Interesting Scott

I am really looking forward to this Scott. Sounds very interesting. I had planned on using Caboose Industries Ground Throws mounted on the top edge of a 1x3 mounted to the side of the fascia but the G Scale turnout throws sound pretty cool.

Tim

Some photos of the construction…

 John had some scrap aluminum "L" channel for use as the bracket.

 He cut the channel on a table saw slowly with a carbide blade (set as low as possible). We then used a file to remove the burrs and drill the screw holes.

 The wood throw arms were made from scrap pine cut to length and then a rabbet was cut into each piece. 

  Once cut each piece was sanded and then drilled for the swing screw, throw arm screw, and wire connector hole at the bottom. 

 Here’s a shot of the finished throw arm from the front…

 …and the side.

 The stands will sit on a platform shown here which will be attached to the layout fascia. The music wire will connect to the small set screw you can see on the underside of the throw and then will go through the fascia to the wood throw arm under the turnout. 

 Here’s how the final setup will look. 

The G-scale stands have a channel lock feature just like the prototype, so I’ll be able to adjust the throw distance to provide just enough pressure to seat the points firmly against the stock rails. 

It’s nice to have good friends who give of their time and talents to help keep a layout progressing. Thanks, John!

Looks

pretty much like FastTracks' bullfrogs.  And for the price of the bullfrog and the time of construction and the number of materials you are using, I would think the bullfrog would be more efficient?

Costs in time and money

Thanks for the comment, Dave.

I looked at the Bullfrog and it’s a very nice product. An unassembled Bullfrog costs $7 plus you still would need to purchase the cables that Fast Tracks supplies or use your own wire. 

My approach cost me around $4 per unit which includes the wire. It ended up being that cost because we used stainless steel hardware for better movement, so it could even be cheaper if one used less expensive nuts, bolts, and washers. Assembling each unit was super simple. The Bullfrog is not complicated but it still would require more time to build. 

Here’s a comment from John:  “the main reason to go with a custom setup is because there is more precision. By engineering the pivot arm length to match the throw of the switch stands, the distance needed to move the points is more accurate.”

I want the most realistic movement between the switch stand and the points, so this made sense to me.

Gotcha

That's what makes this hobby great - no one solution fits all and we're free to come up with our own home-brewed solutions.  I just assumed your solution would have cost more like $10-12 per turnout, so for $4, you can't go wrong.

  "so for $4, you can't go

does $4 include the cost of the brass G scale switchstands?  How would you do it without them? .....DaveB 

Nope…

Stands not included. Now that would be a deal!

You don’t have to use the stands as the turnout throws could be controlled by a simple fascia handle. It’s the throw itself that’s the focus. 

I forgot to mention that I’m controlling the polarity of the turnout frog with Tam Valley Frog Juicers, so there’s no need to have an electrical switch with the throw mechanism.

Just curious, but..........

what's the reason for using an expensive Frog Juicer when a micro switch will control the frog polarity.  It would be very easy to trigger off the piano wire.

Electronic ease

Hi Michael,

First of all, I’m a sucker for any electronic gadget. But more importantly, I want bullet proof reliability on my layout which features short wheel base engines. The frog juicers fit the bill for electronic ease and super reliability. 

When I was considering whether to purchase the juicers or use a conventional switch, I saw this video and was convinced to make the investment:

Running against the points...

On the prototype, particularly in yard limits, it is possible to run against a turnout, leading to a derailment. If you do this on a model with switched crossing vees, then the engine will create a short and come to a stop. In DC, this is all that will happen, but with DCC it can lead to to system shut down, with all sound-equipped engines re-initiating their start-up sequence. A frog juicer, whilst more expensive, takes out the impact of two-rail wiring from operating, and gets us another step closer to things happening as they do on the prototype.

@Simon

You're spot on about the advantage of Frog Juicers in helping to prevent DCC system shutdown due to a short circuit on a frog. 

Michael and I have this ongoing and friendly debate about Frog Juicers, which to my thinking are a great value and not all that expensive when the cost of material for an analog method and the "fiddly time" consumed to make it work reliably are compared fairly.

Just a point of information, the term "yard limits" is not used in reference to yards or Other Than Main Track trackage. Yard Limits is that portion of main track designated with signage and in the timetable.

"Yard Limits: A portion of the main track, designated by yard limit signs and timetable, train order Form T, or track bulletin, which trains and engines may use as prescribed by Rule 93."

"GCOR 6.13 Yard Limits: Within yard limits, trains or engines are authorized to use the main track not protecting against other trains or engines. Engines must give way as soon as possible to trains as they approach. Engines must keep posted as to the arrival of passenger trains and must not delay them.

All movements entering or moving within yard limits must be made at restricted speed unless operating under a block signal indication that is more favorable than Approach."

I pulled the GCOR rule directly from BNSF's employee website.

Scott, sometimes . . .

