Silver solder

No idea on temp. Never paid attention to that.

I use 75 percent on the control with a wedge tip for soldering feeders.

For decoder wires, 50 percent heat with the fine conical tip.

I use Cardas Quad Eutectic, .032 solder which also has silver, copper, tin and lead in it.

Been soldering since 1953 and the best solder by far.

Rich

Silver Solder Temps

The melting point of the various silver solders can range from under 200 ˚C to some greater than 360 ˚C, but most of the solders in general hobby use (including most lead free alloys) have melt temperature in the range of 215 ˚C to 220 ˚C (419 ˚F to 428 ˚F). This is only 20 to 30 °C higher than 60/40 tin / lead (183 °C / 351 °F) but substantially below 750 ˚F (399 ˚C). If your silver solder is not melting with your iron set to 750 °F, I would suspect that your iron is out of calibration or you have a very high temperature solder.

What solder are you using?

Silver Soldering

You will need a flame to heat up both pieces of metal to a red hot state before "silver solder" will melt.

Bernd

As Bernd has said, assuming

As Bernd has said, assuming it's engineers Silver Solder.

You will need to use a flux on the parts being soldered & you will be "sweating" the parts together.

EG. Carbide tips to mild steel for making lathe tools.

Cheers 

I'm making a very long N

I'm making a very long N scale chain link fence, planning to sweat the joints together with silver solder which is suppose to be stronger than normal solder.  The contact point of the two fence poles is very tiny indeed hence the need of something strong to work, I've tried all kinds of glues, they're a no go.  It was actually here that silver solder was recommended.

Some confusion

I think there is some confusion between silver solder, which is a type of brazing wire, and silver bearing solder. These are often called hard solder and soft solder. Silver solder is an alloy of silver and indium or copper (there are other varieties) and melts at well above 1000 degrees F. You need a torch to solder with it. Soft solder was classically lead and tin, but lead is out of favor and has been replaced with zinc and a small amount of silver.

I used to use both kinds as a musical instrument repairman, building sub assemblies like a flute rib and posts with hard solder, then soft soldering the assembly to the body. I may try this technique the first time I build an etched brass kit.

pqe

No Flames Necessary

I moved with the electronics industry as it transitioned from lead solders to lead free solders which DO NOT require significantly higher temperatures for soldering. For electrical work I almost exclusively use Sn96.5/Ag3/Cu0.5 (Tin-Silver-Copper) solder which solder (melt) effectively at temperatures in the 215 ˚C to 220 ˚C (419 ˚F to 428 ˚F). These and similar solders are used in the cosmetic (junk) jewelery industry because of their increased strength, so they should also meet your fencing needs. This and similar silver bearing solders are produced by all major manufactures like Kester and available from most distributors like Mouser. I have also seen it at Radio Shack.

Thanks ken, what you have

Thanks ken, what you have said has been my understanding of the solder

SRA Soldering Products

SRA Soldering Products is another good source of commercial-grade products.  The home page can be found at sra-solder.com.  Ted Shasta

Using a silver-bearing solder PASTE...

Using a silver-bearing solder paste will help, too, as it can be applied to the wire with a toothpick and simply touched with the iron to melt it into place - should only take a second or two if you're using pre-tinned circuit board bus wire for the fence. Keep the tip of the iron clean and shiny for good heat transfer too... you may be indicating sufficient temperature., but if the tip is dirty you won't actually get that temp at the business end.

How long a run are you making? The longest single piece of N scale fence I've done was bout 5 feet... I had to build part of it, then move it on the jig to finish!

I am planning roughly 9 feet,

I am planning roughly 9 feet, perhaps a bit more, its fencing in a yard on one side.

Are you sure you want that

Are you sure you want that long a run with no breaks?That's a quarter of a mile! 

A Real World fence that long would probably have several man-gates in it, and probably a vehicle gate as well (even  if there's no road), if for no other reason than access for mowing equipment. and/or maintenance.

Its not going to be just one

Its not going to be just one long run, but maybe one gate only.  There are long runs here in Vancouver of chain link fencing by train tracks, for example, Pacific Central Station and surrounding area.

Lead Free Solder

I just wanted to chime in here concerning lead free solders. A buddy and I did a presentation to our club on this very subject. Soldering can be a tricky subject, but if done right can be getter then any other connection. 

A couple of things to keep in mind when soldering, and are things I live by:

-get a good iron. We spend how much money on a sound locomotive but we won't spend the same amount on a tool that is the back bone of our layouts?  I bought a Weller WES-51 for my standard soldering rig, with an assortment of tips. I can do surface mount chip soldering all the way up to large gauge wires. Also remember, good irons will give temp readings, not power readings. Power doesn't mean squat if you can't get the temperatures you need to do the job. 

