The fleet looks good to me.

The fleet looks good to me. In fact the most noticeable thing on the photograph is the lack of weathering. I think the only reason the lack of weathering shows up so much on your layout is that everything else is so well done and realistic. Your track looks just fine because of the ballasting and weathering. Until you point it out the oversize of the spikes are not calling attention to themselves. One thing I have noticed with upgrading details on freight cars is that once you begin the ones you become proud of really make the older less detailed cars look shabby when you begin to compare them side by side, it becomes a wow that's a great car and then ugh. I have been trying to not go crazy on details just for that reason, although as the detailed models become more numerous in a consist they tend to fool the eye into thinking they are all high quality. The draw back to the highly detailed models is they are not as resistant to the hands on types that have to touch everything. It often results in broken grabs, ladders, brake hoses etc. Also if your cars ever leave the house and you have to put them in storage boxes for the trip the individual details can get broken there as well.

Jim Six had a thread about weathering cars and building cars and only investing an hour per car. Great ideas and lots of photos of ways to up the appearance of your fleet with out it taking over your life. His point was he was building a layout and operating it not building contest entries, if you have not read it you might find it enjoyable.

Your models look fine and when they are operating the only person that is likely to be critical of them is you. I have developed a bit of a reputation with my club for having models that really run well and that is because I spend some time on couplers, wheels, trucks, and weight. It is very flattering to have someone come up and ask for pointers on how you get things to run so well, and to then share your techniques with them. It sounds like you are doing the same with your models and will likely have many successful sessions because of your efforts.

If you decide to post more info on your layout and operating sessions I would be interested in reading it as it really looks like you are doing a first rate job and I'm sure lots of us can benefit from your experiences.

Thanks for sharing

Rob in Texas

Patience, Grasshoppper

Even in this age of hundreds of decent (and sometimes no-so-decent) models being available, it still requires some compromise when you are trying to represent a prototype.  There are thousands of different car designs which have been built on the prototype over the years, so there will always be gaps in the available models.  Sometimes you can do without, other times you can find something close enough to represent a particular car type.  Other times you have to start kitbashing or scratchbuilding if you feel you really need a certain class that's not available.  Such is life.

For the builders, that's just fodder for projects, but for operators who need fleets to even be able to run at all, you just have to decide what you can live with based on finances, time and what you want to get out of your layout.  The stand-in is usually the result if you have more need than time and/or money.  

On the Sudbury Division we have been running a train from Day One known as the Pulp Train or Nairn Turn.  It ran on the prototype for over 20 years with about 30 66 foot bulkhead flatcars with side stakes.  A correct model of the car has never been produced, since it's a Canadian only model (even though it's one of the five most obvious choices for producing a Canadian model, and far more obscure models have made it into production.)  So, needless to say, the train does not run with appropriate cars.  We use a mixture of Walthers pulpwood cars and some cast metal skeleton flats, both of which are correct CP models, but never were on the train.  We expect some manufacturer will see the light soon and produce the bulkhead flat, so we can replace our stand-in train with the right one, but in the meantime we continue to have fun running our ersatz-Plup Train as is.

We have been running the layout for almost as long as the real Pulp Train ran now.  When we started out, we had a lot of blue box Athearn and MDC modern boxcars, etc running.  With some weathering they didn't look too bad.  But over the years we have seen lots of better and more accurate models come out which fit into our operations just as well or better than the crude shake-the-box kits we were running, so instead of just expanding the fleet, we have been swapping out old Athearn clunkers for new Exactrail cars, etc.  Combined with the addition of some excellent kit-built models which have come out over the years, the fleet has really had a facelift over time.  Probably seventy percent of the fleet is accurate and nicely detailed these days.  

The point is, it takes time to get a nice fleet put together.  Even if you are Mr. Moneybags, it requires effort to get all the details right and everything numbered correctly and weathered properly.  Patience is a virtue, and the bigger your layout, the more patience you need.

Follow the Turn

Hey, Rob in Texas, you gave me an idea.  Let's follow the Milton Turn and see what he'll encounter.

