It looks like a nice plan,

,Not sure if all would be locked but maybe the mainline ones?

Some answers to your questions

I am building a similar layout based around a paper mill as well.You can see the thread here by typing in Laurentian coated Products in the search engine. I grew up 20 miles from Cornwall and I remember the sulphur infused haze the Domtar mill left over the city.

1. Your layout arrangement as well as mill arrangement is pretty accurate. I would suggest with the size of mill and inbound raw materials shown that if possible to create a larger finished product warehouse with a larger finished products siding. 

2. Derails probably wouldn't be used except maybe on the chip and pulp wood tracks. However wheel chocks would be placed under the chemical tank cars being unloaded. Although they no longer make pulp, when they did the paper mill that I worked at for 6 years placed wheel chocks under the sulphuric acid and sodium hypochlorite tank cars being unloaded. So that could be an interesting operating scenario.

3. Switch stands on mill property behind the fence would not have switch locks, but the switches outside the fence probably would. 

Hope this helps.

Shane

One more suggestion.

I would flip flop the chemical unloading tracks and calcium carbonate tracks as the chemical storage and offloading would be close to the kraft mill while calcium carbonate would be used in the papermaking process in the fourdrinier building for coating purposes.

Shane

Mill

1 - Looks good, and the mill will probably be a nice enjoyable job to switch, but the one comment I would make is that the arrangement of the yard ladder at top would make it very awkward for the local RR to interchange cars to/from as the only track they can access with using the mill trackage as a switchback is the double-ended siding. If the yard is used as interchange/storage, it would be convenient for the interchanging RR to be able to drop or lift into/out of multiple tracks. If you have explicitly planned all along for the only transfers to take place on the siding track, and the yard is just internal for the paper co., that's fine.

2 - There might be a derail where the mill tracks connect to the main line, but not likely anywhere within the mill

3 - switches within the mill or the yard wouldn't be locked. I think generally only the switches on the main or running track would be required to be locked.

Plan

You have about 20-24 spots for inbound cars and only 8 spots for outbound cars. 

I would make two tracks accessible to the CN, if there is a track of outbound cars then there is no place to set the inbound cars. 

You will have to shove all the cuts around to the interchange or else you'll have the engine trapped.

Wood chips and pulpwood often travel in unit trains because chips and pulpwood are perishable, they don't produce as high a quality of paper if they dry out.

Does your mill use scrap paper?  That would require and inbound track.

The mills I worked with had special runs for the brown "kraft" paper (they called them a "bag run").  Generally the pant will want to load one or two types of cars.  For example a plain 50 ft 70 ton boxcar (think Railbox type) for the boxed computer paper, cardboard or kraft paper rolls and then probably a plug door 50-60 ft car for computer paper rolls.  The boxed, palletized stuff can go in the less "finished" boxcars that will tend to be "rougher".  The quality computer paper rolls will go in the PD box with smoother insides (with doors closed) for less damage to the higher quality product.

If you wanted another switching opportunity, take the outside track in the yard (KC08) and put a paved area along it and use it as a clean out track for the boxcars.  All the inbound boxcars get run through the cleaning track before loading.  About 2-5% fail the cleaning/inspection (doors don't fit tight, holes in floor or walls, oil on floor, food products on floor, etc) and have to be set back.  Then put bits of wood, banding, debris along the track and in a dumpster at the end of the track, half filled with debris, maybe a couple 55 gallon drums where they burn wood scraps.  The cleaners use an older flatbed truck they drive along the track and use the bed as a "loading dock" to open the car doors and then remove any debris onto the bed.  The truck will have brooms, pry bars, and a come along on it.

ANOTHER TYPE OF MILL RAILRAOD

Just as an informational note - Some large mill complexes had a dedicated internal railroad (oftentimes narrow guage but sometimes not).  The noted author John Lewis has a very interesting article on the Camas, WA Crown Zellerbach mill and it's 3 foot railroad in a recent issue of the SP&S Historical society magazine.

Large sawmill complexes did likewise. Narrow guage was most often used because of the smaller equipment and abilities for tighter turns. If you model standard guage otherwise this could give you an excuse to do some narrow guage.

This mill equipment frequently involved the use of short 4 wheel cars, most specially built for the use.

Lon Wall

Google and Bing maps

Are nice tools to use, especially their aerial views for getting a good feeling of the layout of large complexes as a paper mill would exhibit.  In my area of Central Wisconsin there are a number of paper mills.  The New Page, formerly Consolidated Papers, mill in Whiting was recently closed and demolished.  It had an interesting "wye" shaped configuration that would make an interesting layout too.  See this Bing map and use aerial view to "fly" around inspecting this site:

https://www.bing.com/mapspreview?q=new+page+paper+whiting%2c+wi&mkt=en&FORM=HDRSC4

Replies

Shane,

I grew up in Morrisburg on the Canadian side a few miles West of Cornwall. Small world. My uncle and grandfather both worked at DOMTAR, but I never really thought much of it until I got into model railroading. They didn't have much to do with the rail side of things though.

I looked at your blog and track plan. Looking good. I'll be interested to see your progress.

To All,

I adjusted the yard so that the switcher and local access the yard from the same location. I also moved the Calcium Carbonate loading shed as suggested.

A few follow up questions:

1. With this yard arrangement, is it more likely that CN owns the yard tracks and that they are divided equally between pick-ups and set-outs (no 'storage' tracks), with the DOMTAR switcher simply pulling and spotting cars in the yard as required, on the appropriate 'pick-up' 'set-out' track?

Or, would everything from KC 03 to KC 08 be DOMTAR track? Or would it be half CN and half DOMTAR?

