sldispatcher

I have a compatriot who has built an around the wall G scale shelf of a business.  He wants to be able to control the train remotely and have it start stop at various places on demand.

Any recommendation on a SIMPLE control system to do that?

 

David C

Shreveport

Reply 0
dkaustin

@ David C

Not to steal your post, but I'm located in Shreveport too.  What are you modeling?

Den

 

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     Dennis Austin located in NW Louisiana


 

Reply 0
lexon

Timer

One suggestion. Get an LGB timer control box. It is made to do this. Google it. I have seen the same setup in a couple local places.

Rich

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

existing control method?

Dear Dave, How is the G-scale train powered at the moment? Analog? DCC? Other? How many "intermediate stops" are required? Are they at perscribed positions, or does your friend literally want to be able to "halt the train anywhere, at any time"? Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr
Reply 0
sldispatcher

more 'splainin'

Open slate at the moment.  Can be traditional analog.

Open stops could be 10 - 14.

Single circle of track.  No switches.  They just want to come out..hit a button..and the train travel until it gets to a point prescribed by that button and it stops.  It is being used in a corporate workroom with multiple cubicles to signify a major event for that day in a fun way.

For instance, if it is time for everyone to have a "dance break"...the train fires up and heads to that "station stop"..letting the workers know that they can stop what they are doing and the music will play/etc.

Forward thinking company..just need some ideas on the control system to do that.

Reply 0
sldispatcher

we've chatted

Dennis:

We conversed on here a while back.  I'm with the Sue Line group of Dr. Kamm's.

DC

Reply 0
dkaustin

I figured so...

I also read your comments about RailPro. I said to myself, it's got to be on the Sue Line. Den

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     Dennis Austin located in NW Louisiana


 

Reply 0
sldispatcher

Good or bad thing

That could be a good or a bad thing!

We run counter intuitive to a lot of the "thought leaders" on operations but we keep 12-14 people happy running weekly for over 23 years of my own involvement.  That's not an easy task in the model railroad operations world.

Which leads back to the original topic.  When someone recommends the right system for this fellow's loop of G scale track, I'll know it immediately.

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

Some options...

Dear David,

A couple of solutions come to mind:

Analog Option #1 : simple "dead zone" system

IE
- a gapped loco-length "stopping section" in one rail at each of the perscribed stopping locations,
- with power feed to each stopping-section switched by a relay
- relays triggered by a derivative of the "flip flop" circuit as seen on Rob Paisley's "Misc electronics for Model Railroads"

http://home.cogeco.ca/~rpaisley4/CircuitIndex.html#Automatic

PROs
- should be capable of handling as much current as the LGB loco might demand
- very simple to troubleshoot
- compatible with any loco (locos can be freely swapped, system will still work)
- compatible with loco facing-either direction (Loco can be end-for-end swapped, system will still work)
- Cost effective

CONs
- hardware reliant
- may require arguably more wiring runs (dependent on how the system is actually designed/distributed/deployed)
- requires hardware and circuitry design of the 555-timer-based "Human-Input interface"
 

Analog option #2 : Analog with "smart" controls

Basically the same as above, except using a TI Launchpad, Arduino, or similar cheap microprocessor as the "recieves the button presses, triggers the required stopping-section relays".

Suggest checking the "Dawson Station" blog for one example
http://dawson-station.blogspot.com.au/2010/02/how-dids.html

PROs
- should be capable of handling as much current as the LGB loco might demand
- reasonably simple to troubleshoot
- compatible with any loco (locos can be freely swapped, system will still work)
- compatible with loco facing-either direction (Loco can be end-for-end swapped, system will still work)
- Cost effective
- never stops, always "fail-safe"
(no active detection means the loco will _always_ keep moving until it gets to the location intended by sheer dead-reckoning)

CONs
- both hardware and software reliant
- may require arguably more wiring runs (dependent on how the system is actually designed/distributed/deployed),
although waaaaaaay less than the 555-based system
(no inter-555-chip "logic jumpering", all logic handled by microprocessor code and "which button was pressed" input commands) 
- requires hardware, circuitry, and software design of the Launchpad-based "Human-Input interface"

 

DCC option #3 : NCE Powercab with MiniPanel "brains" and BD20/AIU feedback

Levering the internal macro capability of the MiniPanel, along with Track-detection BD20/AIU feedback, a DCC-controlled loco can be predictably triggered, and run until it hits the desired location (as detected by the BD20s). Additional fucntionality can be introduced thru the iuse of DCC, IE a sound equipped loco can play various sounds/tunes, additional accessory decoders can easily provide related action/animation.

While arguably requiring less cabling (theoretically a Track Buss OUT around the layout powering everything and sending commands, and a Throttle buss Back returning feedback/detection), the programming and configuration may be tedious for some.

Suggest checking James Ingram's "Auto-Controls" website
http://track2.com/ingram/home/index.main.iac.shtml 

PROs
- easier design of the system interfaces (trigger buttons direct to the MiniPanel, detection via AIUs)
- more capability in terms of "what the train can do if/when triggered"
- off-the-shelf components 

CONs
- Cost for a "simple run-to-the-place-we-want-it-to" system
- Requires direct programming of the MiniPanel
(both easier and harder, depending on the application and who you ask...)
- Requires a decoder installed in all active locos
(cannot just "drop a fresh one on the track and go")
- Requires a decoder installed in all active locos
(This is G scale, current draw and decoder choice will be critical for long-term reliability)
- Does not handle "spontaneous" swapping of locos well
(automated commands are address-specific)
- Does not handle "swap loco end-for-end" conditions well
(commands are loco-direction-specific, not "direction of travel" specific)


DCC option #4 : NCE Powercab with JMRI "brains" and BD20/AIU feedback

Similar to above, but replaces the dedicated MiniPanel microprocessor with a generic PC + JMRI software + Logix Scripts + PC<> DCC interface

PROs
- same as above

CONs
- same as above
- adds a PC which MUST be turned ON and left-running for the system to operate
(more parts, more complexity)
- adds "PC problems" (Operating System, Driver and Interface, HDDs stability, App stability, etc etc) to the potential problemshooting mix...
(Willy Occum was onto something)
- adds manu more AIU units to cover the required number of "trigger input" switches
(replacing the human-interface Input circuitry lost when the MiniPanel was removed...)

 

Hope this gives you something to start with...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS I don't "reccomend the right solutions",
(and respectfully, waiting for someone to drop "the perfect solution in your lap" will only result in you waiting a long time... ).

Rather, I seek to make suggestions that hopefully spur the modeller on to nut-out the best solution for themselves...
(I'm not standing there in the room with you,
you'll be able to "develop the most-appropriate solution-for-the-specific-problem-criteria in-the-field"
far faster than anyone else can "blind, by remote control"...)
 

Reply 0
sldispatcher

Thanks

Excellent review.

If you had to set it up and wanted a fool proof system, what would you do?

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

What would I do?

Dear David,

I'd want to ask a lot more qualifying questions, and have a lot more "Given and druthur" data,
before jumping at any option...

All of the above options will achieve the goal as stated, 
but as you can see, there's a range of hardware complexity,
software complexity (Inc both "open" and "closed" software systems),
and circuitry complexity which needs to taken-into-account,

not to mention the actual budget for the mission in question...

Also, is this a "fresh" install, or a retro-fit to a G scale circuit which already exists?

EDIT : re-read the OP, noted that the loop already exists,
although we don't have confirmation what the current control system is.

This may sway the balance particularly if the existing control/wiring is not conducive to retro-fitting BD20 current-detectors, or up-to-snuff RE DCC requirements...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Reply 0
Graeme Nitz OKGraeme

My Input

I built a couple of commercial installations In Melbourne when I lived there. One required the train to stop at several selectable locations. I just gapped one rail at this point to isolate a loco long section and used an automotive headlight relay to power the isolation section when RELEASED. A rotary switch selected which relay would operate thus removing the power from that isolation section.

I used a length of trailer cable which had 8 wires. I had 5 stopping sections so there was a common and 1 wire for each location plus 2 spare. I ran the cable on top of the board and at each location stripped off a length of insulation pulled out the appropriate wires connected it to the relay which was glued down with silicon adhesive. The rotary switch had 6 positions. The 6th was for continuous running.

If you looked down from on top it wasn't particularly attractive but you needed a ladder to do this!

I used the automotive relays because they were way more robust than the LGB equivalent and less than half the price. This system worked for years and as far as I know is still in operation.

Graeme Nitz

An Aussie living in Owasso OK

K NO W Trains

K NO W Fun

 

There are 10 types of people in this world,

Those that understand Binary and those that Don't!

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