. . . it's kinda fun just to watch the LEDs on the Frog Juicer go from one color to the other when a locomotive cause the frog polarity to flip. 

Hex Frog Juicers

I just installed two more Tam Valley Hex Frog Juicers. Each Hex Frog Juicer can power six frogs. They are super easy to install. Just two wires from the bus and one wire going out to each Frog. All wires can be connected to the juicer with just a small screw driver. For turnouts already installed and ballasted in place I simply solder a wire to the outside of the Frog away from the operating isle so it is disguised from the normal viewing angle. Simple and extremely effective.

Tim G

Cost of juicers

Since I only have 10 turnouts on my layout, purchasing Frog Juicers was a no-brainer. 

For those with many more turnouts I can see the hesitation on using them. 

Bullfrogs

Hi Scott:

As you know (because you read my blog on the switch stands), I use the Bullfrogs from Fast Tracks and I'm really happy with them. I did not use the included micro switches for frog polarity because I too used Frog Juicers (which, as Rick Green noted in a recent segment on TMTV, "Sound like the worst job at Orange Julius" - but I digress.)

I also did not use the Bullfrog's over centre locking mechanism - accomplished with a ball bearing and a spring, and used to prevent points from drifting away from the stock rails - because the switch stands feature a lock.

I returned all of these parts to Tim Warris at Fast Tracks so he could repackage them into other Bullfrogs - but I wonder if it's possible to do a deal with him to buy Bullfrogs without these parts in the first place? Perhaps a bulk order. You have found a solution - but others might consider that.

Cheers!

- Trevor

PS: And a reminder, people can find lots of information about how I use these same switch stands by visiting my blog. Here's the filter that returns all posts related to turnout control. Enjoy if you visit!

---

Running Through a Switch

When you run through a switch that is not lined properly you are likely to derail and cause a short even though the frog juicer has made the frog polarity correct. What we need is a frog juicer that also aligns the points properly.

Mark Vinski

Turnout Thows

Very effective and they look like a lot of fun to use.  The late Don Cassler used recessed Caboose throws on his M&K Division of the B&O to control hand-throw turnouts; one or more throw would be in a nice cut-out of the facia with trim edging.  There was also a microswitch somewhere in the linkage to power the frog.  Don's was the first such application I ever saw like this, and most were retro-fits.  Although my railroad has machines on many "hand throw" (that is, non-interlocked "power" switches), I can appreciate "bending the iron", or "bending the nickel-silver".

Final switch stand solution

Now that I have all the switch stands installed and operating, here is the final look and setup. I'm repeating this from another thread a while back. 

 

I use brown spring door stops to act as protection so an operator doesn't snap off a stand. I wanted a more open look than using either wood or plexi protectors. 

My original simple wood arms to throw the points didn't work out as they were too difficult to adjust, so I developed a new system using brass rod, RC control cables, and a spring. Below are two photos that show the components and the setup under the layout. The RC cable has an adjustable screw that allowed me to easily adjust for proper throw distance for the points. The system works great and holds the points firmly against the stock rails. Plus, an operator is required to slightly overextend the switch throw arm when moving it just like the prototype does.

Supply for Brass Switchstands

This is a great idea, and the timing is right as I just about to get started building.

Wondering where you are getting the Brass Switch Stands, and also, how much can they be bought for?

I will need 14 Switch Stands.  If too much $ I may use the Humpyard Switch Stands I already have.

Just starting an HOn3 Modular (TOMA) layout in my bedroom at the retirement Home

It will be 18 inches wide X 21 Feet long.  L shaped, down 2 walls.  Modeling the Chili Line. (Sort of)

Thanks for any info.

A different approach.

And one that I would like to try. I found this online, provided by "John Saxon" quite a few years ago. The picture I'm posting is of the slide switch itself. Because that's where I got confused.

 
How does the target change/or swivel? I've never seen a slide switch that rotates. So I'm thinking that when you push the slide switch, you also manually rotate the target. ?? Is that what happens? Or is there a special slide switch that rotates as you slide it?

Re: A different approach.

IIRC, John rotated the target by hand after pushing/pulling the switch.

Wow!

Thank you, DonM. Talk about "simple". Now I know I can do that. It may have thrown me off by what John did with rounding off the switch. He stated if you buy a rectangular switch, you ? could or should ? grind it to be round. I got thrown by that. Why bother with grinding? Just drill a hole and stick a target in it. K.I.S.S.

John rotated the target by hand after pushing/pulling the switch

Actually that's how i use my Caboose switch stands too. They have a small gear rack that is intended to rotate them but I find they are not always 90 degrees when turned so I just align the target with the track after throwing the lever. Often I don't even bother with the switch stand lever, I just leave the lever in the middle position and slide the points over with the throw bar then align the target.  My point throw bars have enough drag on the bottom of the stock rails to stay snugged against them without any spring pressure..  .....DaveB