As I said on your other thread

They're Peco.  They have positive retention springs.  Flick them with a finger.  Especially since you're using a Pinwheel ladder, where the switches are all aligned along the front edge of your benchwork.  This is a staging yard. 

Blair

The staging level shelf

The staging level shelf (deck) is outlined in the black mark. It fits along the edge of the room and then projects out towards the center of the back wall via that unusual form (horn?). It all sits 8" under the main deck shelf that is represented by the larger brown paper form (with its aisle).

I'm hoping to rig up some 'fixtures' mounted on that strip of shelf just outside of the turnouts that will allow a cable type manual operation of the individual turnouts, ie, wire within a plastic tube that would come up to a small panel mounted of the front face of the main deck's edge at the front of the aisle.

As you can see some of those turnouts get pretty far up under the main deck, particularly the very first ones the train reaches as it comes in from the helix area. And the turnouts that control the peninsula staging are rather un-accessable for finger-flicking. but a little wire-within-a-tube type cable could work well. I think model airplane guys use such items.

Anyone with ideas (links) to that subject matter??

One option

You can get piano wire and insert it in small brass diameter tubes. Bend the wire 90 degrees on one end and hook to the turnout throw bar. On the other end of the wire you can hook it to a Caboose Industries Ground throw attached to the side of the layout. 

I show where I’ve done this on my Seaboard Central in my October and November updates.

Manual turnout control

Brian,

  I just use the 'Blue Point' turnout control system.  I mention it because it does use a plastic cable within another plastic cable to move the 'manual' turnout controller.  It might give you some ideas. 

  I do believe the 3' cables are available separately.  Fast Tracks also offers the Bullfrog manual system which uses a similar plastic cable.

  Either one might give you some ideas.  I bought mine a long time ago because I liked the 'power routing' switch available with the Blue Point system.  (Fast Tracks wasn't available at the time)  I have no idea what the price is today.

Gary

Metal Cable Gold-N-Rod Push Rod System from Sullivan

Just found this:

This Is One 36" (.032") Metal Cable Gold-N-Rod Push Rod System from Sullivan.

Key Features Stranded stainless steel cables combine high strength with maximum flexibility Cables are plated for easy soldering to connectors Made to tight tolerances to insure smooth operation with minimum friction Excellent for throttle control - all control surfaces on small to medium size aircraft

Stranded stainless steel cables combine high strength with maximum
flexibility.
Cables are plated for easy soldering to connectors.
Each brass plated Gold-N-Clevis is constructed of tempered steel
with an interlocking collar, welded pin and an exclusive steel
retaining clip to prevent accidental opening.
Excellent for throttle control, all control surfaces on small to
medium size aircraft, retracts and double cable installations.
Good for medium duty control systems in cars, boats and helicopters
Detailed installation instructions.
Used to connect servo arms in the model to the model's control
surfaces.
Made to tight tolerances to insure smooth operation with minimum
friction.
Comes complete with Gold-N-Clevises and other installation hardware
in standard thread sizes.

1 Pushcable
1 Pushrod Cover
All Necessary Hardware

Length: 36" (914mm)
Min. Radius: 1-1/2" (38mm)
Cable Size: .032" (0.81mm)
Color: Yellow
Thread Size: 2-56

*******************************************************************
 

This is a Lightweight Pushrod by Sullivan.
This is a Lightweight Pushrod by Sullivan. FEATURES: Semiflexible High Strength Music Wire Yellow Nylon Tube Designed for Gliders, Electric and 1/2A Models

Semiflexible
High Strength Music Wire
Yellow Nylon Tube
Designed for Gliders, Electric and 1/2A Models

One 0.025" Wire
One Yellow Nylon tube

Linages and Pliers

Length: 914mm (36")
Wire Diameter: 0.635mm (0.025")
Tube Diameter: 1.6mm (0.0625")

Cable Rigidity & Flexibility

Those Peco switches have a pretty strong spring action that needs to be pushed against, so i want to be sure the cable I choose would have that capability. Anyone have personal experiences with cable control of Pecos,....problems etc??

Another Sullivan

Another Sullivan description...

I'm assuming the additional red sheath is for fuel proofing?