We've already seen his cars over in the yard.  Before heading out, the turn will need some power and a caboose.  Over at the service rack are a few appropriate motors.  Maybe go with the middle track, an Atlas U23B that's received some proto-specific detail but lacks weathering, and a kitbashed Athearn GP35.  The 3022 was built before anyone had a GP35 with a scale hood, so started with the old Athearn wide shell.  I narrowed it and added a slew of Cannon parts but the proportions were still off.  It has a Canon can motor, NWSL nickel silver wheels, and runs great with newer mechanisms.  It's a bit noisier, and don't look too close.  Alternatively you could take a Tyco GP20 with a Kato GP35 drive on the next track over.  A ton more detail and weathering will be needed here but it sorta looks done and will do for now.  Let's couple onto our train, do the initial terminal air test, get some orders and a clearance from the DS and roll.

Our first work is the Hudson Press/Associated Foods spur at Chester.  Paperwork says we pick all these up.  There's an Athearn RTR WP box (ex Details West) that's kinda close to the prototype, and an early Atlas Evans "Blue Island reefer" with the original cast-on ladders.  At least they're weathered, so whaddya want?  Over at Associated is a Genesis WPLX box.  Pull all three and spot the inbounds.  We have more work here at Ideal Cement, but it's facing point going this way so we'll do that on the way back.

Take the pulls and drop them on the double ended company track (nearest the aisle) with the remaining cars for Ideal.  When we leave for Milton we'll only have Milton cars with us.

Once at Milton, might as well handle the trailing point work first.  The team track and elevator share a spur.  The customer is still unloading lumber for the local home center (duplicating a similar operation in my home town that received lumber in similar CLC boxcars, this one being an MDC kit weathered to represent a fairly new car), so we'll have to re-spot this one after working the elevator.  

We have two pulls from the elevator.  First is a Front Range ACF car with Kadee "HGC self-centering" trucks to address issues with the stock trucks not moving well on the bolster (and most likely a paint job that should be gray instead of blue).  I added brake piping and wire grabs, but retained the plastic running boards.  Next up a Proto 2000 late PS-4427 I built from one of the original kits.  Note the replacement hatches and patch-outs added to match prototype photos.  It again retains the plastic running boards but at the time this counted as a "nice" car.  Both of these are weathered too.  Spot the MTYs for the elevator, re-spot the CLC box at the team track and move on.

At the other end of town we have the Cenex feed/fertilizer/farm supply and a fuel dealer.  The white Atlas propane car gets pulled while the MDC tank will be respotted along with another load.  The MDC car is old but has a weathering job I rather like.  Over at Cenex is an MTY ExactRail UP hopper with some decals to match the  prototype.  The MILW box is from Accurail.  In addition to decals, it has some peeling paint on the roof and a fair accumulation of grime and dust.  Both of these get picked up and we have a few to go back in.  The customer uses each structure for different purposes and we have to pay attention to where we put things.

We'll assemble our train for the return trip, and get a new clearance and orders.

Heading Back

Time to head east and finish our work at Chester.  Recall from above how we left all the Chester cars on the company track, as there was no point wrestling with them at Milton.  We'll retrieve them now.

Here's Ideal Cement.  The company track where we left our stuff earlier is at left.  We have two locations to switch.  One is the coal unloading shed at right.  From the yard photo we had four loads for this one.  Swap those for the MTYs (all UP cars as the customer gets the coal from a mine in Wyoming on the UP).  There's a Walthers four-bay car and another Bowser three bay to be pulled, both weathered.  I finally did acquire one of the Bethlehem UP four bay hoppers from Tangent and plan to get a few more since the prototypes were so common in my area.  It's a nicer model but has not been weathered yet.  Shaddup.

This is our last work, the cement loader.  Waiting to be pulled is a mixed bag.  We have some old MDC cars - I built these from the old kits with unpainted details and unfinished metal frames.  They got some airbrush painting and weathering to become presentable back when the MDC car was your option if you wanted a PS 2003.  There are some later Atlas PS 2003s; including the ATSF car that's the only one here without weathering.  Also evident are two ACF cars, one from the original Ramax kit, the other from the improved version sold by Detail Associates.  The latter retains the coarse Ramax running board, but does have finer end cages and wire grabs, along with some brake piping.  Last I see a Bowser car.  The UP and ATSF cars have body color trucks I painted to match their prototypes, and I found a photo of that number of ATSF hopper to locate some new decals.

