Pelsea

Recently, I posted this picture of a little house on a What's on Your Workbench? thread.

GUT-01k.jpg 

I mentioned that I wanted to add a gutter to this porch, but was having trouble. The kit came with a couple of sections of gutter embossed into a single chunk of aluminum foil, but I destroyed them trying to cut the curved section out of the foil. Early experiments in forming my own gutters produced comedy and humiliation, but nothing usable. I received several suggestions on how to do the job, and by combining that advice (Thanks gang!) with a lot of trial and error, I came up with a method.

Steps to follow.

pqe

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Pelsea

Steps

Material

Steal a disposable aluminum bake pan from the cook's stash in the pantry. Look for one with enough flat material on the bottom to supply the need. Cut it up until you have a piece the length needed and an inch wide.

Tools

Gut-01a.jpg 

  • The main tool is a form for the gutter. I made one by soldering a piece of 1/16" brass wire to a length of 0.025" brass sheet. I just used ordinary rosin core solder and my soldering station set at 750°. It is imperative that the wire remain straight. File off any stray solder.
  • To form the gutter, I use a piece of plastic with a 5/64" notch in one end. (It's circled in red, I forgot to line it up neatly for this picture.) I made the notch with a Dremel rotary file. The notch should more or less hug the wire, but need not be a precise fit.
  • I also use a dentist's burnisher to finish forming the gutter. (Most dentists have a box of broken tools they will let you rifle through. Since most tools are double ended, the unbroken side is perfectly usable.) You could substitute a tiny crochet hook for this.
  • More standard tools are a scissors, a straight edge, a razor saw (narrow Zona blade  preferred), and a roll of double stick tape.

Method

First, place a piece of double stick tape on one side of the form. (Left side for the right handed.) The tape should be longer than the foil. Leave about 1/8" clearance between the tape and wire:

GUT-01b.jpg 

Use the straightedge and razor saw as an impromptu brake to fold the foil at a right angle. The crease need not be perfectly centered or parallel to the edge, but no wrinkles allowed. (The back bar on the saw helps line up the crease.)

GUT-01c.jpg 

Set the folded foil against the wire on the form. The tape will hold it in place:

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Form the foil over the wire with fingers first:

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Then use the notched plastic to get a good sharp crease on the right side:

GUT-01f.jpg 

Now you will see the foil wants to pop up on the right side. Carefully slide another piece of tape onto the form under the flap of foil, which should remain free. (Again, there should be some clearance between the tape and wire.) Then use the dentist's burnisher to finish the right side of the gutter, pressing the foil into the tape.

GUT-01g.jpg 

The final phase is to cut the bent section of foil free using the razor saw. Keep the saw vertical and cut slowly.

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Eventually, the half tube of foil will pop free. Cut the other side and you are done. Here are a couple of tries:

GUT-01i.jpg 

The edge looks a bit ragged under 4X magnification, but is good enough for me.

And here is a gutter in place.

GUT-01j.jpg 

Now for the tricky bit, making downspouts.

pqe

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Patrick Stanley

Slick

Looks Good !

Do you think heavy duty aluminum foil would work, or its's not thick enough ?

Espee over Donner

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Pelsea

Heavy duty foil

I tried heavy duty foil from the grocery store, but the results were too flimsy for my shaky hands. (HD foil isn't as heavy duty as it used to be.)

pqe

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Pelsea

Downspout

Actually, it wasn't hard to make, just a piece of bent wire. (I have a nice set of wire benders, thanks to Greg Poth.)

GUT-02a.jpg 

Of course getting it mounted involved some comedy, as I glued the thing to my fingers (twice) and knocked the gutter off three times. Guess that proves the gutter will stand up over time.

pqe

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dehanley

Foil gutters

Great technic.

Don Hanley

Proto-lancing a fictitious Erie branch line.

2%20erie.gif 

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Eugene Griffin EGRX

My latest venture needs

My latest venture needs gutters and downspouts and this will work great.

Just curious if you tried copper foil?

Eugene

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Pelsea

Copper foil

I have not tried copper foil. I tried some 0.005” brass, but it is too stiff to burnish flat. I suspect the trade off between thickness and ductility is always going to leave us with pretty fragile pieces.

What we really need is some enterprising tool and die maker to sell a set that would let us just hammer the pieces we need.

pqe

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Craig Townsend

Aluminum cans?

Aluminum cans might work as well. I used aluminum cans anealled on a bbq before running through a paper crimper for a large scale corrugated siding. Craig
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Jackh

Scale?

Wondering what scale you are working with here? I have several buildings that I would love to try this on.

Thanks, Jack

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pipopak

Cutting the foil...

with a sharp blade should be easier and neater.

Jose.

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Pelsea

Scale..

This is HO scale. I’m trying to get a gutter about six scale inches across.

Xacto knives were the first thing I tried. The cut was ragged and distorted the gutter, with both straight and curved blades. I haven’t tried the tape in combination with a knife, though. I’ll try that tomorrow.

I’m not sure I could get a can flat enough to work.

pqe 

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kcsphil1

neat trick

I like the pan bottom idea - and I am guessing you could get more modern squarish gutters this way too using a different center rod.

Wonder if it will scale down to N?

Philip H. Chief Everything Officer Baton Rouge Southern Railroad, Mount Rainier Div.

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J. Kluth

Maybe try a rotary cutter?

A rotary cutter (used for fabric) works like a pizza slicer. It has a circular blade that rotates as you draw it across whatever you are cutting. I just tried it on a piece of foil and it produced a clean, sharp edge. They only cost about $10, and the blades are replaceable.y_cutter.jpg 

Always looking to learn,

Jay K.

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Pelsea

More research..

I made a Train Shop run and bought some alternate materials to try-- aluminum foil, copper foil, and brass shim. I also bought a piece of plastic tube (ABS I think) that is 0.2 square with a 0.15" round center. I sliced one side off of a two inch piece to make a former with a slot:

GUT-03a.jpg 

(I cut the tube on a Micromart mini table saw.) I found that this shape does a fine job of forming the gutter without the need for burnishing. It will also work with narrower piece of foil, a bit of a money saver there. 

Here's a rundown of how the materials behaved:

  • Copper 0.0015" foil-- this formed well, and could be neatly cut with a knife, but is very fragile. Maybe someone will be brave enough to try this in N scale.
  • Aluminum 0.003"  foil-- This forms well, and can be knife cut with some difficulty. The razor saw is cleaner. It is still on the flimsy side, but someone with steadier hands than mine may prefer it.
  • Aluminum 0.004" pan bottom-- The new former makes this go faster, but it definitely needs a saw to cut. It's right on the border of what I can handle.
  • Brass 0.003" shim-- This is my new favorite. It's a little stiff in the form, but a tap with a light mallet finishes it nicely. Brass definitely needs a saw-- in fact the coarser Zona, but it makes a durable part. The corse blade leaves a bit of rag on the edge, but I can hold a finished section in the plastic notch to sand it.
  • Brass 0.005" shim-- This won't take a full bend on this rig, it comes off the form with a slightly flattened shape (even after a thorough hammering). If you wanted to make O scale gutters, it might be the material of choice.

I'll see if I can chase one of those rotary gadgets down.

pqe

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Craig Townsend

Flat cans

When you annealing the can, it flattens. I cut both ends off with a band saw, than cut with scissors the tube. Place the tube on a high heat bbq (or oven if you want to stink the house), wait about 5 minutes and remove. Craig
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