Pushrods

I started using pushrods to control turnouts I could not easily reach or where I could not install a motor below the deck, but I also had a tube and bin of spare parts left over from my RC Airplane flying days. I find that they can work very well if you do not accidentally get glue in the tube (really dumb mistake I made several time on aircraft). If you have not used model pushrods before, you wight want to stop by your local hobby shop to see the wide range of products and accessories (servo arms, horns) which you may find useful. I have used pushrods to drive several switches at the same time including a Gage 1 double-crossing. We used control rods on one staging yard module because (too many fat fingers kept derailing cars) the rods could easily be run between ties on top of the baseboard.

Basically anything

Hi,

Looking at your mockup, I'd think that basically anything is possible. As long as the pushrods are in line with the throwbar, you can use anything. A stiff wire, even a piece of wood. Guide the other end with a ring, a piece of tube or just some scrap blocks. You can even hide the end of your rod with some piece of scenery: push the red car to throw one turnout, pull the outhouse for the other turnout...

Those flexible cables come into play once you are not in line with the throwbar. Grab the ones already mentioned from FastTracks or similar as they've been proven to work. But you could experiment with bicycle cables, too. Or the ones you found.

Have fun!

control RODS pushing?

Yes Ken, I had that in mind as well in my freight yard,...manual control of the Pecos by cable. And it would need to nice to be relatively small in diameter to fit between the ties and the baseboard.

Two questions come to mind:
1) Can it be small dia and still 'push' the Peco springs?
2) Can it also be flexible to 'snake' thru the yard tracks?

Pushrod Questions

Yes and yes. The outer diameter of some of the set for mini and micro RCs are ~1/8", but I would not try to run them for more than about two feet especially with any substantial "snake". As I said you will get a better idea of what is available at your LHS. If you are using any "roadbed" under your staging track, you will have plenty of space for cutouts to run the tubes through.

Sullivan Cables

Just remember that the outer tube has to be fastened to the facia to keep it stationary. I didn't see it mentioned but how long will the pushrods need to be. I might suggest you take a look at the "Fast Tracks' web site and look at what they have available for their "Bull Frog" machines. Gives you a better understanding of how distance affects the set up and any potential problems or also solutions.

Wayne

RC planes or ship push rod

In the hardware for RC planes like ship, it exist push rod, no cable Inside a plastic tube, the rod is made of a rigid plastic  which slide Inside the tube.

Even if the rod is rigid you can flex it easily; I think these rod are made of a sort of delrin or nylon, and because of that they slide very easily in the tube; they are sold in lenght of 1 meter or 3' feet.

These rod are solid, rigid and it exist a lot of hardware you can fix to he end to attach the plastic rod to a servo or in this case on a throwbar of a turnout.

Some years ago MR has published an article about them and their use to control turnout, gates, uncoupler.

They seems to be cheap and easy to use.

The outer diameter of some of

No local hobby shops around St Augustine Fla. I think there are some model plane guys around so perhaps I need to inquire with them about their sources.

And I don't plan on having any 'roadbed' under my staging tracks, nor the freight yard tracks.

So that's why I was asking about small dia to fit under std Atlas track.

Access?

If you can't reach in and flick the turnouts by hand consider how you'll maintain and repair them.......DaveB

Clothes pin, paper clip and wire

It's an old video (I should probably make a new one with better camera and lighting), but you get the idea.

Terry

Oil Pressure Guage

well, that got your attention.  Old pressure gauges were connected with a 1/8" nylon tubing sold in auto parts stores by the roll.  Just cut this to the length required.  As for the wire... you can buy,  like 18ga. silver, non insulated wire on a spool that is used around the shop for all kinds of stuff.  It is not ridged at all, but it doesn't need to be because it will be inside the tubing.  Get the tubing first and then find the wire to fit it. 

A different idea would be

to use a small spring on one end of the throw bar that holds the points in that position.  On the other side closest to the front of the layout attach a monofilament fishing line and run this out to the fascia.  Direct the path through little eye screws.  Tie a washer on the end of the line and pull it down and hang it on a small nail to keep tension on the line.  This will hold the switch in the opposing position until you release the washer.  All these ideas will require the use of a micro switch mounted at the turnout to control frog polarity.

small coffee stirrers

My layout is on 1" foam, I embedded the straws (coffee stirrers, small drinking straws, ( I like the idea of oil pressure gauge tubing) in the foam, taping the joints to align them and small welding wire on a spool, cut to length work great. I am near Lake City Fl, and St A is a great place to spend a day, O C Whites is my favorite eatery.

