Greg Williams GregW66

I have been catching up on back issues of MRH and came across one of the $500 layout ideas. I was struck by several things. 

  1. You don't have to spend a fortune to build a layout
  2. Making use of non-conventional materials for layout construction
  3. There is no excuse for not having a layout
  4. Inglenooks are much simpler yet just as challenging as a John Allen Timesaver

I have a John Allen Timesaver that is almost complete but suffers from several problems. 

I used 3/4" ply attached to a 2x3 frame. It's incredibly heavy. I used Atlas switches with under the table Atlas switch machines and attempted to control them with push buttons and relays so that I could have route indicator lights on a control panel. It's incredibly complicated. I also find the track plan of the Timesaver to be complicated when compared to the various Inglenook plans that are so easily discovered by googling "Inglenook Siding"

The $500 layout idea that I came across was from the September 2013 issue; Chicago Fork. I was interested in the idea of using foam core for a layout base. While the layout described uses the 3-2-2 design of the Inglenook, I wanted a 5-3-3 design and no sector plate. I also wanted to accommodate 50' rolling stock. This results in a 6'2" long layout 1' wide. While larger than the layout in the article, I believe that the foam core is strong enough to facilitate a larger module. Here is a simple drawing of the plan I intend to build. 


rackplan.JPG 

The foam core arrived today while I was out and I just got confirmation of shipping on my NCE PowerCab. I am also finally taking the DCC plunge! I will post as things progress, I hope to do module building on my day off on Friday so will post sometime after that. My hope is that by blogging every step of the way, I can inspire or inform someone else along the way. If not, I'll at least have a record of my build.

GregW66

Greg Williams
Superintendent - Eastern Canada Division - NMRA
Reply 1
Michael Tondee

It needs to be said.....

that by all accounts, John Allen never intended the Timesaver to be a layout, the basis for a layout or a part of a layout.  It was and is nothing more than a switching puzzle purposely designed to be difficult.

I don't know what exactly Alan Wright had in mind with the Inglenook but in the end it's a much simpler and more prototypical arrangement than a Timesaver. I'm glad you found your way to the Inglenook and look forward to seeing your progress.

Michael

Michael, A.R.S. W4HIJ

 Model Rail, electronics experimenter and "mad scientist" for over 50 years.

Member of  "The Amigos" and staunch disciple of the "Wizard of Monterey"

My Pike: The Blackwater Island Logging&Mining Co.

Reply 1
Prof_Klyzlr

Welcome to the Party...

Dear Greg,

Welcome to the party! Some references that might help you along the way:

http://www.carendt.com/articles/build-peeks-pike/
/> (Micro layout build, inc design and construction of a Foamcore "domino")

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/18011
/> (O 2R layout, based on Chicago Fork. Useful Foamcore info contained therein)

NB that the common "large size" foamcore sheet is 60" x 40".
This means that the longest single continuous member you can achieve is a 5' piece.
To form the "top" surface of a> 5' long domino,
you will be best to laminate 2 layers of foamcore,
with what ammounts to a lap-joint of a 5' piece and a 1' x 1' 2" "almost square" filler.

Bad TEXT Graphic follows
(Looking at the lamination "long-edge on")

L = long 5' x 1' piece
S = short 1' 2" x 1' "almost square" piece

LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLSSSS
SSSSLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Correct, solid, and rigid lamination can be achieved with extremely-thin skreed full-strength white (PVA) glue, a flat surface, and a few piles of typically weighty books from your RR reference library...

NB that by making the lower layer of the lamination 5mm smaller around each edge,

IE

LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLSSSS
  SSSLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

you'll form a "lip" that makes hotgluing the domino vertical sides/end pieces to the deck soooo much easier. (It also will firm up the domino, as the lower-layer will effectively sit inside the "box" formed by the sides-and-ends.

L = long 5' x 1' piece
S = short 1' 2" x 1' "almost square" piece
E = End piece
C = crossbrace piece
(Long side piece not shown)

LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLSSSS
ESSSLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLE
E        C        C        C       E
E        C        C        C       E
E        C        C        C       E

As a sidenote, visually you may wish to rotate the trackplan as-shown clockwise a few degrees. This breaks the "long spur is obviously parallel to layout edge" visually, and can also give some interesting scenic angles to work with... (see the discussion in the "O 2R layout" thread).

