Looking for T5 LEDs . . .

I bought a bunch of T5HO self-contained fluorescent fixtures from an eBay supplier about eight years ago. They have a very slim profile and good output. They were very nice-looking products with a good complement of available accessories (e.g.,  slim-profile J-box kits, etc.), and daisy-chained, end-to-end for a clean install. However, most of them have failed since then.

The problem is finding a reliable product not from eBay. Home Depot only carries LEDs in overly warm color temperatures. My preferred color temperature is 6,500K. I'm looking for a new solution as well.

Since consumer-oriented retailers tend to only stock warm color-temperature LEDs, you have to look elsewhere. Thanks to the legalized pot-growing industry, 6,000-6,500K LED fixtures are a popular item among hydroponic growers suppliers. I'm checking there now . . .

T8 LED bulbs

https://www.batteriesplus.com/light-bulb/led/tubular-(t)/g13?q=t8%20led%20bulbs%2048

Full disclosure: I work at one of these stores.

T5s are a MUCH smaller , thinner than standard bulb. How long are the ones you have?

(Each unit is 1/8 inch. A T8 is one inch in diameter. A T5 is 5/8 inch in diameter.  )

I meant fluorescent! Looking for 6,500K LEDs . . .

I wrote LED by mistake. They were T5HO fluorescent fixtures. I'm checking out your site. I have them in several lengths, I think two-feet, four-feet and maybe something even longer. I'll have to get a ladder to check. I just looked at your site—the coolest bulbs they have are only 5,000K. Do they sell anything in 6,000-6,500K?

I haven't seen anything that

I haven't seen anything that "cold"...  but if you're after true daylight color, you don't want to go there, really...

There's not a lot of demand for lights that blue. There might be some special order items, but that would be more expensive. Maybe a LOT more expensive.

T5 HO

Hi,

After going through half of the Phillips F28T5/830 I bought at Home Depot (50% failure rate) I found these at 1000 bulbs.com. I bought the Halco 54W 3000 K ones.

https://www.1000bulbs.com/category/f54t5-high-output-fluorescent-tubes-3000k/

They have been holding up very well, at less than half the cost of the Phillips. I bought the box of 25.

I have not tried the 6500K lamps but they have them as well.

https://www.1000bulbs.com/category/f54t5-high-output-fluorescent-tubes-6500k/

Hope that helps,

Regards, Ed

6500K tubes

Jim

I mix a 4100k and a 6500k in my four foot dual lamps. They are a bright as the PDC LED lights that I just installed

I get my tubes at Lowes 2/7.00

I like "cool!"

My whole house is already 6,500K. I like it! I'm going for that cold, space ship, hospital aesthetic.

Thanks Ed!

Thanks, Ed! But those are fluorescent? My whole house is currently T5HOs, and they're still pretty expensive to run. In Southern California, our electricity rates are sky-high—about $0.36 per kiloWatt-hour on a normal tier. I'm on an electric car-owner tier. I only pay $0.11 per kiloWatt-hour off-peak (which is dirt-cheap for California), but about $0.60 per kiloWatt-hour in the daytime. We really have to watch our energy efficiency, so I've been waiting for more reliable LED products to reach the market to convert everything in the house to LED.

I read about the T5 HO lights

I read about the T5 HO lights with interest when some modelers first talked about them; at that time they were rather hard to find but it also appears they ran hot and consumed significantly more power.  Add to that they were double to triple the cost compared to the standard T8 alternatives so I decided to wait.

Now I am working on the side of the layout with no over head lights have managed to get much of the sub-scenery in place and now the plaster but want to get better lighting before progressing much further.

With the T5 HO deemed as too costly for my budget and LED lights now coming available comparatively economical prices, they appear to be a good alternative that offered a bit more output in lumens and were also didn't us a lot of power.

The down side to the LED lights is the commonly available versions which come in the 4' fluorescent tube format require a fixture that has the ballast removed.  Ideally I'd like to find fixtures simlar to those I have but are ready for LED tube bulbs (i.e. I don't have to do surgery on one of the fixtures sold with the ballast installed).  Any good sources of those types of fixtures for attractive prices?

Cheers, Jim Fitch

Ballasts:

They're actually pretty easy to remove. But no, I haven't seen any ballast-less T5 fixtures. Some may be sold with the ballast not installed (i.e., packed separately). This is an on-going problem. There just seems to be few choices for "RTR" LED lighting that's both from a major manufacturer and with a good warranty (many eBay sellers' products have NO warranty). If you're okay with warmer LEDs (e.g., 4,000K), there's some options, but those interested in cooler temps like me are still searching.

This is one string of 5730

This is one string of 5730 SMD LEDs.

Actually 4 strings of 5M were used, two around the top and two around the bottom. Cost $21.99 Canadian.

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00S1L6L1W/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Each string is powered by a 12V 6A power supply. Cost, $13.99 Canadian.

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01EV52AD4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I could have bought cheaper LED strings, but they were not as bright and I would have needed 2 strings around the layout.

The down side to the LED? Not really...

No. You do NOT have to remove the ballasts. There are LED lights that are "direct replacement" that will work with the existing ballasts. There are also hybrid lights that with work both with ballasts and without. I have several of those installed in various places myself.

Let me clarify this a little... There are THREE families of LED tubes:

1. Direct replacement - Does not require removal of the ballast. Installs in the existing fixture with no modifications, just like a regular fluorescent tube.
2. Ballast Bypass - Requires ballast removal if used in an existing fixture, works connected directly to normal 120v AC house current. Comes with stickers to put in the fixture warning that the ballast has been removed.
3. Hybrid - Works with or without ballast, the bulb senses the power and works accordingly. You don't even need to know if the fixture has been modified.

