Brad,   Atlas 'Customline'

Brad,

Atlas 'Customline' turnouts are 'DCC Compatible' - and your #20 feeders are perfect for dropping down to heavier gauge 'bus' wires under the layout.

Jim

Thanks Jim

You just saved me a whole wack of cash! cheers.

Brad

In fact

20 gauge wire is fine for a 10' railroad. You only need busses when you have a huge layout and lots of locos. The track itself is equal to about a 12 ga buss wire, and there is no difference between a 12" piece of thin wire connecting the end of a 10 foot buss to track and a short thin wire connecting the power pack directly to the track. Just make sure all of your rail joints carry current, which probably means soldering them together.

I you find this hard to believe, just look at the size of wire used inside the locomotives.  

pqe  

Peco code83 for me

I have used Peco code 83 (as have all my modelling friends) dead frog points to save hassle(I'm lazy) with droppers to all sidings. My own layout is a simple end to end shelve with hand of god point control, a Bachmann 45tonner is an ideal test loco, it runs through all my track without issue. I am in the UK so understand the cost issue for US modellers of using Peco. DCC system is from MERG with JMRI programming and an I pod touch for wireless control. I have no idea what gauge I used for the bus wire,it 's red/black!

Micro Engineering Turnouts

Hi Alco,

I plan to slowly convert to Micro Engineering turnouts. In fact, I need to buy 4 new turnouts for my new design. I like their prototypical design and the stiffness of the points as I plan to use my fingers to switch them in lieu of a switch machine or the oversized, un-prototypical Caboose Hobbies ground throws. I'm not happy with the Atlas points and their looseness, plus I had one fall apart on me. I haven't tried the Peco but I believe the throw is similar to ME? As well with the Micro Engineering, I like how they have the wood supports for the Osborn Model Canadian switch stand product which I have purchased. I am Canadian btw. I have plenty of Brit friends and at our annual Toronto train show, the British modular layout club is the best! Thanks for sharing your Peco information. Cheers.

Brad

@Pelsea

Thank you for your suggestions. I, however, plan to run both DC and DCC via a DPDT toggle switch. So I figure the easiest way to do so is run a buss and tap the feed wires into them and feeding the DC power pack and NCE DCC.

Here is a diagram of my plan: 

Today I ran the buss wires to the hidden staging/runaround/interchange which I will attach to connectors. I have also soldered the layout feeders but yet to tap into the buss wires which I plan to connect with suitcase connectors.

Thanks again.

Atlas Turnouts

The turnout in the initial photo is indeed an Atlas #8, which has an insulated frog.  It has a lug mounted under the ties to allow easy soldering of a feeder if you want to power the frog with a Frog Juicer or whatever.  Unlike earlier Atlas designs with stamped points, it has points cast from what appears to be the same sintered metal as the frog.  I have some of these on my layout and have been pleased with their performance.  The frog provides a long dead spot, so all mine are powered by Juicers.

Frog Juicers @wp8thsub

Hi Rob,

Thank you for your comment. I'm not exactly sure what a Frog Juicer does and how it would be useful for my layout. Jim's Atlas 'Customline' comment, the first one in response to this blog post, seemed to iron out my concerns. Is there something else I should know before enduring some possible electrical frustration?

cheers,
Brad

Frogs and feeders

The Frog Juicers won't work under DC. If you want both DC and DCC operation with live frogs, you'll need a mechanical solution for the polarity change. Auxilliary contacts on a switch machine/Bullfrog/BluePoint will work in both cases.

Skip the suitcase connectors and solder the feeders to the track buss; you've already had the iron out to solder the feeders to the rails.

More Juice

MRH sponsor Tam Valley Depot sells Frog Juicers  http://www.tamvalleydepot.com/ .  Essentially the Juicer is an automatic polarity reversing device that supplies constant power to the frog, and works with DCC only.  They are very easy to install.

Re: More Juice

Hi Rob, being new to DCC, why would I need a Frog Juicer? Plus I want to switch between DC and DCC (for now) so they won't work anyway.

Thanks, and thanks @Bobcatt. You're right. I don't need the suitcase connectors.

Brad

"why would I need a Frog

   The main reason is to automate frog polarity without needing mechanical switches such as a tortoise or a blue point controller. If you need powered frog a juicer does it automatically with no connection to the point throw mechanism.....DaveB 

Juicy

A Frog Juicer is simply the slickest way to deal with DCC polarity changes - automagically. It's especially helpful in complex trackwork situations where acute-angle crossings, slip-switches, and double crossovers reside. Wire it once and forget about it. No need to remember to flip a handful of toggle switches every time you pick a new route through the spaghetti bowl.

Thanks Bobcatt, you're right

Thanks Bobcatt, you're right no suitcases needed. @ wp8thsubi Rob,  I'm still not getting my question answered. I'm not electronic savvy, although I did wire DC blocks at the age of 15. I'm just asking... Do I need a Frog juicer? It's not a 'spaghetti bowl' or complicated with reverse loops, double slip switches. My small layout is turnout heavy. I need advice before any headaches.

Thanks lads,

Brad

Got Juice?

The question's been answered, but I'm not sure you're picturing what's going on with the turnout to see how those answers relate.  The metal frog on an Atlas turnout is electrically isolated from the rest of the rails.  The long dead section on the #8 can cause locos to stall.  A Juicer supplies power to the frog, and changes polarity depending on the route selected, to guard against stalls.  If your locos can negotiate the frog without stalling, no you don't need a Juicer to power it.  If not, you may want to consider powering the frog.  A Juicer will ONLY supply such power if you're running DCC, so if you plan to change back and forth to DC it won't work.  The product specifications on Tam Valley's web site should explain how Juicers work if you're curious.

More Juice

Any suggestions on whose frog juicer to use?

Thanks

Wayne

There's Only One

Tam Valley Depot is the sole manufacturer.  You can buy directly from them, but Fast Tracks also sells them.  There may be other sellers, but it's all the same product.

Juicer

@ wp8thsub

Rob, a juicer on Tam Valley's site costs $50.00 USD. Why don't I just scrap the Atlas turnout and buy a Micro Engineering DCC compliable one?

A real head scratcher...

Juicers are available in three flavors, mono ($15.99 US), dual ($31.95) and hex ($79.95) for one, two or six frogs.

I don't see what's more "DCC compliable" about a Micro Engineering turnout, unless you're just looking for a smaller frog.  They're set up the same with electrically isolated frogs, and the point/closure rail assembly stays the same polarity as the adjacent stock rail.  Either has the same degree of "compatibility" or "friendliness" with DCC.  The Atlas turnout you've been discussing is a #8, while the biggest you can get from ME is a #6 - that explains the size of the dead frog on one vs the other.  Atlas also offers #6 with a similar size frog to ME.

Again, there may be no need for electrifying the frog if you don't experience stalling.  You could be embarking on replacing turnouts before you know if they'll work as-is.