-Get good solder.  I exclusively use Leaded solder.  Some (note I said some) non leaded solder will melt at lower temperatures.  But the majority take higher temperatures for longer times to do the same as leaded will do with lower heat.  And remember heat = temperature.  Most of your DCC boards can handle about three to five seconds of high temps.  Go over that and you could experience board damage.  Also I have to say something about the whole leaded vs non leaded issue.  NASA did a study a while ago on this very subject and found that non leaded solders have a propensity to "grow" microscopic fingers called Tin whiskers.  These whiskers caused all kinds of issues on their switches in the Space Shuttle and other space craft, so they went away from using the non leaded solders.  So if NASA isn't using non leaded solder, then by golly I'll do the same thing as long as I can.

-Pre-tin your wires.  Pre-tinning will ensure you get a good solid bond between your wires or mated surface.

-Use flux if you need to.  I keep hearing talk of fluxes, but not which kinds.  Get some stuff called "no clean flux".  It is designed to not have to be cleaned up with alcohol ( I still do however).  Other fluxes can leave behind residue that can cause build ups and eventually lead to a failed joint or component.  Make sure that any flux you get is rated for electronics!  NO PLUMBER FLUXES!!

-Practice. Get good at using your soldering iron, and know the limitations of your tool (ie solder, iron, tips).  You should be able to solder with minimal to no displacement of your wire insulation. 

I'm very passionate about soldering correctly. Some simple steps listed above and I think you'll have pleasant soldering experiences as well. 

Craig - engineering tech specialist for 15 years, with certifications in RoHS, standard Soldering, High temp Soldering, and ISO soldering practices. 

Thank you

for that, Craig. Good to know as I start soldering track.

Stainless steel wire

I expect you are using some sort of spring temper copper alloy to make this fenceing.  These solder easily, but at soldering temperatures they loose their temper.  you end up with a stiff wire with a soft section near the joint, making it difficult to keep the fence straight.  You might consider using 301 spring temper stainless steel wire, which doesn't loose its temper until about 1200°F.  All the materials  you need are available at McMaster.  The solder is .125" diameter wire so you'll have to cut off tiny bits for your application.  Straight spring temper wire in 1 ft. lengths is available down to .005" diameter.

Thread exhumation

I've picked this old thread to ask my question because there's some info here on silver-bearing solder that's relevant, and I didn't want to start yet another thread on soldering just to ask my question.

Since I don't have a space to build a layout, I am thinking of satisfying my MRR itch by building turnouts using fast tracks jigs. 

I am sold on the idea that I don't want to use the acid-based flux that fast tracks recommends. 

I decided that the higher cost of silver-bearing solder wasn't a big deal (once), and I wanted to use it for at least the throw bar (and probably just the whole turnout to avoid having to have two kinds of solder). 

I poked around and around and found Kester 48 Activated Rosin Flux Core lead-free solder wire. Kester 48 appears to be the replacement for Kester 44 that so many people recommend. This is Kester 90-7068-1407, .015 in diameter, Sn96.5/Ag3/Cu0.5. They make a 100g package, which I hope would be a multi-year supply. RS Hughes has it for $41. (The one pound package, 24-7068-1407, is $84, a much better deal but I don't expect to use that much - right?).

While there are much cheaper "silver bearing" solders available on amazon that come from china, they claim 0.3% silver instead of 3%, and even then one common brand's product has a rating from a customer who claimed to test its content and found no silver at all. So I don't trust them. I decided to stick with Kester and pay up for the right stuff (hopefully only once). 

But... 

The web page (at Hughes, for the 1lb package) says the melting point is 792 degrees F! That's 422 C. This is the same composition as what KenK says he uses, so why such a high melting temperature? The datasheet says "Solder iron tip temperatures are most commonly between 371-400°C (700-750°F) for lead-free alloys."

Have I picked out the wrong thing? Is this the "blowtorch" stuff mentioned in this thread?

Second question is what flux is appropriate for this solder? Is the 837-p water-soluble flux pen from MG electronics compatible and a good choice? I think someone recommended it on one thread I read. 

Stay away from large packages because

You'll never use it all!

My supply is from my father's "Lifetime supply."    He's 15 years gone.  (see, I told you!) 

He had been an electronics engineer, and built my layout's power supply... an oddball... constant 12VDC, variable current.  See if you can find one like that!   His hobby electronics kept his iron active for decades...

His leftover supply was about 18 ounces of various types (Kester rosin was his standby, also solid and acid core -for plumbing- were in his supply.)   After these 15 years, I still have 2 lbs..  This means the lead-free for my plumbing, my thin low-lead and other specialties have been added.. even though My standby is the old Kester my Dad had left over. 

Solder Breeds!

Silver's Melting Point

Pure silver melts at 1761º F (961ºC). I don't see a need for silver bearing solder for turnout work. A good leaded solder flows the best. The lead won't kill you if you wash your hands after you've done your work. Solder your turnouts with in a good ventilated area. Use a paint both style ventilation system to draw the fumes away from you. 60/40 solder is what use with rosin core flux either in the solder or in a paste form from a container.