2. Would all switches in the yard likely be locked as they are beyond the gate house / fence, or only those owned by CN? Who controls the locks or has copies of keys?

Updated photo is linked from the server here: /sites/model-railroad-hobbyist.com/files/users/Joe Baker/DOMTAR%20Pulp%20and%20Paper%20Mill%20(2).bmp

Thanks

Answers to your questions.

It definitely is a small world. I grew up just a cross the border in St. Lawrence County.

To answer your questions,

Since this is a private industry and Domtar takes care of the switching it would be reasonable that Domtar owns the yard except maybe 2 inbound tracks that could also be used as departure tracks. As CN may only switch the yard once or twice a day, the mill switcher would be in and out all day and do all required set outs for CN. 

A suggestion for a switcher would be one or 2 sw1200rs'.

I would only use a lock on the switch that accesses the mainline. Both CN and Domtar crews would have keys. 

Hope this helps,

Shane

Locks

Typically only main track switches have locks.  Technically none of this is main track, since its all industrial lead.  If you want locks then only those switches that were in or connected to the main track/industrial lead would have locks.   Same with derails.  There would only be derails on the connections to the ma in track/industrial lead.

Paper mills are awesome

Paper mills are awesome operations and receive the greatest variety of rolling stock over pretty much all other industries! All my layouts focus around a mill, I'm currently building another one right now. Here's what I know having worked at plants and for railroads   

Most industries have locks on the incoming tracks and usually placed by the servicing railroad. On my layout the track to the main will be locked and only the railroad switch crew will have a key. I learned that one op session when a friend working the mill decided to use part of the main for a switching move... Now that was exciting! 

For the period your modelling derails would be placed most anywhere cars are being loaded or emptied and particularly before doors into warehouses. I plan to have a few operating ones at the mill. 

Unfortunately my space is much more limited than yours so I'll be squishing as much as possible into the allotted area. Your mill could easily keep a couple switchers quite busy, I'll be watching!

Wesco

Hi Joe (and Shane), 

Modelling that Cornwall mill is a long-dreamt fantasy of mine. Good for you!!

i have many pocket doodles and sketches of how I would model that mill, and it's neighbour (C.I.L. in my chosen era - the mid seventies thru 80's)

My two favourite "vignettes" are 

- the view from second street of that track down between the Kraft mill and the admin building and how the track weaved down and disappeared into the mill complex,

- the assortment of tracks and chemicals/ loading galleries at c.i.l.

i have spent some time searching online for an actual survey/ plan of the trackage in and around that mill and have never come up with anything  I would be interested if anyone could provide it. Old photos online have been my only extra source besides my memories  

feel free to give me a shout

notes2ian 

(That's my gmail)

Oh one last thing:

for a while c.i.l. Had its own 'mill locomotive' an S2 or something (painted blue as I recall) brought in from some place like Sarnia...  Anyhow, the story I heard is that it never got used cuz CN (after collecting their fee for ferrying the unit) would not allow a private loco/crew on its proprietary trackage out to Wesco or down to the yard at 10th St.E. 

In closing I am eagerly awaiting the sw1200rs model from true line trains as well as the point st. Charles caboose. I have a sylvan models CN transfer van and may get another or perhaps a brass one. 

Ebo2112

You've come to the right place! I have the car control / track diagrams for all of Cornwall in the 1980-84 timeframe! Send me a private message if you're interested and I'll email them to you. Lots of good details like spur names, commodities for each spur, spur lengths, industries, streets, etc... C.I.L included.

I'm no longer attempting to accurately model the mill itself. I'm just using it for inspiration now. I was having difficulty finding photos and I don't have any of my own. The mill also wasn't that complex in terms of switching and rail traffic from what I can deduce from the plans, unless I model the entire Wesco spur which would be a large project even with selective compression (and I don't have a basement available for that).

Instead I'm modeling a freelance mill that incorporates aspects of various DOMTAR mills across Canada and the US producing finished paper.

Mill plans

I totally understand mean about selectively compressing that whole system of trackage from Wesco to the Domtar mill. 

In my sketches I usually have a modest yard, then two branch lines ,one at each end, that curve around and split, but which interweave with each other... It adds density/interest, great use of space/compression, and feels like one big mill but one end is geared to be viewed as c.i.l. and the other is to be viewed as domtar.  

Anyhow, yes I'd love a copy of the mill plan... Let me just figure out PM in this forum.

cheers

ian in Halifax 

Wasn't Jack Hill's New Castle

Wasn't Jack Hill's New Castle Industrial RR  based around a paper mill?  http://oscalewcor.blogspot.co.uk/

It would give you a reasonably small space layout to play with

Ebo 2112

Click on my name at the top of one of my replies / posts and then click the 'contact' tab on the right.

New Castle layout

Inland Container is a corrugated container company.  They turn paper into cardboard packaging products.

http://oscalewcor.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/inland-container-layout-design-element.html

I live about 10 minutes away.  I have the Gettysburg units in N Scale.

New Castle Layout

Jack Hill's website is a great one, but went silent a couple of years ago.  In one section he outlines switching the Inland plant.  I had a section of my layout where I could duplicate it.  It took me well over an hour, two turnouts no run around.  Jack also outlined switching tanks at a juice factory and off loading bulk chemicals both further up the line.  I also set these up, over an hour each.  In all three cases spots were the critical piece, not switching puzzles or a lot of turnouts.  These real world examples opened up my eyes regarding track planning. I think Jack is a brakeman on the Gettysburg Northern so it is a real railroader's perspective.

I have thought of modeling the GN myself in HO, but undec GP units are hard to come by.  mu26 where did you get the GN decals?