Rene Gourley renegourley

In which I explore questions of car forwarding, train dispatching, and so on.

Rene Gourley
Modelling Pembroke, Ontario in Proto:87

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Rene Gourley renegourley

Operating a Small Layout

A recent comment  has got me thinking about operations. I think that operating a small layout is actually different than just a piece of a larger layout, as asserted in one of the responses.

Now, first, I must confess that I've very little experience with operating small layouts. There was the one time that I operated John H Wright's Federal Street (incidentally, also my only experience with a double-slip switch). And a very satisfying evening operating a large-scale indoor layout here on the North Shore. Two sessions does not an expert make.

But this is the Internet, and we don't have to be experts to publish! So, I'll go on, and you can assume that this is as much for me as it is for you.

One key difference for small layouts is in the randomization. With a larger layout, the vagaries of the rest of the operation will naturally introduce variations in operations on a small portion of the layout that add interest. The interchange train is late; some cars don't make it out of the yard and don't appear today; something generates sufficient traffic as to warrant an extra section, etc. How you model these random events could have a significant impact on the fun and realism (they could be over-done) of operations on a small layout.

Small layouts also give us opportunities to model extra detail in operation, such as the agent role. For example, larger layouts typically run on a scheme where any empty car gets routed back to the yard. However, an agent may decide to clean that car and reuse it immediately, or even hang onto it for a day or two rather than sending it back immediately so they don't have to request an empty the next day. On most large North American style layouts, where the engineer plays agent/operator when they roll into town, there is no long view to serving the customers in that town.

Finally small layouts make us consider the frequency of delivery more than on a large layout. While some industries get switched every day, others receive attention only once a week or when the business requires it. While this is true on a large layout as well, it is more obvious that an infrequent shipper is doing too much business if the same crew switches them all the time.

The detail and discipline of operating a smaller layout will, I think, make for more interest than Pembroke's 10 turnouts would suggest.

Rene Gourley
Modelling Pembroke, Ontario in Proto:87

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santa fe 1958

Different!

Yes, I agree operations on a small layout is totally different.

Whilst having operated on a large layout (albeit limited), most of my experience is with my own small layout. I'll briefly explain how I go about things.

I use a combination of waybills and a switch list. There is a daily local freight, out and back, and that is all. Once a week, on average, a loaded stone train will run, and every other week an empty / loaded cattle train. Coupled with an interchange, that is it. I use a random generator to decide how many freight cars I'll set out at the various stops, but being the grain season, there are always boxcars / grain hoppers on every journey. Any other industry is at random, depending on how I take them out of my storage trays, along with several waybills, with different destinations, for the same freight car. The return empty workings, except for the grain traffic, which is loaded, will depend on how I feel 'unloading' has gone on. So some cars return next day, others, such as the coal or fuel, usually take three 'days' to unload. 

Furthermore, I always restage and re-sort the waybills out on a different day to when I'm operating.

Also, all turnouts are hand operated, there is a crossing gate to swing, and the waybills are kept in boxes, so the Conductor doesn't know what to expect until he has opened the box.

it takes me at least an hour just to run one train out and back.

And no, I don't find it boring or repetitive, as no two trips are ever the same.

Brian

Brian

Deadwood City Railroad, modeling a Santa Fe branch line in the 1960's!

http://deadwoodcityrailroad.blogspot.co

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musgrovejb

Advantages of Small Layouts

Built, worked-on, and ran a 12 x 12 room sized N-Scale layout for 6 years.  While the operation was fun, (multiple trains, classification yard, continuous run, industry switching, etc...), for one person it seemed overwhelming with no end in site in regards to finishing detail and scenery. 

Like a lot of people, I was "star struck" by the mega-sized basement layouts and major railroading operations that are  spotlighted in many model railroading publications. 

After reading about and viewing images/videos of smaller layouts, especially  switching layouts, I knew I had found what I was looking for.  Lance Mindheim's CSX Miami switching layout was especially an inspiration.

I tore down my N-Scale layout and for the last year have been working on an HO Switching layout, the Missouri Pacific Railroad, Willioughby, Arkansas branch. 

I now have a layout that is fun to operate without being overwhelming for one person. I can also concentrate more on detail and scenery.  Best of all, I can see progress towards completion!  (We all know it's never truly finished)

 

Modeling Missouri Pacific Railroad's Central Division, Fort Smith, Arkansas

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLENIMVXBDQCrKbhMvsed6kBC8p40GwtxQ

 

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fecbill

Deadwood City layout plan

Brain

What size is your layout? Do you have a track plan or sketch you could post? 

