition.

Brian

1) First Ideas: Help Designing Dbl-Deck Plan in Dedicated Shed
2) Next Idea: Another Interesting Trackplan to Consider
3) Final Plan: Trans-Continental Connector
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jimfitch Prolific poster 5,269 posts
jimfitch

Yes, one of the cars sounds

Yes, one of the cars sounds like a lounge - I have a couple of the I've obtained to build an Amtral San Francisco Zephyr, which I road as a teen.

The asking price of $25 is very good for the passenger cars assuming they are in like-new condition and in original box.  It isn't unusual for people to try to lowball, so if thats the case - tell them kindly to pound sand.  

If original boxes are missing, that may reduce the price people are willing to pay by a little.  I've bought rolling stock without boxes when I could tell from photo's that they were in very good condition, but I did get them at a lower price than if they were new in the box.

 

.

Jim Fitch
northern VA
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