richhard444

I need help in a SIMPLE way to wire the EB-1 circuit breakers into my layout. I am using CVP system and currently have the layout split into 2 districts. I now want to split each district into 3 additional sub districts. I have the boards, looked at the instructions and am confused as how to wire them into the layout the instructions only show how to wire one board into the track, but what about the additional two. I know that I have to gap the rails to separate the districts, but what about the track bus lines do they need to be cut, if so how does the power get to the boards and then to the track. I would greatly appreciate any and all help, especially a simple drawing on how to do this.

Thanks

Richard

Richard - Superintendent CNW Peninsula Div.

blog - https://mrhmag.com/blog/richard_harden

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

District spilt?

Dear Richard,

Before we being, can you confirm how you are currently doing the 2 "districts"?

Is each "district" powered by it's own booster,
(Correct)

OR

have you already got some form of individual circuit breaker/Bulb for each of the two "districts"?
("fudge factor" way of doing it, technically not "powered districts" in the correct sense)

Also, from the NCE EB1 manuals it appears the unit is literally a "inline" (1-IN / 1-OUT) device,
may I ask what part of the wiring plan is causing confusion?

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

Start at the beginning...

Dear Richard,

Starting at the beginning, the following shows the basic anatomy of a District / Sub-District configuration.

 

If this makes sense, we can proceed. Please advise.

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

Extrapolated out...

Dear Richard,

If the above makes sense,
and you have the whole "District --> Sub-district --> Sub-district Track Buss --> Feeders" path clearly in mind, 
then wiring up multiple District/sub-districts is just a case of "rinse and repeat" as many times as required.

In the case of your "2x District, where each District has 3x Sub-districts" configuration,
I expect it will end up looking something like below...

 

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Reply 0
richhard444

Sub-District Wiring

Hi Prof Klyzir

#1 Answer - Yes both of the main districts are on their own boosters with no additional sub-district circuit breakers.

#2 - So your second wiring example would be the one that I would use. It appears to me that I would bring a pair of wires out from the booster to a terminal block and then run a set of track bus wires to each of the EB-1s input side and then from the output side out to the sub-district track. My intention is to break-up of the main district sections into just three sub-districts (I want to isolate each of the towns and some tracks on either side of that town)  Would you recommend that I put the EB-1s on a panel close to the booster and then run the track feeders to the sub-districts. Or put the EB-1s closer to the sub-district section it controls and then run the input wires from the booster to the input side of the EB-1s. In either case what would be the recommended wire size to do this? When I wired the layout originally I put drops on EVERY piece of track no matter how long it was. I used 20 gage wire for the drops and 14 gage for the bus lines.

Another question I would have for you while I have your attention - Do I have to do anything special with the "Wye" that would be in a sub-district or can I just incorporate them into the sub-district that they are in? Have you had any experience with the EB-1 circuit breaker, if so is there anything I would need to be aware of or do they operate good right from the box?

Thank you for your response and the information. I kinda thought that what you show in the second wiring example was what I was going to have to do.

Thanks again

Richard

 

Richard - Superintendent CNW Peninsula Div.

blog - https://mrhmag.com/blog/richard_harden

Reply 0
Lavon S

NCE EB-1

Hello Richard, I was reading this blog and wanted to give you some info that might help.  I just bought the NCE EB-1, and learning how to use it. I have a Digitrax system. I had to modify the EB-1

 

I found is on the web. It is from Mark Gurries.  Here is the link:   

https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/home/nce-info/nce-accessories/nce-dcc-circuit-breakers/eb1-info

Mark tells you how to set the EB-1 up.  I had to lengthen the timing of when the Digitrax booster goes into a short. 

To answer your question in were to put the EB-1, I put mine right at the booster, that way the breakers would be together. 

Thanks

Lavon 

 
Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

Simplify

Dear Richard,

In order of appearance:

Quote:

It appears to me that I would bring a pair of wires out from the booster

Yes

Quote:

to a terminal block

Or similar "1-IN / 3-OUT" situation, yes

Quote:

and then run a set of track bus wires to each of the EB-1s input side

Yes, although it should be clarified that "Track buss wires" is taken to mean wires of same-gauge/current-capacity as the existing "Track buss".

"Track Buss Wires" in this case does Not mean the Actual Existing Track Buss!

Quote:

and then from the output side (PK: Of each Sub-district EB-1) to the (PK: relevant) sub-district track (PK: buss).

Please re-read the sentence above INC the edits.
If I understand correctly, what you have at the moment is:

 

NOTE! Any Frog-juicers / turnout switching / Wye-reversers / turntable reversers etc etc
are and should-be located between the labelled horizontal Red/Blue "Track Buss" wires and the associated trackage.