Bill Michael

Bill Michael

Florida East Coast Railway fan

Modeling FEC 5th District in 1960 

 

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fecbill

Florida City on the FEC

My layout depicts Florida City on the Florida East Coast circa 1960. It is a shelf switching layout modeling just the one area. It is roughly 18 inches wide by 15 ft long with another five feet for staging/fiddle yard. I am modeling the winter vegetable season (tomatoes, potatoes, cucumbers main crops) and used modeler license to move the Naranja rock quarry closer to Florida City. 

I use a random number generator in Excel to generate a switch list. A number may give none or the car or cars to switch. If a car is already on spot and the switch list calls for it , then I assume it is still loading (most industry here is packing houses so most cars are empty in load out. There is a small canning company that I send covered hoppers loaded to but could also have them take out culls to an animal feed processor off site. 

Here are the industries:

Florida Tomato, Fla City Canning, Southmost Vegetable, Golden Acres, Fla City Team track and Naranja Quarry. During this time train 41/42 the Homestead Turn sometimes had 3 or more sections. So there is plenty of operation.

At present have track down and place holder buildings. Time to begin scenery.

Bill Michael

Bill Michael

Florida East Coast Railway fan

Modeling FEC 5th District in 1960 

 

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jarhead

FLORIDA CITY

Bill, I think you are the first in modeling Florida City/FEC. That city has a colorful railroad history. The freight station is restored but not in use. I lived in Homestead, FL for 20 years. You need to post some photos of the layout. I would love to see it.

Nick Biangel 

USMC

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santa fe 1958

Database

Bill, not wishing to hijack this thread, but my plan is the first one on Page 6 of the Trackplan Database, provided by Bill Brillinger.

I'll have to start my own blog!

Brian

Brian

Deadwood City Railroad, modeling a Santa Fe branch line in the 1960's!

http://deadwoodcityrailroad.blogspot.co

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Rich_S

Thanks for posting this

Thanks for posting this thread. I have a small layout that I operate, it's a 24" x 80" hollow core door layout, that features a branch line of a class one railroad. Being limited in space, I use one section of the main line track as my open staging, where I transfer cars on and off of the railroad. I have to admit, I'd never thought about using a random number generator to determine the number of cars to deliver and/or pickup. I do use car cards from Albion Software, but since I dislike paperwork (probably stems from my career) I've never used a switch list. For me it just seems redundant, you have the car cards, why repeat the information on a switch list. Now I might have to rethink this as currently I switch every industry every time I operate. A randomized switch list would eliminate switching every industry and I believe this is possible with the Albion software. Thanks guys for the ideas and information.  

Cheers,

Rich S.

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Rene Gourley renegourley

Excel and other differences

Thanks for all the positive comments.  It's good to know I'm not alone.

Pembroke is set in 1905, a time when you still paid for electric lights by the bulb per month.  So I would like to stay away from obvious uses of computers.  That means I won't be using Excel to generate switch lists or traffic.  

Yet, I also want a true depiction of plausible events.  Beatty's sash and door should get coal every six days (say) to power their boiler, Pembroke Electric maybe had a car every other day, and so on.  Sure there will be random events also, but they should be set against a background of regularity.

So, I'm thinking about analog mechanisms for replicating the paperwork that the agent undertakes.

cheers,

Rene. 

Rene Gourley
Modelling Pembroke, Ontario in Proto:87

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rrfaniowa

Small layout operational interest

For me, watching local switching operations is exciting and completely engrossing. There is a small salt distributor in my town that the UP switches several times a week. When I’m able to catch them working it’s usually about a 30-40 minute show that is ripe with multiple moves all performed via only two turnouts. The relaxed operation, sights, and sounds are what I’m going after with my layout. It’s amazing how much operational interest can be achieved with a well-designed small layout (or, even a micro layout). 

I like operating on larger layouts, but for me, smaller is more interesting and achievable. For a great resource on achievable layouts (with interesting design sketches), see Trevor Marshall’s blog: http://themodelrailwayshow.com/cn1950s/?page_id=3063

Scott Thornton

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Rene Gourley renegourley

More Brio Operations

Thanks for the note, Scott.  I think if all that was interesting was the physical movements, a randomly generated switch list would be sufficient.  However, I'm interested in the purposeful movement of cars, and so, I'm looking for something more.

My leaning has been toward something similar to what Tony Thompson has described with car pockets and realistic-looking waybills, and I have Mike White's collection of Tony's blog postings on my must-read pile. Probably, Tony is way ahead of me, and I am reinventing a wheel; only mine will be rough and wobbly.

However, reading about waybills doesn't work all that well when there are two children at loose ends in the house, and so, I decided to put some of my thinking into action. I'm fortunate and thankful that my sister has put us up again, and that she has a good collection of Brio. The Girl wanted to play with this anyway, so, why not add a little structure to the play? We created a layout similar to Pembroke with one town, Cloudsdale, connected to staging representing Ponyville and beyond. Incidentally, she loves it; and will probably want to play again tomorrow.

