Steel Studs

When constructing my last layout, I did some sections, including a helix, with steel stud construction. I used 1-5/8" steel studs (about 40 mm). The framework was made from the steel studs and I used a 1/4" (6 mm) plywood skin on the top and bottom to construct a torsion box.

This is my helix framework before adding the second (bottom) skin.

Here is the framework for Conover, again before the bottom skin was attached. The bottom skin had holes in it between the frame members. The slots in the framework were for the shelf brackets I was using to support the layout.

Here is the joint between the two sections above showing the roadbed and track.

This method of construction does give a fairly strong, lightweight benchwork. It does have a couple of disadvantages.

1- Steel studs are kind of twisty. Technically, they lack torsional rigidity. That's why I had the skins. The skins provided torsional rigidity, while the steel studs resisted bending.

2- Protecting the wiring becomes an issue. That's why there is all of the plastic conduit in the second picture. You can't just drill a hole and stick the wire through it because it will wear through the insulation and short out.

3- The sharp, pointy, drywall screws proved to be a hazard while working on the section. Both to my fingers and to the wiring.

4- Bolting the studs together to make joints between the sections doesn't work very well. This is related to #1. If you look at the second picture, you can see where I had wood along the edge that joined the helix.

This construction may work well for what you want to do, but I suggest that you try a little bit of it to find out. After moving because of a job change I now have a very nice train room, with a house upstairs to keep the rain out. When I had the train room remodeled, I had the corners coved, so my backdrop will now be drywall and some of the sections of the layout will be cantilevered out from the wall. Construction is now entirely from 1/2" cabinet grade plywood, and there's no bottom skin. This makes adding switch machines and wiring to the bottom much easier and the cantilevered support works better with a plywood frame than it would with steel studs.

Here is what I did.

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/cyprr-steel-stud-benchwork-12199176

I am entirely satisfied with the long termperformance of this method.

It looks like a lot of work

It looks like a lot of work and new skills needed to build.  I'm comfortable with conventional wood benchwork and will stick with that.

some answers @Tim, arbe, jimfitch

Thank you all.

I had two questions

1) how to connect the frames toogether, edge to edge?

2) what with legs, connections, leveling?

@Tim

You are right in all 4 points. I don't count on any kind of the frame rigidity except of bending. I know how to calculate the member’s strength. (I’m structural engineer). You pushed me to think out of the box. Thanks again. I had in my mind those frames like modules (tables on four legs) and i wanted a way to conect them and keep them leveled on the floor in the loft which is uneven and not so rigid.

My profiles are stronger than yours with the ends of the flanges bended, so they are more stiff, but it isn't very important. I will support the frames on L consoles on the wall and L consoles on the floor frames. I'm sorry but i can't explain it better. I had rejected the use of any kind of wood or plywood, because it is more expensive, it demands sealing and more tools. So no wood. 

I have to stop talking and start building and take photos.

@arbe

I mentioned your article in my post. I inspired of your job, it is very innovative i think. Thanks, you pushed me to think out of the box too.

@jimfitch

Not really too much work and no special skills needed. The proof is that i chose this way, I’m a little bit lazy.

Thanks, you pushed me to prove it and i will do it.

Thank you all again, i'll be back.

Steel is great for bench

Steel is great for bench work. Here’s my experience if it’s helpful:  

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/new-shelf-layout-benchwork-12206657

wiring holes can be made safe by using a rubber bushing 

For module joints I am still working on the best approach. Was using quick clamps which was ok but rather temporary.  I recently gorilla glued a 1/2” plywood butt plate to the ends of adjacent modules, inserted some scrap wood into the “c” of the end steel stud, clamped the 2 modules together, and drilled 2x 5/16” holes for hex bolts and wing nuts. Working well so far as those modules won’t be moved much. Need a better solution for a more frequently moved “lift out” section I will be building soon. Leaning towards a notch and key kind of arrangement. The best approach for you will depend on how frequently you need to move the layout  

As far as legs go I have not used them - everything is on shelf brackets, for which I really like. The freemo community has some good plans for legs  you could search for

Jeff

@Jeff

Thank you. Nice, you are doing the frames like me. 
I will not move my layout often, but if i must to do it i want to be prepared. The connection with end plates seems the best for me. Maybe will be fine too with the scrap wood only.
The legs are not good when the floor is not stiff. I changed course, The shelf brackets are the best when you have a wall or other strong frame. I have a wall on the one side, the side with the 3 frames. For the 2 other sides i will do a variation of supporting structure you have in the middle of the room. (from the other post about the foam subroadbed)

And yes, those thin wall profiles are very handy and easy workable as it is demanded by their use in the drywalls and for the ceiling.
And now, give me the men and i'll do it. 

