Marc

 

Find so much discussion about how to make turnout DCC friendly and especially old Shinohara turnouts, I have modified this pictures as a basic schematic for gaps, jump wire , and powering of frog and points.

Just ask to know if it's a good schematic or if you have remarks because I would share this schematic for help on the forum.

Thanks for your remarks,

 

The picture of a Shinohara turnouts show how I think to do it.

Gaps in the rail are done with the use of a jeweler saw, with the blade inserted between ties  like the Fastrack methods.

 

1. The small red points are where gaps are cut in the existing rails to isolate parts of the turnouts, like frog and points

2. The yellow tabs are where you need to put jump wires between stock rails and point rails.

3. Blue line are the wire which power the points and the frog to the good polarity ( using a relay, the toggles, frog juicer or motor turnouts contacts)

On the run whith my Maclau River RR in Nscale

Reply 0
Beaver11

The Issue is the points

Marc, the issue with your proposed wiring scheme is tying the point polarity to the changing frog polarity.  Given Shinohara's use of points soldered to bridging plates, that is your "best" option if you retain those bridging plates.  "Best" is not good, though.  Much better would be electrically isolating the points from each other and tying each point to its stock rail.  This requires both mechanical and electrical work.  The new hinges can be rail joiners for the point to closure rail attachment.  The point end could be done with a new printed circuit board tie with a gap (or two gaps for a stronger center) between the point rails.  

The electrical issue with point assemblies such as this Shinohara switch is that any bridging of the gap between the stock rail and point can cause a short.  It turns out our old DC-analog systems were far more tolerant of such shorts than DCC--usually because we use a number of very fast-acting circuit breakers or other electronic devices with DCC.  

Though almost all of my switches were either purchased as "DCC ready" or built that way, I did have to modify a Shinohara wye switch in the fashion I suggest.  It works quite well now.

 

Bill Decker, espeecascades.blogspot.com

Reply 0
joef

Yep, the points are a problem

Yep, the points are a problem because the old Shinohara design assumes the points are always one polarity. This unfortunately leaves the chance of a short at the points to be higher than we would like. Better is to remove the points assembly all together, then as Bill says, use a half rail joiner to re-attach the points to the closure rails, and solder a PC tie on as the new throwbar. You can respace the points to dimension P on the NMRA gauge, which looks much better as well. Then add jumpers between the stock rails and the closure rails (no gaps please), and also add fine copper wire jumpers between the closure rails and the points to ensure the points are always powered. It's a bit of work but the result is electrically solid turnouts that will give you zero trouble and never be a maintenance headache later due to poor conductivity issues or accidental shorts.

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

[siskiyouBtn]

Read my blog

Reply 0
ctxmf74

Try this first

   Just install it with insulated rail joiners at the two rail ends coming off the frog. That way the points switch polarity all the way thru the turnout. If your wheels are all in gauge they'll clear the points and not cause a short. These type turnouts were used this way for decades. If it doesn't work out as power routing you can remove the points and install them with an insulated throw bar,then decide how to gap and power the frog, but it's a lot more work and might be fixing something that's not broken.....DaveB

Reply 0
Marc

Thanks all

 

Thanks all for your remarks, sorry I don't know well this kind of turnout since I exclusively model in N scale and don't know the details of the construction and issues of these old turnouts.

In fact I made this quick sketche to show how to do them DCC friendly, because they are so much topics about old turnouts which are proposed on the forum and are still on the way right now.

I just find this could help many of us which are asking to use such old turnouts.

Course I have  suspect the point would give trouble like short knowing they are in "one assembly" without electrical isolation for each side, a bad ingenering for DCC use.

 

Rebuilding the point assembly seems the only way to make them safe.

 

In conclusion this is the work list,

 

1. Removing the whole point assembly, pop off the rivet tab, removing the throwbar

2. Unsolder the  small riveted  tab and dismantle the throwbar

3 . Joiners in place of the little riveted tab for the points and closure rails  and jump wire between them

4. A new throwbar, made of PC ties, point soldered with NMRA tolerances.

5. Jump wire between closure rails and stock rails

6. Isolate the frog with gap cut in the rails as show in the picture.

 

Remarks are sure welcome.

 

 

 

On the run whith my Maclau River RR in Nscale

Reply 0
trainman6446

Did that with an old curved

Did that with an old curved turnout, works great now.

Tim S. in Iowa

Reply 0
marcfo68

Here is how I resolved the

Here is how I resolved the issue using a portion of guitar strings and copper clad board cut to size. Mine were modified in 2008 and have worked without issue so far. I experimented with strait and looped bridges.  You can just make out the loops at the 9th tie from throw bar.

img.jpeg 

Gaps cut before and after frog. The black tie just before the frog is powering the point rails

img.jpeg 

Flip side

img.jpeg 

img.jpeg 

Some people said using guitar string would cause issues and derails. Never did. I did not trust rail joiners in the long run.

Reply 0
Reply