Here she is with a train consisting of an empty candy car for the Cloudsdale Candy Factory, followed by an empty tippy car for the Jewel Mine, a load of feed for Cloudsdale Zoo and what looks like a sugar car behind her wrist, also destined for the Cloudsdale Candy Factory. The sugar car means this must be the Monday train.

Each train consists of some regular or periodic cars, a consumable car for locomotive coal, and a zero to three random shipments. For any shipments from Cloudsdale, I wrote an empty car bill on the reverse. So, if there was no empty car in Cloudsdale at the time, then we could get one from Ponyville when the daily train went to town. This worked well for random shipments, and for all shipments to Cloudsdale except the coal car.

The coal car worked by keeping track of how many trains had run to Ponyville with a paperclip on a slip of paper. Each time a train left, we moved the paperclip. When the paperclip got to the end, it was time to take the empty back to Ponyville and replace it with a load.

That was all well and good, but how did the loaded coal car get to Ponyville? Surely I (the agent, although I would think the order would go out from someone in the running department) would have had to order the coal some days in advance of actually needing the coal car in order to ensure there was one at Ponyville on the day.

The periodic shipments from Cloudsdale suffered the same problem. Although I sometimes had an empty feed car that could be used to ship candy, most often, I was sending away for an empty car, and the candy factory was left waiting for at least a day before they could get their licorice to market.

This problem is likely a result of coupling the empty car bill and the waybill. As agent, I should probably be more diligent in keeping sufficient empties around that I can usually fill orders quickly. If there are none, then I should anticipate my customers' needs and store some until they are needed. But where would I store them? Both Pembroke and Cloudsdale are crowded little facilities.

Hmm. It seems I will want to play again tomorrow too.

Rene Gourley
Modelling Pembroke, Ontario in Proto:87

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santa fe 1958

Link

Thanks for that link!

Looks like I'll be changing how I generate my switch list in the near future, although I might well keep the random generator for the interchange track, as these are all off-line industries.

Brian

Brian

Deadwood City Railroad, modeling a Santa Fe branch line in the 1960's!

http://deadwoodcityrailroad.blogspot.co

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Rene Gourley renegourley

Link

Glad I could help, Brian

Rene Gourley
Modelling Pembroke, Ontario in Proto:87

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David Husman dave1905

Small layouts

Based on my experience with real railroads it's my opinion that the smaller layout operations are actually less "random" than larger layouts.  Most small layouts are on an "industrial lead" scale.  By the time you get to that level, real railroads and industries have mechanisms that smooth out the operation to a large extent.   The larger layouts have more things that can add variability.  On a small layout, an industrial lead level, many of the variability is behind the operation. A lot of the "randomization" isn't particularly accurate either, although I know saying it is heresy.  There is a lot more sameness than modeler's notice or like to consider.  Industries tend to order the same number of cars of the same type of the same commodities and even use the same series of cars.  If you are using private cars it could even be the exact same set of cars.

Dave Husman

Visit my website :  https://wnbranch.com/

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Rene Gourley renegourley

Not that random

Quote:

There is a lot more sameness than modeler's notice or like to consider.  Industries tend to order the same number of cars of the same type of the same commodities and even use the same series of cars.

Absolutely, and this is what I was seeking to effect with the Brio experiment; that's why I can tell it's a Monday by the sugar car going to the candy factory.  Cars should move with a certain regularity, and if the period is a week, then you would see the same kind of car every Monday, say.

I have been thinking, however, that a week is too short a cycle, and I really need something more like a month.  In that case, I need a different way to find the required orders for a particular day.

Thanks for your insight,

Rene'

Rene Gourley
Modelling Pembroke, Ontario in Proto:87

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santa fe 1958

28 day cycle

i am trying out a 28 day cycle, although at the moment it's still a paper exercise. I'm ignoring the weekends at present. Some industries will see 3 deliveries one week, with only 2 the next, ie: alternate days, whilst others are either every 4 or 6 days. The two exceptions are the interchange track and the quarry, the former is still random, whilst the latter, albeit random, will depend more on what turns up at the junction to go down the branch.

Whilst certain aspects might seem repetitive, I have a small variety of non-Santa Fe cars, so for example, the Lumber merchant will receive traffic in Southern Pacific or Western Pacific boxcars, but it will not be the same one each time.

its the unusual traffic, that appears very infrequent, I'm still trying to get my head around how to order.