Metal heads unite

Right on Vasili... steel has not widely caught on (yet) but some of us have embraced it. Really looking forward to seeing your modules come together including construction techniques. Take some pics!

jeff

I have been using metal studs.....

...since 1991.  My dad saw metal studs being used in a remodel at his workplace, and suggested I look into using them for benchwork. I first used 2x4's but discovered 2x2's are strong enough to handle model RR benchwork.  I absolutely love using them and will NEVER go back to wood! 

Ken L

Ken L - yours was one of the

Ken L - yours was one of the examples that showed me the possibilities of this method and I thank you for it. 

Jeff

Joining Modules

Hi there,

I've worked with this stuff in the building industry and have a suggestion for you.

Where  you have the two modules joining, put plywood behind the steelwork and screw (and glue?) it tightly. You can then use this to make bolted connections in various ways that are more resillient to use. Such as having a threaded screw anchor on one side and the appropriate sized steel insert as a guide for the bolt on the other side.

Any good?

Must dash. Gem

@jimfitchNot really too much

I've got a comfort level with wood, and like that you can put drywall screws in just about anywhere at almost any angle; it seems with metal studs, not so much.  I've also noticed they can be very twisty - at least until stabilized - most wood I use is pretty stiff already before it is in a frame configuration.  You may have answers for those things, but I still like what I like and what's more, I saved all the bench-work from my last layout and am going to re-use it all rather than replace it with something new I have never used.  Fear of the unknown?  Possibly.

Since my wife and I are having to learn all kinds of new things to do home upgrades (kitchen cabinets, tile back splash, deck, and many other things, I guess you could say that's using up all my CPU cycles or spare brain cells right now!  Maybe I'm avoiding new things cause I'm a bit lazy too!  

@Gemma

Thanks Gemma. The threaded anchor is a good idea. 
For now i'm not gonna to construct really modules that we have to move often.

@jimfitch

I haven't any habits in benchwork yet,  neither tools for the wood.
I understand that everyone choose the way that fits to him. No problem with that. The confrontation about which is better wood or steel,is not a problem if the purpose is to help us to find the best. The only problem is when we are paving one way roads and spreading superstitions. 
Each material have their rules, pros and cons. I suppose you agree with that.

The wood is not such a tough guy as the steel. 
If i had been driven by the logic "what is the most used for the benchwork is the only good", then i could  to say that  the wood is only good for furnitures, fireplaces and termite's food, because is not used for heavy structures anymore.
No one from the "wood club" didn't do "crash tests" of the wooden benches, neither provided any calculations of strength in relationship with weight and price. Sometimes i have the feeling that is running a "'sealing quest" because the moisture and the temperature hurts the bench and then the rr turns out in a roller coaster, etc
Maybe i will provide some data about the steel benchwork, but I haven't any ambition to recruite members in a steel benchwork club.

No offense here. I took the chance to mention some aspects. I have to do this statement because of that we don't know each other and my english might be misunderstood.

Let's be happy about having choices.

Glad to see you try it.

I  for one am glad to see you try it.  I’ve been in commercial construction 30 years where metal studs are the norm. With a little planning anything a person can do with wood they can do with metal cheaper and lighter.   Just remember to use fine thread fasteners for every connection. Coarse thread will not work. Depending on gauge you buy will determine self drilling ( normally called self tapping in error) or just a pointed screw.  High number thin  low number thick  24 guage tinfoil,16 ga  park a car on it  

I’m not quite sure I understand your questions to help more. For things like the leveling, Put the leg on the “ hard” side of the stud.  Move it to level and put a screw in it. Just keep reminding yourself the majority of benchwork is overthought. Keep it simple it will work.  You will actually never need to drive a car on it or hang a porch swing from it.   Once your framing has a “skin” on it it will be rigid. 

Good luck

steve

Steel studs

Hi,

Be sure to use quality steel studs. We tried using studs from Home Depot or Lowes and the metal was so thin it would deflect when trying to run a screws and the screw would angle off to the side. Even when we tried a pilot the drill would deflect the thin metal and slip off to the side.  We tore it down and went back to wood.