The no-ballast lights and hybrids don't require a fixture IF YOU ARE COMFORTABLE AND KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT WORKING WITH FULL HOUSE CURRENT!

You can buy "unshunted" tombstones (the holders at the ends of the fluorescent tubes) and make your own fixture. I've done this as well, to display the new LED tubes.

bar_ceo, So my next question

bar_ceo,

So my next question is, are the "direct replacement" LED 4' tube lights significantly more expensive?  If it's a significant cost savings to get the "bypass ballast" type, I'm willing to remove the ballast on my inexpensive shop light fixtures to keep the costs down (per the original topic title "economic layout lighting".

Jim Saw at Costco 4pack LED

Jim

Saw at Costco 4pack LED direct replacement T8 4 footers for $18.99.

4100K color temp.

Ballast removal is not that hard. 10 to 15 minutes each.

Not having the high pitched ballast noise-priceless!

Steve

Unfortunately I don't have a

Unfortunately I don't have a membership at Costco.

I've never noticed a high pitched ballast noise - but then I haven't heard that high-pitched noise made by tube TV's since I was probably in my twenties; the high end is the first to go.  I remember my daughter mentioning it when she was around 12 or 14 and wow, that brought back memories of when I was a kid and I could tell the TV was on in the living room cause I could hear that high pitched noise.

Anyway, I guess I'll look at buying another shop light from HD or Lowes and remove the ballast and order a few of those LED 4' tubes.

"Anyway, I guess I'll look at

        I'd look for 4 foot LED shop lights that come assembled and ready to plug in, they don't cost any more than replacement bulbs. I got mine at Costco but they should be available at most home supply or lighting stores( if you have a Costco near by you might find a friend who's a member to get you some, because the Costco return policy is very custome friendly ) I replaced all the flourescents in my train room with these LEDs and they are just as bright with no sound at all, and have something like a 20 year life span.......DaveB

I don't have a friend who is

I don't have a friend who is a member of Costco either.

Thanks anyway.

So my next question is...

Same price as the bypass. And note - unlike cheap bulbs (which a couple of you have mentioned don't last, or never worked in the first place...), these come with a 5 year warranty.

https://www.batteriesplus.com/light-bulb/led/tubular-(t)/g13

Again, full disclosure - I work at one of these stores.

Gentlemen, It seems that if

Gentlemen,

It seems that if you start modifying fixtures or building your own you are possibly making a fire hazard and risking voiding your property insurance as well as your safety (and that of others). Typical building codes require fixtures that have UL labels or equivalent. Home-made or modified units don't qualify.

Dante

 Same price as the bypass.

No need to give full disclosure - folks seem to regularly post disclaimers like that; its totally unnecessary.

Thanks for the link.  It appears that vendor does both types for the same price but there are other vendors with lower prices which makes me wonder if they too offer bypass types.

Edit: the description that says "bypass design" says the following at batteries plus: "Ballast bypass design – ballast will need to be removed from fixture".  So they say if you buy the "bypass" type, you will have to remove the ballast FYI.  They call the type you don't need to remove the ballast: "plug and play".  Price is the same.

Whether or not what Dante says is true or not, and I am fairly comfortable with electronics, I'd rather not have to modify/remove ballast from a fixture if possible.

A basic shop light fixture at HD is about $13 (no tubes).  Say $22 for two bypass bulbs at batteriesplus, and thats about $35 for the whole ball of wax.  Are there any LED fixtures with bulbs for around that price?

Voltage

I noticed the links to the ones at Batteries+Bulbs are for 277v fixtures, most 4' shop lights are 110v in North America anyway.  I didn't see any on their site for 110v.

As for whether what you do is to code or not, you need to check with local jurisdictions, what you as a homeowner can and can't do varies by county in my state (MD), so I'm sure it will be different for you.  I know I am more than capable of disconnecting a ballast and properly tying in the new light and I think it might be legal to do, as I am not running new service, but "replacing" an existing light fixture.

Searching for LED T8 light bulbs I came across this site, called Green Light Depot, I get poor response from their website ( http://www.greenlightdepot.com), but they are also on facebook ( https://www.facebook.com/GreenLightDepot/shop?rid=1191095374250741&rt=6) and offer a 110v ballast bypass T8 LED tube either with clear, frosted or stripped cover for 6.99 for 18w / 1800 lm / 4/5/6000 K / CRI> 80, they have a 22w for 8.88, which according to the specs listed offers 2200 lm / 5/6000 K / CRI> 75 / clear or frosted cover.  They also offer what they call versa tubes which will work with ballast in place, but are a couple bucks more.  Don't know what shipping charges will be from them.

 " Are there any LED fixtures

My Costco 4 foot LEDs are made by Feit and cost $30 ready to hang, they include a pull cord on-off switch if it's needed.I don't know if anyone other than Costco sells them  ....DaveB 

None cheaper than $35

HD has many LED fixtures and none provide the amount of light for that price. Go for it!

Will, I like your solution of 5730 SMD LED strip lighting, . I will try that behind a valence.  Currently I use aluminum clip-on reflectors while roughing-in the layout. They can be moved around, clipping lights on either side of the work removes all shadows.

Costco isn't going to do any

Costco isn't going to do any good; I have no membership there.

Jim B, good catch on the voltage.  Just a little detail there that appears to eliminate Batteries+Bulbs if they don't have any 110v lights.  Greenlight Depot sounds like a possibility.  Too back HD and Lowes are slow in getting up to speed in this area.