We have a bunch on MTYs to spot here, then we can finish putting the train together for the short run back to the yard so we can tie up.

I nominate this...

to be an article in MRH!

I have enjoyed this. Where are we going next? - nice job Mr. Spangler!

Thanks, Bill

Where would you like me to head next?  If you guys find this helpful I'll be glad to add to it.

Going to agree with Bill...

Helpful?

Not so much helpful as, Entertaining

Next Train Rob!

Ok Operations insight is helpful too.

All those in Favor Say AYE!

AYE!!

Along with video.  Maybe a short video clip for MRH, and a whole segment on operations of the WP on TMTV!

Ken L.

CLC boxcar

Haha, I have that same boxcar on my layout as it looked after about 20 or 30  years of use. Still hauling lumber from the great northwest. .DaveB 

Thanks Rob

I thoroughly enjoyed that.  I always looked for to your postings.  Just out of curiosity, and to put things into perspective, about how cars do you need to populate the layout and how many do you have total?

Steve

Great post Rob, And all of

Great post Rob,

And all of the cars look fine in their environment, even better than fine. The rest of the layout is detailed so well and finished extremely realistically that the cars are likely perceived to be of higher detail than they actually are. Very nice layout and models even if they were not super-detailed.

Video would be great as well. Again beautiful layout.

Rob in Texas

Next Train

Ok, Bill you got it.  We can follow the Raft River Turn (the next track over from the Milton Turn in the first photo of the yard).

You got the idea about the Junction City service rack from before.  Same deal as the other train, get power and a caboose, etc.  This train will run through Chester and Milton before heading in at Cedar to start work.

These cars occupy the business track at Cedar.  There's a local called the Roadrunner than runs between Lakeview and Junction City (Lakeview is west

Re: Steve

The layout operates with around 400 cars.  Just about every car I have is currently in service.  I normally don't collect anything I don't plan to use.

Thanks Rob

So if you use the mentioned 1 hour per car "rule"   that would be 400 hours on just weathering. Really like this thread.

Steve

That's the nice thing about a

That's the nice thing about a hobby like ours that has a life expectancy of decades. You likely did not buy 400 cars the same day and obviously do not have to do all the weathering, detailing etc in the next two years but can pursue things as time permits. maybe as maintenance becomes needed on things you might weather the cars that need it when addressing the cleaning of wheels or the coupler adjustments and repair etc.

The only real deadlines are imposed by us and if we spend 30 years working on and building something that gives us enjoyment until the end of our days we will have been happy. It looks like your layout and fleet is far enough along that anything you do from now on will only be because it makes you happy to do so. That is an enviable position to be in.

Really enjoyed your posts and models thanks for sharing.

Rob in Texas

This thread is awesome.

Loving these operating vignettes.  Keep 'em comin'.  Love the attitude too.    

Couple these (see what I did there?) with some video of the moves and you'd have a great TMTV feature. 

Thanks for doing this! 

Randy

Some of the photos

Some of the photos are not opening. Any suggestions? 

Bill Michael

Photos

Photos look fine here.

Attrition caught on film

...well *digital* film, if you will.

Rob, your post really hits home for me. Jurgen has already posted earlier in this thread about our how our club's fleet is evolving exactly as to your own rolling stock situation is unfolding. And not only do I subscribe to your views ...I see the gradual attrition of *compromises* at work right here on my work bench in front of me.

The car in the foreground is CP 50143, made from an old C&BT Car Shops kit from the late 1980's. This was one of my earliest attempts at modelling from a photograph, back when I was still a starving student with limited funds, and little knowledge of the real fleet was out there (in other words, pre-internet). I spotted this car in a photo taken at the Nelson BC loco shops in the early 70's, it was behind a set of Fairbanks-Morse locos so not all the details were visible to me. However from what was there, I determined the car had a raised rectangular panel roof (like the old Athearn blue-box 40-footer) and a door larger than the standard 6ft one.

I picked this up at the local hobby shop (back then Kitchener ON had one) thinking this was the car. At the time I did know Canadian 40ft boxcars seemed to mainly have 4-4 dreadnaught ends, which this C&BT model had, plus this car had a bigger 7 foot door. So I assembled it using the separate, but cruder details the kit supplied, though I did use wire grabs and stirrups, then painted and lettered the car appropriately. It was a big hit on the pre-WRMRC layout our operating group was running on at the time.