Old pressure gauges were

You've got me thinking Michael,.....dangerous....ha...ha

I definitely did NOT want something  hanging below the plywood deck,...of either my staging deck nor the main decks above. I've already got a ton of Tortoise & Peco machines, but still like the idea, simplicity, of manual operation (and I don't intend to go thru the aggregation and expense of energizing the frogs of my insulafrog Pecos).

I prefer some sort of small diameter 'tube within a tube' or 'cable within a tube' that can lay flat on the plywood deck, snake (curvable) under the stock Atlas track (non-roadbed), and be rigid enough at its exit point to PUSH against the spring action of a Peco turnout. I know most will pull, but a single cable needs to PUSH.

Acessing turnouts in Staging

It is possible I could reach in and flick them, but its not convenient to get down that low and reach that far back. So that's the need for 'remote operation' from the head of the aisle at preferable main deck level.

My staging deck shelf will all be cantilevered out (about 14 inches of 3/4" plywood)) from the walls, so access to them should not be a real problem. Plus I think I have a method to make some of those staging shelf sections removable in big chunks for serious work on the underside of the maindeck just 8" overhead.

Cheap Methods for Manual Turnout Control

 ...a gentleman on another forum sent me references to a number of sites he found on the internet. i wanted to remember a few of them, so I experimented with making a copy of this site's discussion
https://www.model-railroad-infoguy.com/manual-turnout-control.html

Cheap Methods for
Manual Turnout Control.

Tortoise slow motion switch machines and other similar screw-type turnout controls are great, but they are an expensive solution when you have a bunch of switches to install.  Even twin-selenoid "snap" switches are expensive.

Bill Payne, fellow Nottawasaga Model Railroad Club member, had been looking at other ingenious, cheap solutions to the problem, both for his own layout and the club modular layout. He built a small section of benchwork to test his ideas.

Top view of turnout control

Bottom view of setup

Bill had experimented with two ideas: using a choke cable designed for snow blowers and grass cutting machines, and bicycle spokes that have a threaded end. Subsequently he and I installed a topside miniature microswitch control on a handmade turnout. I'll explain all three approaches in case this gives you a way of solving your own installation problems.

Choke cable method

Choke cable control

Previously, Bill had been involved with both model cars and boats and had picked up a number of tricks from the radio-control hobbyists. The most important, for our applications, is the use of linkages and collars to tie rods together.

Choke collar connection

Here you can see the collar that connects the cable to the linkage that controls side-to-side movement of the throwbar. The choke cable is cut to the length necessary. A collar can be used to join two pieces to make the cable longer. The other end of the choke cable connects to a slide switch mounted on an L-shaped aluminum bracket. A collar connects the choke cable to a wire that hooks into a hole in the top of the slide switch. The collar grips the two wires firmly as it is tightened. The collar is also from the RC hobby shop.

 The choke cable collar ties the cable to the actuating rod from the slide switch.

Threaded bicycle spoke

Threaded rod control

This is a closeup of the the threaded end of the bicycle spoke showing how it joins to the linkage. The linkage was bought at a store that sells radio-controlled (RC) models. For testing purposes the electrical wires are simply twisted together and are not intended to be a permanent solution. The throwbar linkage that passes through the plywood subroadbed is a piece of stiff wire in a tube. It is connected to the linkage by a piece of wire that is wrapped around both and soldered. An Eshleman Turnout Switch Point Link could also be used if you don't want to make your own. Topside the linkage can be centered between the points or off to the side on the throwbar.

Slide switch connection

Bottom of the turnout plate

One end of a bicycle spoke is threaded. The other end has a hook on it that you cut off to get the length of rod needed. The photo shows how the threaded rod connects to the linkage. The other image shows the other end of the bicycle spoke connected to the slide switch.

It helps to have access to a milling machine to cut the correct sized slots for the slide switch. You could also achieve a similar outcome using masonite if working metal is beyond your capability.  

The contacts on the slide switch can power the frog of the turnout and panel lights. 

If you use a slide switch with one set of contacts (like the miniature micro switch pictured later in this demonstration) you would either use the contacts to power the frog or to power a relay that could then power other accessories such as dwarf signals and panel lights.