Brian

Brian

Deadwood City Railroad, modeling a Santa Fe branch line in the 1960's!

http://deadwoodcityrailroad.blogspot.co

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Rene Gourley renegourley

Regular deliveries

Hi Brian,

I see from your site that you have some sort of waybill operation.  How are you generating those regular waybills?  Does any of your regular traffic originate on the layout?  If so, how are you ordering the empties for them?

Thanks,
Rene'

Rene Gourley
Modelling Pembroke, Ontario in Proto:87

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santa fe 1958

Regular traffic

The only originating regular traffic is either grain or the quarry, though the latter isn't that regular. Being the grain season, there are always either boxcars or hoppers required, and they get regular empties, though at present I'm not really sure how to 'order' them, after all they can really only handle one car at a time. The quarry gets whatever is sent, so at times it has a surplus, but it is a small business affair. When 8 cars are loaded, that is when it is ready to depart, so it is not that regular. 

Everything else is inbound loaded and returning empty, so the idea of a graph with delivery days appeals to me.

i did try car cards with the waybills but it didn't feel right, as the Conductor, taking them on each trip up the branch, hence the waybills, switchlist and an Agents box at each location.

its still a learning process, but thanks for the suggestions etc, Rene.

Brian

Brian

Deadwood City Railroad, modeling a Santa Fe branch line in the 1960's!

http://deadwoodcityrailroad.blogspot.co

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Rene Gourley renegourley

Ordering Empties

It sounds like you and I have a similar challenge, Brian.  I'll be interested to hear what you come up with.  

Rene  

Rene Gourley
Modelling Pembroke, Ontario in Proto:87

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Rene Gourley renegourley

Another Round with the Brio

The kids were restless this morning after painting our faces, and so we decided to build a Brio layout and play trains some more. This gave me a chance to try out some of the ideas I've been working through since the last session.

In particular, I tried out some ideas with different states for waybills. I used four piles representing the following states:


  • Shipment Ready

  • Loading

  • Ready for Pickup

  • In Train



  •  
  •  


I also developed a calendar for regular shipments.

 

Now, to play, we pulled a number of pre-filled (orange) waybills, and looked for appropriate empty cars. If there were any in town, we could use them, but if there were not, we pulled out a matching (blue) empty car order, and left the waybill in the Shipment Ready. Then, we put the empty car and its order into the train that was forming in staging. I tried filling in the car number (well description, Brio cars don't have numbers for some reason), but with such a small selection of stock, it didn't really matter.

When the empty car arrived, we shunted it to its destination and moved the waybill and the empty car order into the Loading pile. It stayed there for a cycle, and then moved into the Ready for Pickup (well, mostly, there is a difference of opinion about how long it takes to load a car).

Finally, once the car had been marshalled into the train, we put it into the In Train pile, and drove it out to staging. There, we returned the waybill into the draw stack; I suppose we could have another pile, representing the time it takes for the car to get to its destination, but then we just would have needed more cars. Overall, this scheme seems to work pretty well, and soon, it will be time to graduate from Brio.

The Boy had fun turning the engine, which as I wrote before, requires a run all the way out to Golden Lake. I have a feeling that once we're really operating, I'm going to need a lot more stools!

Rene Gourley
Modelling Pembroke, Ontario in Proto:87

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Rene Gourley renegourley

Canada Atlantic Waybills

Actual paper from the Canada Atlantic is about as rare as hen's teeth. I don't collect it, but I do keep an eye on eBay lest some show up, and if nobody else looks like they are buying it, I'll bid on it to ensure it doesn't get thrown out. However, I don't have a good storage solution for the stuff, and no interest in acquisition, so I'd rather someone else held it and shared the information with me really.

I've only once ever come across a waybill from the Canada Atlantic, and that was about four years ago. It seems appropriate to bring it up now, as I'm experimenting with car forwarding. Four years ago, we were lucky that eBay allowed full scale images on their site. Nowadays, they have a smaller image with a zoom, which makes it difficult to save the actual image; I've kept this image in my Flickr account ever since.

Now, there are a couple of curiosities with these way-bills, apart from the hyphen. The first thing that leaps out at me is that the contents of the cars are not specified. They are unimportant, but it makes me wonder when they started being listed as later waybills include this information. Did the more standard format for waybills come into practice along with the car service rules in 1906? If that's the case, then I'm going to be looking for more modern Canada Atlantic waybills for Pembroke.

The second thing that is interesting is that they are both for multiple cars, and are consigned to the agent at the destination; the bill is also following. I presume that means the bill of lading is following, and perhaps the agent will use the bill to direct the cars once it arrives. The waybill on the left governs foreign cars, and St Polycarpe was a junction with the CP; this makes me wonder if cars on the CA all had CA waybills for their travels over the line, as opposed to travelling under the CP waybill with routing instructions included.

Rene Gourley
Modelling Pembroke, Ontario in Proto:87

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