I just recently ordered a solder paste and bottle of rosin flux from Amazon for a little over $24.00.

Liquid rosin flux: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005DNR01Q/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Solder paste: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017RSZFQQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Granted the solder won't be used for building turnouts. The flux can be used on anything you want to solder. I'm using the solder to fix some items on a brass engine I bought recently. The solder is very low melting. This will help to keep other soldered items from coming unsoldered.

Bernd

Try TIX

Google "TIX solder" to find out about a relatively high strength/low melting point solder that is ideal for trackwork.

Back to Solder?

First one type of solder will not be adequate for all applications. Get small spools, jars or syringes of what is appropriate for the task at hand.

When building turnouts or other track work you are not soldering to copper (Tined or otherwise) but a brass alloy (Nickle Silver), and a solder with a moderately active flux, as recommended by Fast Tracks ( Soldering Trackwork Using Acid Based Flux), is an appropriate solder. When working on the bench it is very easy to clean and neutralize the flux off with an appropriate solvent.

Although we have a lot of die hard Lead-Heads, the range and variety of lead free solders has almost totally displaced lead based solders in industry. Silver bearing solders are not cheap but a 4 ox spool will, with good solder techniques which you will lean with a little practice, last through hundreds of turnouts. Silver bearing solder, even the low temp versions, are also stronger than Sn-Pb solders.

I just checked the specification for several of the SN-Cu-Ag solders available from DigiKey and Mouser, and most of the melt temperatures were in the 217-220 °C (423-428 °F) range. I have never had any problems with the reflow characteristics of these solders when working on the bench or run through my oven set for a peak temperature of 249 °C. Would you please post a link to the Hughes data sheet? I would like to see what solder you are looking at.

For PCBs with temperature sensitive parts, I have Sn,Bi,Ag with a melt temp of only 180°C (281°F) which is in the same range as eutectic 63/37 Sn-Pb. So the melt temp of any one solder component is irrelevant. If it were we would be looking at the melt temp of pure lead which is 327.46 °C ​(621.43 °F). This stuff flows absolutely smooth with great joints. 

Flux pens are OK, but I prefer having a variety of fluxes in syringes and or dispenser bottles. Paste fluxes when I have good access to the surfaces and thinner fluxes when the flux need to wick into a joint. I still keep a flux (small paint) brush handy for touch-up. 

data sheet

Hughes doesn't have a datasheet per se, it has a "specifications" section if you scroll down the product page a bit. The specification section for the 1 lb package has a bit more info than the section for the same stuff in the 100g package. 

https://www.rshughes.com/p/Kester-48-Activated-Rosin-Flux-Core-Lead-Free-Solder-Wire-1-Lb-0-015-In-Wire-Diameter-Sn-Ag-Cu-Compound-24-7068-1407/24_7068_1407/?q=24-7068-1407

cut & pasted:

SPECIFICATIONS

• Brand: Kester
• Series: 48
• Core Type: Activated Rosin Flux Core
• Wire Diameter: 0.015 in
• Elemental Composition: Sn/Ag/Cu
• Total Composition: Sn96.5/Ag03/Cu0.5
• Solder Weight: 1 lb
• Flux Percent: 3.3%
• Melting Point: +792 °F
• Standards Met: RoHS 2002/95/EC; ROM1 (IPC/J STD 004)

Here is the same product from Mouser (but almost twice as expensive): 

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kester/24-7068-1407?qs=Tcwt6g1oMihMP2fStzIRVA%3D%3D

They however have a link to a Kester datasheet:

https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/213/TDS_48_flux-cored_wire-1131679.pdf

But that datasheet appears to be just for the rosin core flux and not the solder, and doesn't list a melting point that I could see.

A web search for Sn96.5/Ag03/Cu0.5 melt point turned up this paper which says Sn96.5/Ag3.0/Cu0.5 melts at 219.77°C, which is 427.586 F. I've seen other listings (e.g. on amazon) for the solder that lists melting point at 700F+, so I don't know what to believe - I'm suspicious that there are multiple ways of measuring melting point that matter and I'm comparing apples to oranges because I'm not familiar with the technology of measuring melting. Or maybe there's one melting point for the flux and another for the solder? I'm thoroughly rat-holed here.

I did google TIX, but nowhere

I did google TIX, but nowhere could I find what its composition was. Is it a trade secret?

The way TIX is supplied, as little sticks of solder, rather than a long spool, doesn't seem to me to be ideal. You'll only use half of each stick if you don't want to burn your fingers, or you have to hold the stick with pliers or something. It seems more awkward than unrolling a few inches from a spool and poking it into the joint.

Re: I did google TIX, but nowhere