Dwarf signal

For test purposes a nine-volt battery is used to demonstrate powering of panel lights and dwarf signals as well as the turnout's frog for power routing.

The contacts on the slide switch power both the frog and dwarf signals paralleled with panel lights.

Our Nottawasaga Model Railway club layout is a traveling modular layout so it is important to avoid toggle handles or other parts protruding from the benchwork that could snag on people's clothes or get jarred by someone inadvertently. Therefore, the decision was made to recess the slide switches.  

To do this it is necessary to cut a hole in the face board or fascia. By trial and error Bill found that a 2-inch round hole was sufficient to allow a person's finger to push or pull the slide switch activating lever.

Fascia front mounting plate

Fascia mounting holes

Closeup of fascia holes

The view above shows the holes in the front of the benchwork. Bill used grain of wheat bulbs to show in which direction the turnout was set. The choice of bulbs or LEDs would depend on what you want to use and how you want to power them. You could use the spare terminals on an inexpensive power pack or build your own power supply. Here the 12-volt bulbs burn dimly because they are only being powered by a nine-volt battery. Powering bulbs at less than their rated current will extend their life. 

A final installation would be much fancier, of course, with proper wire connectors and painted paneled fascia. The main point is that these methods work and most of the parts can be found in surplus stores. It also points out that it is a good idea to look at other departments in a hobby store for ideas that can help you build a better model railroad.

Top-mounted micro-switches

Bottom view of the micro switch with a single set of contacts

 Another problem we encounter with our  modular layout is that the carriers that are used to transport the layout do not provide a lot of clearance underneath the subroadbed for turnout controls. 

The newer sections under construction are being made with hand-laid track and  FastTrack turnouts. 

At a train show I saw a modeler demonstrating construction of these turnouts. He was using the leftover pieces of the FastTrack Twist Ties as a mounting surface for micro slide switches to activate the turnout's throwbar. Bill and I decided to experiment with a turnout that I had just constructed. We didn't mount it on cork but simply spiked it to a length of pine. We cut a small rectangle out of the Twist Ties scrap to clear the bottom contacts and hung it on the edge of the board.

Microswitch linkage

In practice, a hole would be drilled beside the turnout's throw bar that was large enough to clear the contacts. It could be slightly oversize to allow final positioning of the micro switch installed in its own Twist Ties plate (or a piece of styrene). As there is only one set of contacts you could choose to use them to power the turnout frog or to power a relay.

The main purpose of this experiment was to see if there was enough throw in the micro switch. We drilled a small hole sideways through the actuating lever and bent a length of fairly stiff brass wire to go from the lever to the throwbar. We had to gouge a small channel in the pine beneath the wire to allow free movement.

We found that there is just enough throw to move the points from one rail to the other on an HO scale turnout. An N gauge turnout would probably need a "Z" bend in a springier wire. S and O scale might work with larger slide switches, but we did not try to do this. Our experiments were restricted to HO gauge track. As we are building the HO turnouts by hand, it would be possible to narrow the gap slightly if we needed to in order to ensure the points firmly engage against each rail. There is also some leeway in the size of wire and the size of the hole that is drilled. We drilled a #56 hole and probably could have made the hole slightly smaller. We'll refine the method when we install the turnouts. The important thing is that we now know it works. We also thought the small handles on the slide switches could be disguised in the scenery by surrounding them with Woodland Scenics ground cover clumps or we could conceal them in battery boxes that could be lifted up when it was necessary to use the turnout. Those decisions still await us.

A 3rd experiment in manual turnout control

An article in the Jan-Feb 2009 issue of N Scale Railroading inspired Bill Payne to try the author's approach. The author, Phil Brooks, called his method TATeR: Toggle Actuated Turnout Rig.

The difficulty we face on our modules is that we can't have anything sticking out of the side panels of the carriers. Protrusions would interfere with loading the modules in the trailer we use to transport them. Also, we don't like things sticking into the aisles at train shows.

The article describes using DPDT toggles to throw turnouts. Typical are the large ones from Radio Shack (model 272-1533). Again, parts used in radio-control are employed. The idea is to drill a hole through the handle and connect a clevis to the toggle. A threaded rod goes from the toggle to the actuating mechanism. The distance of the throw is controlled by using 4mm and 8mm plastic beads that can be bought at craft stores.