But within a few years Jim Little published his excellent 2-part article in RMC (I think in '92 or '93?) detailing every single order of CPR 40ft all-steel boxcars purchased from 1929 to 1960.

Boy did I blow it!

The real 50143 was a National Steel Car (Hamilton) built car, with a PS-1 style 'bow-tie' panel roof (not rectangular) panel, with an 8 foot door, and that company's unique NSC-3 ends (somewhat like Pullman-Standard's PS-1 ends, but with much rounder/smoother ribs, and no 'darts' or thin rib at the top). For that matter I learned Canadian railways ordered ladders with 8-rungs, versus the standard 7-rung on most US roads (northern railroads like GN, NP and SOO also ordered many with 8-rungs, but I digress). So even the ladders were off.

Regardless of being quite wrong prototypically, it looked good ...especially when compared with what models where available to us back then. So my CP 50143 has been running over 3 different layouts of the WRMRC for 25+ years now, due to the fact we desperately needed 40 foot boxcars.

Over the decades, despite Canadian boxcars having unique features, many manufacturers have released R-T-R Canuck boxcars like Intermountain, Branchline (now produced by Atlas), and lately True Line Trains. Likewise the membership of our club has been buying these over the years, to the point our layout now hosts just over 100 CPR 40-foot boxcars, most of which are 100% accurate.

The influx of models meant we've had to store a small group of them between operating sessions, as we've expanded our fleet past what our car forwarding system (aka - our simulated shippers) required. I was purposely holding 50143, plus a few other cars I've judged to be less than stellar models, over the last year to see if we could do without.

We did, and thus my old friend CP 50143 has been retired after the end of our 2013-14 operating season. I took it off the layout a couple of weeks ago, ready to be flea-marketed away to someone who isn't as anal about prototype boxcars as I am.

In behind the model on my desk now (as seen in the photo) are a number of replacements in various stage of readiness, all accurate R-T-R cars built by Intermountain and Atlas. They are being added on to our operations this fall.

It took 25 years of relentless freight car addition to retire my early modelling attempt, but time has finally caught up with it. Though I find myself a little sentimental thinking about the past, I feel satisfaction more than melancholy. For the hobby has progressed so far over the years that models of stuff I'd never, ever bet on being produced in plastic R-T-R form back in the 1980's, have been done, with more being announced every year.

Tonight I may have a little drink and toast my early efforts, seen in 50143, and say cheers to the 'good old days' ...which are RIGHT NOW, in case you didn't know.

And cheers to all of us, in all our modelling efforts!

Ted

Re: Ted

Thanks for sharing that.  So many of my earlier cars had worse starting points than what's currently available.  Ironically, since I could spend more time on them as I didn't have such a large layout to support, they are more often modeled after specific prototypes than newer RTR models and thus more accurate in certain ways.  

Boy did I blow it!?

   Not at all, I'd say the car was a big success. how many pretend industries did it serve just fine over the years?  25 years of imaginary loads and empty return trips is nothing to sneeze at. Those replacement cars might be more accurate but they don't look any better or more useful in  that photo.   I'm guessing someone will be glad to adopt old CP50143 to run on a classic models oriented layout. ...DaveB

Maybe

Are you sure that CP car's characteristics don't match something else? Maybe you can salvage it by renumbering or relettering.

home road cars

The Can Plant on my layout ships several boxcars per day.  I fulfilled these requests for empties with a variety of cars, many "captured" on the way back to their home road as described in Koester's book on operations.

Recently, I met and had a conversation with the retired engineer that worked that switch job during the era on which my layout is based. He said they never used foreign empties, always sending them home as fast as possible.  All of those requests for empties were filled with home road cars.  Most were even stenciled "can service only."

Oh well, best intentions and all...  It is unlikely that I will decal the N scale boxcars with the stenciled wording, but I did shuffle the cars in my fleet in an attempt to fill the requests with all home roatd cars.

Shuffling the incoming and outgoing cars and loads took care of most of the new requirements, but I'm still short about 5 or 6 home road cars.  I guess I'll have to add them to my need/want list.

It won't be the first time a railroad had a boxcar shortage.  Until I get a few more cars we'll just have to work around the shortage.

GS