IE the vertical thin-arrow "feeders" represent both "normal wire feeders"
and "anything traditionally wired between the Track Buss and the actual rails"

Compare the above with where you're aiming-for as shown below,

 

 

and you should notice that
- the previous "district track buss" is still in place,
- all of the existing track feeds (and associated turnout / wye / turntable / frog switchgear) is still in place,

It's just that the previously-continuous "District ?" Track buss has been strategically cut so as to be split into 3x shorter "sub districts", each fed by their own EB-1.

The point being, if your wye-system already works,

and whatever circuitry/switchgear you have feeding the wye is located between the existing District track-buss and the rails,

then it should continue working exactly the same way under the proposed "sub-district" configuration.

Quote:

Would you recommend that I:

Option 1 - put the EB-1s on a panel close to the booster
and then run the track feeders to the sub-districts.

Or

Option 2 - put the EB-1s closer to the sub-district section it controls
and then run the input wires from the booster to the input side of the EB-1s.

Either way would work from a electrical perspective,
as long as the wire used is the same gauge/size as the existing Booster --> Track Buss.

Leave the "smaller wire" purely for the final short Track Buss --> Rail feeder-connections.

As noted by Lavon, it may make logical sense to group all of the "power breaker" gear in a centralised place.

IE locate the EB-1s close to the boosters,
and run seperate heavy-wire connections from each EB-1 to it's respective "sub-district track buss".

However, the extra cable length between the actual layout and the EB-1s may affect their trip-current levels and behaviour. For reliable EB-1 operation, I would tend to want to locate the EB-1s at/near the centre of each sub-district track-buss run.

In practical terms, whether the EB-1(s) are closer to the booster(s), 
or closer to the layout/Track-buss,
we're still talking 3x discrete large-wire direct cable-runs per district.

and that's a $$$ and physical-install cost you have to factor.


Personally, I would:
- Locate the existing District Booster --> District Track-buss heavy-wire feed

- Disconnect it from the existing District Track-buss

- Run a Heavy-wire "Booster-Buss" in parallel with the District Track-buss around the layout

- Connect the old "Booster Feed" to the New "Booster Buss.

- Split the existing "district length" track buss into 3x smaller "sub-district length" track busses

- Physically place the EB-1s so that each EB-1 is approx 1/2 way along it's related "Sub-District Track Buss"
(IE the EB-1s are at/on the layout, not at the centralised"Booster Power Desk")

- then connect the EB-1 between the new "Booster Buss" (EB-1 Input) and the newly-separated "Sub-district Track Buss" (EB-1 output)

 

I'm working on the basis that a single "District Booster Buss" run at the layout-end is going to be easier and cheaper (less linear wire required) than adding multiple parallel duplicated long-length Booster --> EB-1 direct wire feeds,

and with a "Booster Buss" available most anywhere,
adding new/additional "sub-districts" later becomes a doddle.

Quote:

what would be the recommended wire size to connect each new EB-1 to the relevant Booster and Sub-district Track-buss? When I wired the layout originally I put drops on EVERY piece of track no matter how long it was. I used 20 gage wire for the drops and 14 gage for the bus lines.

The EB-1s are above the Track buss in terms of signal path, and thus should be wired with "heavy/thick wire".

Keep the "light/thin wire" solely for Track-buss --> Rail feeders

Quote:

Do I have to do anything special with the "Wye" that would be in a sub-district

No, you should not have to change any of the turnout / frog / wye / turntable "switchgear" wiring located between the current "district length" track buss and the actual rails.

As above, all you are doing is segmenting the existing "district length track buss" into 3x shorter "sub-district track busses". 

Of course, you will need to keep things like wyes in mind when making the decision as to where to cut/split the existing district trackbuss. It would be advisable to avoid having a wye or similar straddle a sub-district <> sub-district gap.

I hope this helps...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

 

Reply 0
richhard444

NCE EB-1 Wiring

To Prof Klyzir

I want to thank you for the great information and time you took to provide these SIMPLE wiring schematics for me. Hopefully others can/will profit by this info.

One other question I would have and that is - I have been reading other post in regards to these EB-1 Circuit Breakers. Some comments have stated that they don't work well right out of the box as to Loco's with sound decoders. Statements made to the effect that these EB-1 breakers need to be reprogrammed to trip properly. In your or anybody else experience is this the case? Or does it only apply to a Digitrax system. I use EasyDCC for CVP Products

Thanks again

Richard

Richard - Superintendent CNW Peninsula Div.

blog - https://mrhmag.com/blog/richard_harden

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

EB-1 setup

Dear Richard,

Time for some reading...

Mark Gurries EB-1 setup info/guide

https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/home/nce-info/nce-accessories/nce-dcc-circuit-breakers/eb1-info

Should give you everything you need...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Reply 0
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