We later learned contractors use better quality steel studs.  We didn't know there was a difference.

Ed

foam core

What about using foam core as the torsional stiffener??

I'm not familiar with the

Hi steve
I'm not familiar with the screw gauges, can you provide a link with the dimensions?
I'm using self drilled screws for thin sheet steel. i don't remember the diameter but is small and is the appropriate for 0.6mm sheet thickness. I have no concern about the strength. 
I rejected the solution with legs, i'll use self-bracket supports. Thanks anyways.

Hi Ed I use the right tools

Hi Ed
I use the right tools and the right fasteners and i haven't any problem.
The fifth image.
http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/21016
/> In the case of drywall board mounting, the screw is "guided" by the board and there isn't need for support the metal stud. For more easiness you can use a screw guide.
I hope you will try again in the future. It’s a nice material.
​have fun

Hi TC, The torsional stiffnes

Hi TC,
The torsional stiffnes of a modul or of a bench? What you have in mind as torsion? 
I'm asking because i've noticed in many discusions that there is a wrong mixing of in plane stiffness and torsional stiffness. Anyway the  50mm extruded polystyren is too strong in each direction, when we are talking about the usual spans for the MRR. Any one can try it. 
The supporting frames and module frames have to support the foam board as the connection of legs to the board is not a good idea. Also frame keeps the foam board flat, protects the edges, gives the abillity to connect the frames together, supports the fascia and the background. We build benches for MRR, not real bridges. The foam is strong and stable. We have to only keep it in a level from the floor and in case of  modules on connectable frames.

I hope i will find the time to write something complet as possible about the frame's stiffness and the foam regarding the model railroading.

have fun

For the past 25+ years...

...this is the only screw I have used to fasten steel studs together, and I never have had any issues:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Grip-Rite-1-2-in-Self-Drilling-Truss-Screws-1-lb-Pack-MTD080121/100198237

FWIW, 

Ken L.

Steel studsSat, 2018-07-28

Hadn't realized that, but then again I'm not using this material but rather a much heavier gauge steel construction method,....I'll outline it soon in a subject thread I started about steel benchwork.

I have used...

...the thinner gauge 2x2 steel studs and track and never have had a problem.  Using Self-starting modified truss screws work great.  I also went on ebay and bought a used 3/4" hole punch which I would HIGHLY recommend and then I used plastic Grommets.  Though you can use a drill, a punch is so much easier.  Something like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GREENLEE-MODEL-709-METAL-STUD-PUNCH-7-8-HOLE-20-GA-MILD-STEEL/352410230181?epid=1201576914&hash=item520d495da5%3Ag%3ANu8AAOSwMv5bUfRL&_sacat=0&_nkw=steel+stud+hole+punch&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313

I was lucky as mine had a buy-it-now price.  I think I ended up paying $80 for it, depending on how large your empire is.  If it's jsut hte two modules then maybe a hole saw will do the job.  But if you're doing a room sized layout, i think the expense is worth it.  Not to buy a new one (they cost several hundred $$$$!) But a used one I find is an invaluable tool.  As I said, I don't know how big your RR empire is going to be. 

Regardless how you punch the holes, for ANY wiring you need to use a reliable grommet.  Something that snaps in place.  I was using some small red ones but they constantly fell out, and exposed the wire.  So I use THESE instead now, and I never have had a failure:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/3-4-in-ACC-Snap-In-Bushing-10-Pack-27252/202077087
/>
So FWIW,

Ken L. 

Wire holes

I use these - under $20 all in

https://m.harborfreight.com/titanium-high-speed-steel-step-bit-set-3-pc-60379.html

https://m.harborfreight.com/180-piece-harness-grommet-set-67582.html

I first used a step drill...

...to drill out those holes.  Now for one or two, or even up to say six modules, sure that will get the job done, but after that, you will need to buy a new one.  I would get through about 24-30 studs (granted each stud needed three holes to help how i wanted to organize so that's up to 90 holes) and it would no longer efficiently drill through, and I have yet to find a way to sharpen a step drill.  This is why I went with the punch as I had over 650 holes to punch!   So it depends on the size of the job.  Small apartment shelf type layouts, sure, the Harbor Freight step drill should last long enough to get the job done.  But for those who have a much larger layout in mind, buying a used hole punch is much easier (though you have to pre-punch the holes before installing, but I would pre-drill before installing it in the benchwork as you may find later you have access issues with either tool.

FWIW.

Ken L.