"So is it possible to make

  Hi Jim, We had a fairly extensive thread on this topic a couple of month back, I can't recall the title though ::> )  You can modify these with insulated throw bars but they will work with solid throw bars too, just add insulated rail joiners at the frog end connection to the next track section. This way when the turnout is thrown the points reverse the frog polarity (thus the need to insulate the frog from the farther down the line rails). ....DaveB

I did that on my last layout

I did that on my last layout but I never got it up fully in DCC mode to test it.  Sounds like I don't need to do surgery on them if I do use them.

If this is a repeat topic, I apologize.  The mods can delete it.

Metal wheels may occasionally short

If you leave the two points as electrically connected you may occasionally have shorts caused by the back of metal wheels hitting the point as they roll by on the stock rail.  What my friend who had some like that which occasionally caused trouble did was paint something insulating on the backside of the point - if I remember right it was nail polish.  It had to be redone every once in a while.  On a large layout with tons of rolling stock and guest equipment running periodically it was either that or replace the turnouts.  With a smaller more tightly controlled fleet of rolling stock you may be able to prevent the wheel back shorts just by making absolutely sure every wheelset is properly gauged and there aren’t wheelsets with thicker backs than they should have.

Wheels may short

As Ken said the wheels might short so that’s why most folks use insulated throw bars. If you can keep only in gauge wheels on the layout you shouldn’t have too much trouble. Make sure the throw bar is soldered with enough point clearance (I’m not sure how theseWalthers turnouts are gauged) then give it a try, you can always change the throw bar if it becomes a problem.....Dave B

Does anyone make replacement throw bars?

I'm wondering if you could cut the throw bar with a cutoff wheel in a Dremel, and then glue a thin piece of plastic across the 2 pieces of the throw bar to keep the spacing correct, or is this too much work?

PC TIES

You can use PC ties as does Fastracks. They sell them.You must cut the copper cladding though (both sides)

I leave 'em alone.

No, you can't.  You have to replace it with something that can be gapped, and make the other modifications to prevent the frog and closure rails from changing polarity as the points are thrown.  I've just left mine with no modifications, so they are not "DCC friendly," but remain in use on a DCC layout.

Yes You CAN!!!

It really depends upon how much work and frustration you can stand. So back to one of the standard DCC wiring references: Allan Gartner's Wiring for DCC site and the (Old) Walter's / Shinohara page. You really need to rework the throw bars and cut some gaps, but it can be done. I had about 20 reworked Shinohara's on my modules. 

Photo from Allan's site.

Throwbar

Okay, I have some Shinohara, and my next layout I'll be starting in a bit will be DCC. As I recall, the points are tied together at both the bridle and the pivot. (Thus the entire set of points/bridle/pivot are one electrically.) SO, wouldn't both the bridle AND the pivot have to be isolated to separate the points so they do not have continuity?

Or am I missing something?

Andre

Edit: "continuous continuity"??  Sheesh, what a putz.

Yup

Yes, both of those have to be removed.

Best of all a copy of answers about these turnouts one month ago

I just made a copy about answers I received about a questions how to make these old Shinohara old turnouts DCC friendly one month ago.

Cheers Marc

The Issue is the points

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Gaps cut before and after frog. The black tie just before the frog is powering the point rails

 

Flip side

 

 

Some people said using guitar string would cause issues and derails. Never did. I did not trust rail joiners in the long run.

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Learned the hard way

I picked up several used Shinohara turnouts on ebay a few years back that weren't "friendly". I experimented with 3 or 4 methods before settled with what worked best for me. 

I ended up using my Fast Tracks template and point filing tool to make total replacements for the stock Shinohara points and closure rails. At first, I only soldered the first throw rod PC board to the one-piece point/closure rails. After I removed the Shinohara points and stock rails, I inserted the new rails and PC board throw bar up through the hole in the ties where the stock throw bar was and let them remain loose. Then, I glued the switch in place and let it dry to the roadbed. Then, I spiked the closure rails down and checked for alignment with the frog and adjusted as neccesary. Finally, I soldered one more PC board strip in place to keep the points in gauge. So the final product ended up as a hybrid Shinohara/Fast Tracks turnout. 

I wish I had pictures, but all the switches are stashed away in a box......somewhere. 

"A DCC turnout tolerates imperfections in trackwork and wheels."

how imperfect is you trackwork and wheels?