Actuating toggle

It's easier to describe what we and the article's author did by using pictures. In this overview of Bill's test board, you see a typical HO turnout some arbitrary distance from the control toggle, and two dwarf signals. Bill decided to recess the actuating toggles below the top subroadbed. We could cut a round hole in the fascia to reach the toggle or we could cover the recessed area with a building.

This is a closeup of the toggle. Bill flattened the handle to make drilling the hole easier. Then he attached a clevis attached to a threaded rod. The threaded rod goes into a brass tube. You'll notice he has also added indicator lights on the "control panel" for visual identification of the aligned route.

Setup for wiring control

This is the underside of the mockup. The DPDT switch allows for powering the frog and operating a lighting circuit. For test purposes Bill has hooked up panel lights and two dwarf signals powered by a 9-volt battery.

He is powering the lights in parallel and is using mini-bulbs, not LEDs. You could use either, depending on the power supply. If the lights aren't lit, the turnout is not aligned. You could use a toggle that doesn't have a center-off position. This would eliminate the danger of derailments from a half open turnout.

Position indicator

Here you see the end of the rod where it connects to the vertical spring wire that runs from the turnout down through a brass tube. The purpose of the bead is to adjust for the amount of throw needed. Bill used a center-off DPDT. In this way you center the rails with the DPDT in the center-off position. Then adjust the throw so the points will rest snugly against the rail when the toggle is moved. You can add another bead or use a smaller bead. It's a clever technique that Phil Brooks figured out. This method will also work if you use a flexible radio-control cable when you can't position the toggle perpendicular to the turnout.

Other than buying some jewelry beads, Bill used what he had on hand in his "left over" drawer (he doesn't like to call it junk).

The parts only cost a few dollars per turnout. The parts list Phil Brooks included in his article were:

• DU-BRO 2-56 threaded push rod 12" or 30" long
• Radio Shack model 272-1533 DPDT heavy-duty center-off toggle switch (or equivalent)<
• DU-BRO 1/16" plated brass Dura-Collar (12 pack Cat. No. 595)
• Great Planes 2-56 threaded steel clevis (GPMQ 3791 (12 pack)
• Jewelry Shoppe medium 8mm crimp eyelet (30 pieces (or try Michael's or another craft store)
• 4 mm and 8mm plastic beads
• 1/16" brass tubing cut to length (or flexible cable for radio-control)
• .032" steel music wire, cut to length and bent into a crank shape
• wire shelving protective caps (optional)

Phil's article has a lot of explanatory pictures and suggestions. The important point, as Bill proved by duplicating Phil's experiment, is that the method is a practical solution for those who would like to build an inexpensive, manual turnout control.

Manual turnout control for
Fast Tracks hand-laid turnouts

At our train club we are building a new HO layout and had to decide what to use for manual turnout control for Fast Track turnouts. We wanted to build our own to save money but did not want to go to the expense of powering them electrically with servos, Tortoises or other such machines. Member John Houghton devised a method that is quite ingenious: he uses the springs that Peco makes for their turnouts and installs them sandwiched between styrene and the bottom of the throw bar. The throw bars can be moved by finger pressure.  A switch stand can be mounted on the throw bar to indicate position or a short piece of wire can be mounted outside the rail if one doesn't want to have fingers operating the turnout from between the rails.

Here is a pdf of John Houghton's detailed explanation of how to make a manual control for a Fast Track's turnout.

Brian, wholesale copying of

Brian, wholesale copying of content from other websites is not generally kosher.  It violates copyright rules of course, and you're also depriving the site you copied it from of the ad revenue they'd get if you just put the link in so people followed it.  (MR info guy does have ads on his site.)

Good Search !!

A gentleman from Canada sent me this internet search he performed from up there,...

https://ca.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=Model+railroad+remote+manual+turnout+control&fr=&type=rogers_pc_homerun_portal&ei=UTF-8&hsimp=yhs-rogers_001&hspart=rogers

Looks like he utilized Yahoo to do a search for "Model railroad remote manual turnout control"

Certainly turned out to be a much more 'productive search' for good sites than I get with a google search here in the USA?????
 

I'm no internet expert, but I think this new 'preferential ranking' of internet searches now allowed by our USA government is affecting this matter??