The UK/Euro modellers have it covered...

Dear Dooch,

Strongly suggest you look to our friends accross in the UK and Europe, they've been doing onboard smoke and steam effects, both "modeller developed" and "commercially provided", for decades now. Advances in the smoke gen design have largely reduced many of the "exhausting non-cracked oil" and "spitting" symtoms. Better oil storage tank designs have enabled self-priming and more-efficient-burn performance. And adjustments in the "smoke oil" formulas have helped tame the clogging and internal-crud-buildup.

As for the atmospheric effects of steam locos standing at the station or at an ashpit with the cylinder cocks open, a number of UK modellers have successfully deployed theatrical smoke gens such as those by JEM and Le Maitre, via dedicated ducted under-layout plumbing, to vent "steam" up under the stationary loco models.

BTW, for those concerned about "full-sized" smoke gens and the aftereffects of their glycol-based "fog juice" on models and track, consider checking out the options in UltraSonic "foggers". These are commonly used in cheap novelty devices, and as humidifiers for pet axolotyl and reptile tanks (think your local aquarium and pet fish shop). Using water as the "fog juice", the resulting "fog" is completely harmless to models, track, and scenery. (If you've used typical wet-on-wet scenery techniques, then it's not like the scenic material hasn't been water-saturated before... ).

As for still images, smoke and steam is only a few moments work with Photoshop...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

As usual, the Prof has it covered

Dynamic Steam

Well, this is about as good as it gets in HO:

It's a recent Roco model with their "dynamic steam" system.  There are lots of large scale locos with similar effects in Europe.  Almost every German prototype model comes equipped to accept a steam generator.

The problem is that you can't scale smoke or steam any more than you can water; it just doesn't behave right on a model.  For some though, it may be better than nothing.

Some things don't scale well

Maybe it's just because of a traumatic experience as a kid, when a Lionel engine ran dry and ended up catching on fire, but I've never cared that much for smoke in models.  Even in the Roco video above, which is by far the best I've ever seen on a model, it still looks toylike to me.

To answer your question, Dooch, I don't want or care for smoke because:

• It doesn't look any more realistic (to me) than nothing at all
• It's one more thing to have to fit into a model
• It's one more thing to pay for
• The smoke generator takes up space which could be used for weight, mechanism, and/or electronics
• It's an ongoing maintenance item (having to refill the reservoir)
• I don't want any more humidity in the air
• I definitely don't want oil vapor in the air

I also don't have a tiny fireman actively shoveling coal into a firebox with a raging inferno inside, or tiny passengers climbing on and off at every station.  Some things just do not scale well, and are best left to the imagination (or Photoshop).

IMHO.

.......the steam from the Cylinders looked great, the stack, not so great.

Peter

I get it

As has been already said

Smoke/steam does not scale well at all.

It has never (to my eye) looked good enough to be worth the effort.

Smoke & sound

Funny you should mention sound.  One of the primary reasons I moved to DCC was to get sound, but I'm less impressed with it than I used to be.  It's neat when you first hear it, but it gets old after a while.  Also, there are so many decoders and installations that just plain sound bad that it's worse than nothing in some cases.  I'll keep it, but I'll be turning the volume down significantly, and I won't be as motivated to add sound in the future.

My feeling on any aspect of model railroading is the same.  If it adds to the illusion, it's a good thing.  If it detracts from the illusion (usually by standing out like a sore thumb) then it's better left out.  Smoke and sound frequently fall into the latter category for me.

Holy Smoke!!

Interesting effect, but not my cup of tea. The smoke is too wispy, thin and white to pull off the heavy smoke of the bituminous coal burners... It reminds me of my American Flyers, and Glibert HO Hudson of my youth....a nice novelty and perhaps a beginning toward something more substantial. My 2 cents...

Black Smoke?

We really need dirty black smoke that will weather our layouts "naturally"

Let's hear it for dirty black smoke!

...

I'm quite OK without the visible smoke.  Some things are best left to the imagination, and this is one of them.  Smoke leads to smoke damage, even if it's just water vapor

Smoke and steam

I agree that smoke and steam from models just doesn't look right. I doesn't give the power of the exhaust. I am fortunate that I get to work with steam locomotives as Operations Manager for Mainline Steam here in NZ so whenever I see a model steam locomotive with smoke effects it falls rather flat. This link show one of our engines in operation.

The other issue is we all operate our model in basements garages. Imagine 30 or 40 steam locos in a basement all emitting smoke. I can see the extractor fan retailers rubbing their hands in glee now.

Michael

Not just locomotives; industry, too!

While I model 1980s diesels, I also model a paper mill.  Hard to find a manufacturing facility more commonly surrounded by billowing clouds.  I have identified several approaches - all of which have significant drawbacks.  Any ideas?

Smoke from factories

Since you mentioned TVs

One  of the strategies I considered was to use a flatscreen for a module backdrop.  Possibilities are interesting (but the cost was the drawback, naturally).  

Smoke for industries : do-able

Dear Roger,

"Smoke" for industries is a lot easier than smoke for locos, and opens up a lot more variables to play with.
Reccomend considering the following:

- Start with Seuthe smoke gens, esp the 16V "bottom feeder" 5xx series, and the Seuthe smoke oil.
(Consistency of gen + fuel = freedom to confidently experiment with all possible smoke-gen variables)

- Don't be afraid to plumb a remote oil tank to the gen. RC car/plane rubber fuel line tubing works great to connect Oil tanks and smoke gens. NOTE! Make sure the oil-tank is at or slightly above the same altitude as the gen, to ensure "auto priming" of the gen under all except extremely-low-oil-level conditions.