A turnout that works well that does not look like the above diagrams is not DCC friendly! It is important to note that the definition of DCC friendliness is "objective," not "subjective." In other words, a DCC friendly turnout is not one that just happens to work well even though it does not look like the above diagrams. If a turnout does not have the point and stock rail at the same polarity and a single polarity (controlled by the switch machine) at the frog, it is not a DCC friendly turnout.

A DCC turnout tolerates imperfections in trackwork and wheels.

If you have a turnout that is working well, you don't have a DCC friendly turnout, you have good trackwork and wheels.

More detailled

Here is a schematic of a perfect DCC friendly turnout (more on http://www.wiringfordcc.com)

Second a picture with signs on a Shinohara turnout

BLUE is jump wire

RED is where track need to be cut or the pc ties

GREEN is the two metalic plate where the points are soldered which need to be removed; half rail joiners hold them on the rest of the point rails

MAGENTA is a PC ties which replace the original throwbar and the metalic plates and need a cut in the copper to insulate each side.

Remark, Frog need a wire soldered to give power which need to be soldered to switch machines contacts or other device to have the good polarity.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm

Gap the Frog

Part of the modification that I have used in the past, in addition to removing the metal connector between the closure rails includes cutting gaps to isolate the frog - on both sides of the frog, but as close to the frog as possible.  This leaves the frog unpowered and requires jumper connections from the adjacent stock rails to provide reliable power to the closure rails.  

Here is an alternate approach to the use of alternate throw bar material:  Use a Dremel tool and a separating disc and grind away the top of the rivet that secures the metal bar connecting the closure rails to the throw bar.  Takes only a moment.  Drop out the rivet and remove the plastic throw bar.  Cut across the metal bar through the hole where the rivet used to be, to make two pieces out of the closure rails.  Now mark, lightly punch and clearance drill each part of the metal bar for a 1.7mm x 2mm black plastic (or metal) screw (available from Northwest Short Line). Drill and tap the original throw bar for the 1.7mm screw such that you maintain proper flange clearance between the closure rail and stock rail when thrown in either direction.  Reassemble the closure rails and fasten the metal stubs to the holes tapped in the original plastic throw bar with the 1.7mm screws.

I’ve used this in many instances converting Shinohara turnouts for DCC and have had no problems using the original throw bars in this manner.

" I'm not sure I have the

  Hi Jim,   Soldering wires is gonna be required for any plastic turnout ,not just the Shinoharas. If you like the looks of these it wouldn't take long to see how they work as is.  Hook a piece of flextrack to the point end using two metal rail joiners, and pieces of flex track to each diverging route using metal joiners on the outside rails and plastic joiners on the two rails coming from the frog. Clip feeders to the two outside rails and the inside rails of the routes beyond the insulated joiners then see how things run thru them. I've seen these type turnouts used on DCC layouts for many years, lots of layouts had these type before DCC came out and their owners didn't change them when they went to DCC .......DaveB

Jim

What code are your Shinohara's again? (I think they're code 83?)

From the way the track plan is going, looks like I'm going to be back into the market to acquire more code 70 Shinohara switches. (Don't have enough on hand!)

Andre

. .

How did my post from thread # 35273  end up with Marc " On the run with my Maclau River RR in Nscale "  signature  here  ?  

This  was a post i created  in thread #35273.  Not the same Marc.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

@marcfo68

This happend because I make a copy/paste of the topic I opened one month ago, and I have includes this copy in my answer in this topic for Jim.

Since I included it in my answer, the full reply is signed by my " On the run....."

But I didn't have change nothing to your excellent answer to my old topic.

I feel since the older topic was not really long, it was better to include it here as a copy in place of a anonymous link to an old topic.

Feel this way, it illustrate much better the topic and help Jim better than a simple link .

..

CODE 83 ?  I would be interested in them if you are not inclined to modifying them.

Marc

@jim

Thanks for the feedback. I'm

Use the quote

Marc, that thing on the second toolbar just above the editing box when you’re typing a reply that looks like a quote, is what you use for making quotes from other posts.  Like this:

Paste into the quote box.  That makes it clearer who is saying what. 

Path of Least Effort

Jim,

Follow the suggestions that propose simply isolating the frog rails. You don't have to cut any rails, either: simply use insulating joiners at the connections of the frog rails to the adjoining track. That is what I have done with no negative consequences.

Dante