Again, welcome to the party, if there's any info or assistance you need, feel free to ask...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS I've assumed you are looking to build a "domino" type layout, and not a "full Proscenium" style unit.
If that's incorrect, and you're keen to take on the full integrated backdrop+ceiling "proscenium" style, there is some more info available which would likely be helpful before you take X-acto knife to Foamcore...

Reply 1
pschmidt700

Proscenium?

Isn't that what my doctor checks? Just kidding. ... Really insightful construction techniques, Prof. Although I wonder if PVA has a comparable substitute over here. Plain old white glue doesn't seem strong enough. Maybe laminate flooring glue -- it's a PVA type.
Reply 0
Greg Williams GregW66

Thanks

For the tips! I am planning on using a glue called "Weldbond". I have had experience with using this for many different applications and it has always been a success. http://www.weldbond.com/

I will examine your suggestions fully in the morning and also discover the meaning of Proscenium. LOL

GregW66

Greg Williams
Superintendent - Eastern Canada Division - NMRA
Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

Proscenium dis-ambiguation, Foamcore glue choice

Dear Greg,

"Proscenium" is a term from the Theatre and Event Production world.
It takes the visual-art/photography idea of a picture frame enhancing the scene/picture/image within it,

and applies it to larger/moving objects, such as theatre productions, concerts, and model RR layouts.

(Any time there is "something you should be focussing your attention on",
with a blank/solid-color frame around it,
or at least a blank/solid-color "top and bottom fascia" to limit the Up/Down viewing angles,
it's broadly considered "a proscenium").

Such layout designs, particularly for exhibition and "general public show" work are common in the UK and Aust.

It is possible to present a "domino" layout "proscenium style" by simply placing a front fascia or frame between the scene and the viewer, check the previously-linked "Peeks Pike" article for a "now you see it, now you don't" example.

However, in mechanical benchwork terms, the term "proscenium" is generally used to indicate a form of benchwork which is not just "base" or "domino",
(a la Freemo/Ntrak module),

but carries it's own integrated backdrop/ceiling/lighting-valance.
(a la "Red Stag Lumber Co",

"Brooklyn : 3AM",



Lau_02_s.jpg 

"Muskrat Ramble",


"Hangman Lumber Co",


etc etc)

IE
- The sectorplate staging-section of "Chicago Fork" is more "domino" in form factor,
- The "onscene"/"onstage" section is clearly "proscenium" style by design.

That such a small layout effectively has both benchwork styles integrated into the single assembly is simply a function of the overall "micro layout" size. A larger layout could literally make use of 1x "Proscenium module" and 1x "Domino module" to create the same "appropriate module for it's purpose" combination in a larger form-factor.
(As can be seen with the O scale 2rail version of "Chicago Fork").


Click here to  try your hand at building a 1/10th scale Straight 4x2x2 Proscenium Module
PDF file, just download, print, laminate to cereal-box cardboard, cut, and assemble

 

RE Glue for Foamcore,

For laminating, a ultra-thin skreed layer of liquid glue works well. I've always had acrylic PVA on hand,
(white woodworking glue), and it's worked great. However, when it comes to any 90-degree, tab-in-slot, or other kind of foamcore<> foamcore joint, the lo-temp Hotglue has been my go-to weapon of choice.

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Reply 0
Greg Williams GregW66

More than meets the eye

There is more to this than I expected. I will attempt a simple domino style module and perhaps add a Proscenium at a later date. 

I will have to figure out a method of lamination to achieve what I want (72") because my sheets are 20"x30" although I do get what you were talking about with a full 5' piece and a shorter piece. I am thinking at this point a 1' splice piece laid out like this:

XXXXXXXXXXXX

                      SSSSSS               SSSSSS    

Two sheets that are 24"x12" and one that is 26"x12" then framing the thing with foam core.

I am also starting to rethink the use of 50' cars. If I stuck to 40', it would of course be shorter. I could probably squeeze it into 66".... decisions decisions.

 

Greg Williams
Superintendent - Eastern Canada Division - NMRA
Reply 0
barr_ceo

If size and weight are limitations...

If size and weight are limiting factors, mebbe you should look at another scale?

My Inglenook (under construction) is a T-Trak quad length module - a little over 4 feet  long, and 14 inches deep. I has not only the Inglenook, but two mainlines and a connection from the Inglenook siding to the mains.  I'm going to be using the Berrett Hill touch toggles for double-sided control with indication. Just waiting (impatiently) for the Kato snap switch bases to be released... any day now...

Click to view full size...  (not working... every OTHER picture I've posted or linked here has, but this one won't. {shrug})

 

The full story of building this is over on the T-Trak Wiki web site - Should have an update next week that will show details of the road and parking lot markings, and the chain link fence with barbed wire. Working on it tonight, but weather might not cooperate for pictures till later.

As for weight - framework is 1/4" birch ply, with 1" foam top inset and pinned and glued into the frame. Length is 48.74 inches... but I worked out how to do it with nothing longer than 48 inches, since I'm living in an apartment now and don't have access to a table saw any more! It's very light... I'll try to remember to weigh it when I take it outside for progress photos.

It's designed for DCC operations, with 44-tonners or an SW9 running the plant, though I think an SD7 or SD9 would work too. Cars are the short "beer can" tank cars.


Yeah... 44 tonners... in N scale... with factory-installed DCC... from Bachmann, of all people!

 

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

Weight, and dealing with shorter sheet dimensions

Dear Foamcore Curious,

Barr, a simple, properly constructed 2" thick domino constructed from 5mm foamcore a la "Pikes Peek", 

with a 3-thickness "roadbed"
(2x Deck/datum layers as described above, + a just-narrower-than-the-sleepers "roadbed"/ballast-profile layer),

and a length of O 2R code 100 track can easily support a 2-kilo (4 pound) O 2R brass GP35 with zero deflection over a typical 400mm/16" span. Rest assured, in any scale smaller than O 2R, it's not a weight-loading/rigidity/structural-integrity issue, foamcore will support most typical train weights,
and I'm pretty sure would even take-on Mike C's "deliberately overweight" HO cars...
(Gn15 modellers have been using it for years, suggesting that Scale =/= weight-loading)

FWIW


nch_copy.jpg 

nch_copy.jpg 

Greg, it sounds like you are looking to build a "Home" or "Light Touring" version.
(IE will rely on sitting on a supporting shelf or similar, no need for overkill wood or metal framing).

If you are forced to use the shorter Foamcore sheets 
(and I would strongly reccomend trying to find the longer sheets if at all possible,
If the joints are not correctly lapped, issues will follow, just as they would with any sheet material),

then a "Clipboard" style format might be your best option.
http://mmrrc.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/wetterau-food-services-micro-layout_26.html

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS Greg, send me a PM, there is more info available which will be helpful...

PPS A quick search using the MRH Search engine will get you this info, but calc-ing a typical 'Nook length is reasonably quick and simple.

- Assume loco and cars are same length

- a 5:3:3 nook takes 11 "units"(car lengths) along the critical path
(switchlead <> mainline turnout <> 5-car track)

- a 3:2:2 nook takes 8 "units"(car lengths) along the critical path
(switchlead <> mainline turnout <> 3-car track)

- If we're using HO 40's, figure 6" per car

Ergo
5:3:3 = 66" approx
3:2:2 = 48" approx

(if you rotate the trackplan slighly so the "critical path" is diagonal accross the rectangular top surface of the domino, you can squeeze an extra inch or so...)

- Up the car lengths to 50', and we're eating 8" per car

Ergo
5:3:3 = 88" approx
3:2:2 = 64" approx

 
Reply 0
ctxmf74

" I wanted a 5-3-3 design and

" I wanted a 5-3-3 design and no sector plate. I also wanted to accommodate 50' rolling stock. This results in a 6'2" long layout 1' wide. While larger than the layout in the article, I believe that the foam core is strong enough to facilitate a larger module. Here is a simple drawing of the plan I intend to build."

    If you want to save some work go to a construction re-cycle shop or  a door shop and look at hollow core closet doors. They are about 6' 8" long and come in many widths from 12 inches or wider. You could just glue foam sheet on top and start laying track. I'm not sure how much they weigh but I'm old and they still feel light to me :> )  If you have room the extra 6 inches would  give some extra switching room either as lead or industrial trackage....DaveB

Reply 0
barr_ceo

Prof, foamcore is all fine

Prof, foamcore is all fine and good, and I'm sure it will support the weight... but it has two distinct disadvantages.

You can't put a below-grade contour in it - hence my preference for 1" insulating foam. T-Track modules are only about 70mm (2.75") from the bottom of the frame to the railhead, so there's no ROOM for 2" of foam on top of foamcore framework.

In addition, the modules use Kato Unitrack as the standard, and simply clip together using the rail joiners (a pretty secure system, actually...). While someone that was aware of a module's use of foamcoare as framework probably wouldn't do it, I've seen folks disassembling plywood framed modules by simply inserting a flat screwdriver between the modules and twisting. Foamcore may be tough... but it's not that tough. In the sizes I'm talking about, (a standard T-Trak single module is only 310mm long!) the weight of plywood isn't important enough to worry about.

I just weighed a single module, ready for track.  It has a 1/4" plywood frame, sections of 2x2 drilled out with 1/4-20 nuts pressed and glued in for adjustment bolts, and a 1" foam top. The postal scale says it is 12.1 oz, or 343 grams. The weight just isn't significant, and it's much more durable.

With regards to weight loading - the design consideration isn't so much for total weight as it is for concentrated weight.

My father was an Aeronautical Engineer, who learned his trade when aircraft were still built of wood and fabric. The last aircraft he worked on before retirement (that he could talk about...) was the A-10.  One of his favorite stories was that the determining factor for the strength of floors in commercial aircraft was... women's high heels. 

Seems that svelte 120 pound stewardess, when her weight fell on one one-quarter-inch-square heel of one shoe, created a static load of 1920 pounds per square inch!

Railroad track - both 1:1 and scale - does an excellent job of distributing the weight over a large area.

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

Below Track earthworks with Foamcore

Dear Barr,

"Foamcore can't accomodate under-track earthworks"?

Um, like this? (NB the layout and loco shown is On30, that trestle is over 5 inches tall)

green_04.jpg 

Guess it depends on whether One is the kind of person who can visualise "building up to a given roadbed level from nothing, in 3D space" (IE common to any L-girder, or sheet-material derived design),

or the kind of person who conceptually/visually needs to start with a oversize block of "stuff",
and carve away anything which isn't "the statue of david" (IE more sculpture-style forming thru material reduction).

Both are valid ways to build a layout, but the differing approaches favour differing "design conceptualisation" skillsets...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

 

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

Module handling, comparable size/weight, OPs purpose

Dear Barr,

Quote:

 I've seen folks disassembling plywood framed modules by simply inserting a flat screwdriver between the modules and twisting. 

That the users are having to use such (arguably overkill) tools to seperate such a relatively small 310x300 module suggests to me a more-concerning lack of respect for the modules in question.

My "Toorong" On30 layout, formed from 3x 1x4 foamcore modules, (the curved "Coramba Rd" trestle module shown earlier), required zero tools to assemble or disassemble. and was "flat on floor" to "RTR" in under 15 minutes, inc running the temp DCC throttle buss and getting the lighting fired up, with a 1-person setup crew.
(properly engineered and deployed alignment system, over-centre catches, and flush railjoint joints helped... )

Quote:

 Foamcore may be tough... but it's not that tough. 

I agree in a raw material-vs-material sense. However, "Camp 4", "Brooklyn : 3AM", "Yallah2", "Bindle Mine", and "Toorong" stand as live-fire examples of long-term survival of appropriately designed and constructed units, with 1000's of road kilometres and many load-in/show/load-out cycles over the last 15 years.

That foamcore "Domino" shown earlier has easily 7 years of "testbed" duty under it's belt,
(you should see the array of markings, pin holes, and other surface distress on the top-side... ),
prior to it getting weighed on-camera...

That domino has also survived falling repeatedly from 6' bookshelves, being rolled around in cars, and many other "uncaring" treatment situations, and still lives to serve. (The lack of weight tends to translate to a lack of inertia, and thus far less module-distroying impact force when dropped. Foamcore modules "bounce" more than they "hit" ).

Quote:

In the sizes I'm talking about, (a standard T-Trak single module is only 310mm long!) the weight of plywood isn't important enough to worry about.

I just weighed a single module, ready for track.  It has a 1/4" plywood frame, sections of 2x2 drilled out with 1/4-20 nuts pressed and glued in for adjustment bolts, and a 1" foam top. The postal scale says it is 12.1 oz, or 343 grams. The weight just isn't significant,...

All agreed. However, Greg is logically looking at trying to get an entire HO 'nook on a 6x1.
Foamcore stands a good chance of being able to accomplish benchwork to the required dimensions,
(even if a "Clipboard" system is required to break it into 2 sections),

in a gross weight only slightly more than the nominated single T-trak module (310mmx300mm),
which, unless I'm mistaking the module form-factor in question, is around < 1/6th Greg's required size?

(Sure we can form a 1x6 out of 6x "single T-trak" modules,
or 2x 1x3 Foamcore "clipboard modules",
but more joints = more chance of alignment, mechanical, and electrical issues).

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS Greg, I guess one issue we haven't covered is:
- do you have existing wood/metalworking skills?
- do you have wood/metalworking tools?
- do you live in a situation/have "modelling time available" which would permit use of said tools?

Hint: "Chicago Fork" and the foamcore modules which make up "Toorong" were built between 23:00 and 03:00 on weeknights in the livingroom of a duplex,
with a Significant Other asleep in the next room,
neighboursand  inc newborns asleep downstairs and next door.

Not a single complaint or issue, and all with virtually-silent typical-modellers-toolbox tools... 
(Ruler, marking pen, sharp X-acto knife, PVA and hotglue,
piles of "weight" books from the RR library, and a flat surface)

Reply 0
Dave O

Welcome to the club, Greg.

Can't really go wrong with a 5-3-3 Inglenook in HO scale.  You will discover that not only is the track plan relatively simple (and economical, only 2 switches); but it packs a lot of operational variety into a fairly small space.  And if that were not enough, it is very easy to expand, just add more to the ends!  

The Professor prefers the term "Protonook"; as it better conveys the thought process behind operating an "Inglenook Shunting Puzzle" as a small piece of a larger transportation system rather than a puzzle -- it works either way, just depends on how you want to play with it.  Nick and I are currently building O-scale 3-2-2 "Chicago Forks" ... the Prof does a pretty good job of untangling my confusion on the Protonook scheme of operations in the first several pages of our MRH "blog": 

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/portable-oscale-layout-aka-chicago-fork-12196898.

Nick is using the standard domino style modules, while I am opting for the full Monty with the built in proscenium.

I can understand how a frame built of 2"x3" with 3/4" plywood would be very heavy ... .  Nick used a more conventional approach to building his dominoes, and they came in at around 18# if I recall, which isn't too bad.  With an attached proscenium, that construction method would be quite a bit heavier; so I went with the foam core ... except, living in Sri Lanka, I could only get half of what I needed ... so mine is a mixed bag of foam core and 6 mm plywood.  I am just now assembling the modules so really haven't had a chance to weigh them; but the individual pieces are pretty light as a group.  (And I just purchased my lights ... two T8 4' LED 18W 6500K tube lights.  They have a built in reflector and frosted "glass", so won't need a fixture (other than the two end plugs) -- also no ballast required, so they come in at about 3/4 lb. each ...  

I think for ease of construction (glue and knife) a foam core frame with an extruded foam top (1-2" thick depending on how much variation in ground form you wanted) would work well and be easier than laminating foam core?

*Using a hollow core door with extruded foam as suggested earlier by DaveB, would be another light-weight idea that would be easy to put together ...

I am not sure I can get the extruded foam here, all I've ever seen is the white beaded stuff ... so I will use a piece of foam core as the first layer of my baseboard ... its main purpose being structural, acting as a web/skin to stiffen the module frames.  If I can find 1" extruded foam I'll go with a layer of that to "carve" my ground level into ... if not, I'll give the beaded stuff a go and probably cover it with a thin layer of hardshell (plaster cloth).  I will use foam board for my sub-road bed as well, if nothing else to keep the track work smooth.

Any rate, there are a lot of ways to do things, some will work better for you and meet your needs better than others ... take a look around and pick one and give it a go.  If it doesn't work, try something else ... just be sure to have fun.  Cheers.  Dave O

Reply 1
Greg Williams GregW66

Boss says NO!

I actually had visions of moving from HO to On30 and building a small 3-2-2 Inglenook. However, when I mentioned this in conversation to the CFO of the household, I was told that I had too much as it was and there was no way I was going to invest in another scale when I had $$ tied up in HO. I don't have the heart to sell what I have so a change of scale or guage is out unless I completely divest of what I have. 

I see her point and have settled on good old HO.

GregW66

Greg Williams
Superintendent - Eastern Canada Division - NMRA
Reply 0
Greg Williams GregW66

Home vs Travel

I don't intend to travel with this module(s) ever. I intend to scenic it with some craftsman and scratchbuilt structures and from my previous portable layout experience know that highly detailed models don't travel well. Durability is not an issue when it comes to transportation.

I do have tools and experience with wood. I have been in the hobby since I was 10 and I am pushing 50. I have built several "conventional" and portable layouts privately and with a club. I have handlaid track and turnouts.

My goal with this is to get a little into DCC and particularly installing decoders. I have a electronics and computer background and want to play with that, now that I am in a totally non technical career. I also want to build and display some highly detailed structures, locomotives and rolling stock. I realize that a "switching game" isn't the best for highly detailed models but I will be the only operator. In these parts there aren't a lot of modelers and I don't expect company. I might also want to dabble in photography.

The philosophy is to build a glorified test track that I can also have some fun with and display some models on. The layout will ultimately live in my home office.

Modeling time is available. I am lucky in that I have a career that allows me to organize my time the way I wish (for the most part). Some days I work from 9am to 10pm and other days I have most of the day free to myself. My kids are almost all gone out of the house and I work from home so all those things combined make for ample time. I have also just completed my Masters degree this spring and find I have time on my hands. I am getting back into the hobby for pure enjoyment and keeping a healthy, balanced mental state.

My tools are in a garage that is uninhabitable, even as a workshop so I would prefer to use materials and methods that allow me to work in doors without much fuss or mess. That is the reasoning behind the foam core.

I had intended to put knife to foam and start gluing but it seems I have a couple of other design and plan issues to work out. One thing is for certain. I am very appreciative of the comments and help that are being offered. THANK YOU! 

GregW66

Greg Williams
Superintendent - Eastern Canada Division - NMRA
Reply 0
Greg Williams GregW66

Dave O

I have read your blog with interest. I will be returning to it when I start operations. Which I hope is soon, one of the reasons for picking it was the speed of getting it up and running.

I did consider other things, such as hollow core doors and extruded insulation foam but was very interested in using the foam core. My only regret is that in my parts the largest size available is 20"x30" I have 9 sheets of it so that goes in the "givens" column. 

GregW66

Greg Williams
Superintendent - Eastern Canada Division - NMRA
Reply 0
Greg Williams GregW66

Car and Spur lengths

I am going to get out some track and cars and lay it out. I like to work visually.

GregW66

Greg Williams
Superintendent - Eastern Canada Division - NMRA
Reply 0
Greg Williams GregW66

Some final decisions

I have played with some track and measured some stuff. I'd like to allow 8.5" for a locomotive as I have some GP40-2 and GP38-2 I'd like to use on occaision. I plan several diesel builds in the coming months and having a place to use them is essential. I am using old Peco short turnouts and they are 7.5" long. Somewhat shorter than an Atlas turnout that I was basing my measurements on. I think I have come to a compromise with the 5-3-3 vs. 3-2-2 and 40' vs. 50' rolling stock. I will build it as a 5-3-3 for 40 footers and a 3-2-2 for 50 footers! Best of both worlds and fewer compromises. The likely venue for the layout when in use and when building is the desk in my office. It measures 63" and I can allow a couple of inches overhang on each side so I am figuring 66". 

The question that is left is what is the best way to laminate my 20x30 inch foamcore boards for maximum strength. 

GregW66

Greg Williams
Superintendent - Eastern Canada Division - NMRA
Reply 0
ctxmf74

"The question that is left is

"The question that is left is what is the best way to laminate my 20x30 inch foamcore boards for maximum strength.'

     I think it depends on how you plan to support the layout on the desk and what kind of hardware you'll be using under the layout?  If the layout has longer spans between supports it would probably be easiest to cut some 1X2's or 1X3's to 66 inches long then glue and staple the base sheets on top of them and then add more foam layers with staggered joints as needed for scenery. These longitudinal stringers could be spaced one at the front to accept a fascia and one at the rear for a backdrop and depending on the benchwork width one or more running down the space in the center. If you plan on lots of under the layout hardware like switch motors or power strips, etc. it might be handy to glue a thin sheet of plywood onto the stringers before adding the foam so you have a screw friendly layer where ever you want to mount something.The main thing to keep in mind that once the foam is covered with scenery you are not gonna care what's under there since you don't plan to move it and it's not big enough to worry about sound transmission from trains rolling.....DaveB

Reply 0
waldo617211

foam base

How would coroplast work?? Has anyone used it?

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

Coroplast aka "Fluteboard" for benchwork?

BUMPed June 2021 in response to a PM inquiry from "Darren" (prrfirefighter) Re substituting Coroplast/"Fluteboard" in place of genuine 3A Composites "Foam-Cor" and equivalents

Dear ???

Coroplast aka Fluteboard has a number of characteristics which tend not to lend it to sheet-assembly-design benchwork use.

- Cutting Coroplast plastic takes more force, or active heat-cutting tools
- Cutting Coroplast accurately takes significant effort and tools
- Coroplast has a very-definite "grain"/"weakness fault-lines" along the "flutes" axis.
This manifests as a tendency to fold/curl/curve in one axis far too easily.
(In contrast, Foamcore does not have a "grain" or weak-axis, and is equally strong when flexed in either axis)
- Hotglue and PVA tends not to stick reliably to Coroplast's ultra-smooth surface
- In contrast, MEK and similar Coroplast-compatible adhesives are generally considered more "vicious" and in some cases potentially dangerous 

Honesty compels me to admit I've heard a number of modellers talk about using Coroplast/Fluteboard,
​but have yet to see any actual pics of a workable road-ready design/solution...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Reply 0
MikeM

Gatorfoam is available (but pricey) in 4x8 and 5x10 sheets

I'm puttering with some of it now just as a cover over part of my benchwork and found that it was readily available from a distributor of sign making materials in my area.  It comes in various thicknesses, up to 2", and while rigid can easily be cut with a saw (I use a Rockwell Versacut which I've found quite handy up to 1" thick).

http://graphicdisplayusa.com/en/products/gator/gatorfoam/

http://midwestsign.com/products/manufacturers.asp#subst

MikeM

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

Noisy and messy VS Silent and clean...

Dear Mike,

Quote:

(Gatorfoam) ... while rigid can easily be cut with a saw (I use a Rockwell Versacut

...while in contrast, Foamcore can be cut near-silently with an regular #11 X-acto knife...
(approx equal physical effort, no power required, using tools the modeller already has, with zero mess).

- For those of us living in close-confine apartments, duplexes,
(my particular case: downstairs mother and 10yo son,
next door young couple with toddler twins and a new-born)

- and/or not having access to external "mess/work areas" such as backyards or sheds,

- and/or time-poor, resulting in modelling "blocks of available modelling time" co-inciding with family member's sleeptimes,

anything material/technique which requires power-tools and generates any significant messs needs careful consideration before deployment...

That said, I would certainly love to see any pics of live-fire Gatorboard or Fluteboard/Coroplast benchwork deployments...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

 

Reply 0
MikeM

I use the power saw for speed and accuracy, it isn't a necessity

I've also cut gatorfoam (or gatorboard) with a knife, using one of Woodland Scenics' foam knife blades (which work well) http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/Item/ST1434/page/1  For really long cuts I use the saw because with it I can cut much straighter long lines, especially in thicker pieces.  My cuts are also cleaner that way and much more likely to be at right angles to the material's face.  I also have used a simple Zona saw to cut notches in corners that have to fit around benchwork joints.

At the moment I'm cutting and fitting large pieces of thick board to serve as a cover over parts of the layout.  The board is thick and rigid enough I will be able to use this top deck for storage of odd boxes of stuff I have no other place to hide...  It's also light enough I can lift stuff into place without assistance (or a small crane...).

MikeM

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