- Tweak the voltage, lower volts on a 16V gen (say, 6-8V, Just above minimum "oil cracking voltage") help give an automatic low-velocity smoke effect. Higher volts (up to 24V on a 16V gen for short periods) can give the kind of "sudden pawl of smoke/steam" as is typical of a fire being "quenched". (For added "blast of smoke" effect, add "fan forcing" such as from a small 12VDC PC fan).

- Ensure your Drafting is appropriate! This is _critical_ to achieving any given desired smoke effect!!!

Smoke gens can be mounted low in a structure or scenic element (I'm thinking stationary boilers, etc), and have the smoke "draft" up a brass tube. However, fail to get the "draft" dynamics between the top of the smoke gen and the bottom of the "stack"/"chimney" right, and the result will not be as required... (just like designing the blast/draft arrangements for a steam loco smokebox!)

- Once you have your drafting configuration right, consider the prototype and model effects of things like cinder meshes and raincaps on the smoke effect. I've built HO and O scale logging winches(yarders) and sawmills with smoking boilers, and the effect on the smoke velocity and density when it has to navigate a small piece of folded-over scale corrugated iron "rain cap" can be significant, and very visually impressive...

- Assuming you have tweaked with all of the above, _now_ you will likely be comfy enough to experiment with other alternative "smoke fluids" in the Seuthe gens. I know of a long-running Steel mill show layout down here (D.I.R.T. Steelworks) which uses many of the above techniques to amazing effect. However, in order to keep the "cost of consumables" down, they use Johnsons Baby Oil as smoke fluid. It's significantly Cheaper that genuine Seuthe smoke fluid, more widely available, thicker, and gives a blacker "pawl" of smoke.

The _downside_ is that thickness, which manifests as a greater-tendency to condense within the smoke gens if left to cool (Read: clogged smoke gens), and a notably larger ammount of "thick recondensed oil patina" being deposited on the layout. (Any additional fragrance or other chemicals may also play a part in the suitability for use in model oil-crackers).

In contrast, the original Seuthe smoke-oil is far thinner, and thus tends to "float away and disappate" before landing/recondensing on surfaces to any significant extent. (If it is, then your smoke gen config is probably wrong, and the gen is partially/significantly "spitting un-cracked oil" into atmosphere).

It's also worth noting that Seuthe smoke gens are rated as no-threat-to-humans when used as directed, whereas Johnsons Baby Oil and other mineral oils have _NO_ such rating (funnily enough, as they were never intended to be used as model smoke gen fluid!). I have witnessed some layout-viewers complaining of headaches after prolonged exposure to "alternatively-fueled" smoke-gen systems on show layouts.

Of course, if cracking _any_ kind of oil is a concern, then the UltraSonic fogger options are a very real possibility. Combine with "pressure tanks" (perspex boxes with small PC fan and draft-optimised output vent. search YouTube for examples), and you can emulate most of the above "Seuthe gen style" smoke variants with nothing but purified demineralised water as the output....

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS RE "black smoke out of steam locos", Must admit I've not fired a steam loco in "mainline" service, but I have fired coal and wood-burners in "revenue service" on 2' gauge, and the word from the Old-Heads who were doing the Fireman and Engineer training was (paraphrased)
"...thick black smoke is a show for the railfans, usually caused by throwing a 1/2 shovel of sand thru the tubes and scraping out the accumulated crud as the sand is pulled via the draft up-and-out. Alternatively, it's a sign of poor firing/fire-on-the-grate config on the part of the Fireman. A properly tuned and fired Coal-Burner, burning decent coal, should burn clean and hot under almost all conditions and loads..."

Who needs holograms?

Dear Dooch,

Who needs holograms? If it can work for "flame" and "waterfall" effects, it can work for "smoke" too...

http://www.fantasonics.com/loco/UNfx.html

(scroll down to "electric fire" section)

The halloween guys have also been doing "fire and smoke" effects which may be scaled down to "model RR size" applications for years...

http://www.horrorseek.com/home/halloween/wolfstone/Flicker/flktch_FlickerTechniques.html

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Smoke

New worlds

This looks good, but.....................

..................the smell?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=fvwp&v=2-4l4qIdNjc

Peter

Smokin'

Wow ... I was pretty impressed with the Roco video.  Have always thought the 'steamers' looked rather odd w/o the steam.

Cotton Smoke

What did you learn Dooch?

I'm just searching for info related to good old simple fake cotton smoke,...for both industry and our steam locos.

Something as simple as these 2 examples looks better than nothing,...

In the absence of cold weather

A properly fired steam locomotive will often not show much in the way of exhaust absent a sufficiently cold outside air temperature to condense steam into a visible cloud. Visible smoke actually indicates inefficient combustion in the firebox. I particularly remember a photo runby of UP 844 (when it was still 8444) being force fired to produce a voluminous cloud of black smoke, so much so that you could see flame shooting out the bottom of the firebox. 

Here’s a better example of steam operation, more than five minutes of pacing with very little evidence of combustion. Most of the evidence of steam is the wisp trailing the turbogenerator. You will see some smoke during the clip, but not a lot and it quickly clears up.

New Zealand Railways Ja class 4-8-2 #1271 near Kataki: