Introducing the New GD&T

The new Greenpoint Dock and Transfer Company (a car float serviced terminal switching layout c. 1974) is essentially a rebuild of my original layout as an “unfolded” shelf layout versus the original freestanding wrap around design.  While I was sad to see the old layout go, on the positive side the new layout will be in a comfortable, climate controlled space and no longer in an unfinished “train dungeon” in a space that doubles as my kids’ playroom.

Can't wait

to see this come together.  A bit smaller than the old one, but still looks like fun.  Is it still in the basement (meaning you've done a lot of renos down there), or have you got a room upstairs?

teach those those kids" No

teach those those kids" No Touch"

shelf layout brackets

Shelf layout brackets at 45 degrees are something I'm partial to.  For a shelf 24 inches wide, the shelf bracket would be 34 inches.  ( Pythagorean stuff: the square root of 24 squared plus 24 squared equals 33.9 )

The 45 degree bracket is more rigid, but it's best to have a chop saw to achieve a nice 45 degree cut.  Metal L shape brackets are less work, so there are pros and cons to consider.  As long as you don't mind the look of the 34 inch 45 degee brackets below the shelf, I think it's a strong design.  Two inch sheet rock screws work fine in pre drilled holes.

"Here is my layout plan on a

Hi Rich,  I really like your layout plan. You have captured the carfloat type of scene very well. you have sufficient yard for loading and unloading the float which most people don't understand and all the industries and track arrangements look convincing. Makes me want to build a float operation !  PS, all those toys on the floor remind me of what's really important , spend time with your kids as well as with your layout cause the kids will leave too soon and a layout will still be around :> ) 

Nice Richard...

The basement finished up really nice man, looks like a very comfortable room to be shared by you and the kids.  I think it's a great idea being able to share the space.

The new plan flows really well and look forward to seeing it all come together, welcome back and keep posting as you progress.

Jas...

Thanks for the kind words,

Thanks for the kind words, all.  This is in fact the same basement that housed my prior layout. We renovated what my wife described as the "train dungeon" into a much more usable pleasant space.  Originally I had hoped for a dedicated layout room but opening up the entire space made for a much better flowing room.  

I'll share the space with my kids but that's OK with me as I'd love to share the hobby with them if they're interested (my son's Thomas rolling stock far outnumbers what I have in HO!).  While the layout may look smaller than the prior version, it's almost the same amount of linear footage along the wall (note there is an additional 16" of carfloat yard area that didn't make it into the track diagram image. It's just as screenshot and I couldn't get it all on screen at a reasonable scale).

With two young kids time is limited so my hope is to keep construction methods simple.  I'm planning on using 12"x10" metal brackets off of Amazon screwed into the studs every 16". To keep weight down the benchwork will be open boxes made out of 1x3s topped with 2" blue board insulation. For switch machines I plan to laminate luan plywood to the underside of the foam.

More will follow once I get the benchwork started, but that my not come until this Connecticut winter breaks a little; I've got 4' snowdrifts that need to be cleared out of the basement door!

Looks like a good plan and a

Looks like a good plan and a nice space. Very interested in seeing more.

Benchwork!

It took a while, but the snowbanks finally melted around the basement doors and I've started working on the layout.  

My goal from the start was the create a lightweight but sturdy layout that kept the floor open underneath for storage.  I'm mounting the benchwork on simple shelf brackets screwed into the wall studs.  

I'm building the benchwork as a series of boxes so I can complete it over a series of shorter work sessions.  The first box was built with mitered joints on the four outside corners. All my joints are held in place with wood glue and brads.  

To connect to the shelf brackets, provide stability for the benchwork, and support for the roadbed that will go above it, there are doubled up 1x3s with 1x2s underneath them. I added the 1x2s because the design of the shelf brackets would've put the screws from the shelf bracket right between the 1x3s and I was worried that it would cause them to split apart.  2x3s weren't available in pine so this seemed the most elegant solution.  

The finished box seems rock solid but light.  I'm really happy with the design thus far.  

Benchwork Complete

My benchwork is finally complete (told you this would be slow!) and ready for the foam layer.  A few thoughts to this point as I’m really happy with this benchwork.  

It’s quick and easy to build. If I had the free time and the supplies on hand I could have built all of it in a day with my marginal carpentry skills.  Just put together a cut list and you can bang this out in no time. The benchwork is mounted on simple 10”x12” shelf brackets from Amazon attached at every stud. For the 12” deep sections of the benchwork this is amazingly stable.  Try as I might, I can’t get the benchwork to move at all. 

For the 24” deep sections the brackets needed some reinforcement to keep it stable.  I used 4” toggle bolts at first but I still had some wiggle.  Screwing through the back of the benchwork into the studs eliminated the rest of it save for one spot (we'll get to that in a minute).

That one spot is the car float end of my benchwork. This portion extends about 6” past the last bracket, and despite a toggle bolt just in from the end still has a small amount of wiggle.  Any suggestions on how to get rid of the last of this? It’s the busiest portion of the railroad (loading/unloading the float is 90% of what one of my operators will do in a session) and it’s bound to get bumped now and again. 

I’ve drilled ¾” holes through the entire layout in anticipation of wiring, but anything else I should do before closing the top off with my foam? There isn’t anything I can remember from the last layout.

Thanks for reading and sharing!

Toggles

Toggle bolts in gypboard will always loosen in time if there is any outward component to the load. In your case the leverage of the 24" beam is perfect to rip the toggle right out. You need to beef up the bracket at the stud so there is no wiggle. The hardware store will have steel shelf brackets with a diagonal- one of those will do the trick, or you could build the equivalent out of wood. Those pressed metal brackets will bend away from the wall if someone leans on the edge of the bench. I suggest you beef up a couple more of the brackets in the 24" section to help them out.

pqe

Nice and Neat...

looks like a pro put that together.   John

Those pressed metal brackets

A question on this: What if I just put a few more screws through the back of the benchwork into the wall studs to take more of the downward force off of the brackets? Would that achieve the same effect? I only put screws through at every other stud as my goal was about flex in the benchwork rather than additional strength.  

I'm mostly looking to avoid cars getting knocked over if people bump it more than holding up the weight of people leaning on the layout.  The track height is giong to be right around 4' so leaning on the shelf woudl be hard to do unless it was done intentionally. 

Also, the boss will be a lot happier if my brackets all match up in the snazzy new playroom...

Not sure I can answer well

These are the brackets I have used on shelving above the layout, which I think is what Pelsea was suggesting.  There is no give in them whatsoever.  In terms of the wife wanting things neat, do you no longer plan to store stuff under the layout?  If I remember correctly, you stored everything under your previous layout.  A nice curtain of some kind below the fascia to the floor would provide a nice clean look for the wife (and you), and allow for storage at the layout as well.

"This portion extends about

You could get bigger shelf brackets with longer arms to increase their leverage or drop a diagonal brace down and screw it into a wall stud. Probably would be a good idea to add them every 4 feet or so to stiffen up the whole platform. I"ve built O scale benchwork 30 inches wide with no problems using the diagonal braces....DaveB 

Video Evidence

Rather than struggle through a reply I figured it's just easiest to share a video of what's doing.  Sorry for the spotty audio quality but this was a quick and dirty job.

Very nice plan, well liked.

Hi.  I would place a diagonal wooden or other material brace right on the end piece. The total weight of the float and lets say 15 pieces of rolling stock max and a yard behind it seem not to be the issue.  Working the float may encounter operator weight issues. I had a similar plan in O scale but my float was on a diagonal which was constantly bumped and sometimes disengaged the float to float bridge connection. So I made an island support engage and buffer the bumps and awkward angle of this float. Just a wooden structure with wooden angle braces.Worked great even with human bumping error.

I wouldn't worry so much about leaning

as I would swinging. 

Little kids and a 48" high jungle gym...................you better stiffen that puppy up.

Because you're at the end of

Because you're at the end of the frame you will always get movement up & down unless you install a diagonal brace from at least the center of the width of the bench going down to the wall.

That's what I would do.

"a video of what's doing"  

Good job showing it , that's worth a lot of words.  Looks like it's partially flexing of the benchwork box grid and maybe a bit at the connection to the shelf brackets? If you don't want to add a diagonal brace down to the wall you might be able to stiffen the benchwork with a stringer running long ways under the cross members and well fastened to them and the ends of the shelf brackets to reinforce that connection. How deep( how wide is the material) are the front and rear benchwork stringers? They appear deep enough (in the vertical dimension)to have sufficient stiffness but they seem to flex pretty easily in the video. .....DaveB 

Not what you wanted but:

I would put a hinged leg/brace that will fold up under the bench work when not in use and drop down when needed.  An alternative would be a brace hinged against to wall and unfolding out to the bench work edge.  Anyway you look at it this end will need some additional support.

Dan

Perhaps an internal diagonal brace...

Perhaps an internal diagonal brace might provide enough stiffness... If you cut a piece of your framing material to be a snug fit and run it corner-to-corner in that last section of the layout, gluing and screwing it into place, you may provide enough stiffness into the framework to inhibit the racking you are getting now...

Just a thought...

-Eric

Thanks all for the ideas.

Thanks all for the ideas.  The problem with adding a bracket right at the end is I have nothing to drill into in the wall. My last bracket is 10" in becuase it's the last stud the layout passes. As was noted by DaveB, the last bracket and the section of layout attached to it don't flex when I put weight on the table, it's just that end piece (which is all 1x3 select pine, excepting the 1x2s underneath the joists to connect to the brackets)

If I'm to understand the suggestion correctly, you want me to run support member between the last joist and the outer frame of the benchwork in the area pictured below, correct? I have some extra 1x2s laying around that could fill that purpose perfectly.

Eric's suggestion is a good

Eric's suggestion is a good one and will help, especially if the back is screwed into a stud, but it will not totally or permanently solve the problem.  I see 2 solid solutions; extending the benchwork to the next stud (perhaps with a nice smooth curve to make it more appealing), or replacing that last bracket with a bigger one.  With little ones around, you have a real danger of one hanging off the corner and pulling the shelf off the wall with no support for those last 10".