throwbar / point links

On the same journey myself; started recently with the FT jigs and such (I have a blog post about it, and folks have shared comments that have been helpful (but nothing that's a direct answer to anything you've mentioned having problems with).

(edit to add: I definitely agree about the practice part!)

However, I'm looking at all the hand-laid track stuff I run across, and, here's a couple of links you may not have already seen.

First: an MRH youtube video from Charlie Comstock about handlaying switches.   He shares some useful tips, including using silver-bearing solder to get stronger points (see the video for the specifics):

Here's a thread from Trainboard that I thought was interesting, particularly with regard to more durable points:

http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?149909-making-and-laying-handlaid-turnouts

HTH

John

Southern Pacific in HO, specifics TBD

Goo?

Solder Correction

 John stated in his post:

The solder is "silver bearing" solder not silver solder. With silver solder both parts need to be heated red hot for the solder to flow. You would never be able to melt silver solder with a soldering iron.

Bernd

Couple of tips.

I noticed on new rail there is a lubricant of some sort,so now I always wipe the rail with alcohol to clean the rail. It solders better and takes paint much better after assembly.    I've purchased the FT jigs and filing guides and built about 25 turnouts. I now have the confidence to build custom turnouts using the FT templates they so graciously provide online.I spray glue the templates to a piece of homosote then spike the PC board ties to that. Then the turnout is built over the top.I use the fast track jig to build the frog and bend the gaurd rails, and the filing jigs where needed. So far I've built three curved turnouts and a gauntlet track using this method. I custom saw my own ties,stain them with AI stain for the color I want,then use pliobond glue to hold them in place until the turnout is fastened down on the layout.      BILL

Hand Laid Track

Congratulations on entering the world of hand laid track and turnouts. You have taken a step into the great unknown for you and discovered that you can do it.  You hit the preverbal nail on the head "Practice"  That is the key to improving any of our skills. 

I also hand laid track on my previous layout, so I understand the fear and trepidation starting out. I also ended up cutting down my own ties on my 10" table saw because the local hobby store had them on backorder (yes I still have all my fingers)

As I am preparing to build a new layout in the next few months I am planing on using Central Valley tie strips and P87 fast and easy turnouts. All new to me. I am sure I will learn new skills and techniques along the way, but that is a part of what makes this hobby so fun. There is always something new to learn.

Bernd - thanks - I will correct the post.

Bernd - thanks - I have corrected the post.

hand laid track

Plio Bond can be great stuff,but it can get messy(the older it is the 'stringyer' it gets. It cleans up with nail polish remover-acetone.

john

Thanks

I appreciate all the supportive comments. There is definitely a sense of control that doesn't exist with the readymade components. And less financial commitment if it turns out bad and needs to be redone. I am relaying my first two turnouts for that reason -- after finishing a few more it was hard to look at my first ones...

My problems were poorly made point ends that didn't close properly, stay attached to the throwbar. And I decided that for two back to back turnouts the stock and divergent rails could have been made as one piece rather than two -- now that I have relaid these rails it flows much smoother. I did not want to redo the frog and wing rails -- so cut the points off and am doing it with hinges. It has its virtues -- though flexing the long point rails did look more elegant.

Still struggling with connecting the points to the throwbar. Liked the technique of using a shortened track spike as a pivot but getting the head to stay attached to the rail is 'interesting'. Making a #72 hole in the rail flange is an art. The Dremmel seems such a crude, bulky tool for such tiny work. I am wondering if a positioning stage would help -- using my fingers to move the target back and forth is also not very precise.

The Pliobond that I got from Fastracks is odd -- much thinner than I expected and tricky to get a decent application. As with many issues of taste as much as technique I was not very happy with it -- only about 1/2 of the ties I tried to glue on actually stuck. I am building the turnout with all solder ties then filling in the wood ties at the end.

Here is one of my turnouts -- the construction pins are still in place on the exit track. Took forever to get a curve that a string of 'Canadian' passenger cars would track smoothly around. The inner commercial track exhibits the kink that seems to develop over time as the track creeps on the adhesive. This will need to be fixed as well.

"Still struggling with connecting the points to the throwbar"

Try soldering them to a PC board throw bar.  I use rail joiners for point hinge then solder the point to the throw bar and never have any problems with the assembly....DaveBranum  

Use a #76 drill

It's much easier to drill the smaller dia. hole in rail bases.

The Trick to using Wire Size Drills?

After breaking three #75 drill bits in succession I am curious as to what sort of equipment/technique is required to successfully drill holes in the rail base? The construction videos for the Brooklyn freight terminal show some fairly fancy machining tools. I have am using a Dremmel mounted on their drill press stand and find that even using an awl or center punch the very flexible wire drills like to climb out of the mark... then break. Perhaps instead of actually touching the lever arm I should just breath on it or ... And that is with the drill as far into the Dremmel chuck as possible.

I do solder the points on longer turnouts -- the one pictured above of mine is soldered. I am guessing that soldering with the hinged points works due to looseness in the hinges -- I wasn't too sure about that, glad it does work.  I have just had a few instances where solder crept under the rail and blocked the closure. And resoldering is a mixed bag. The reconstructed turnouts seem to be working now -- I added tabs to the underside of the points rails that I could pin to the throwbar with a cutoff spike. The throwbar is styrene so some inherent lubricity. The pins retained by ACC. Will post pictures later.

Maybe You're Using the Wrong Technique

When trying to drill metal rail, I have found much greater success using a pin vise (Micro-Mark (MRH advertiser) #21105, #80743) and a bee's wax or bar of soap as a lubricant.  I have also learned over many years to use the solid points rather than hinged points (few mechanical parts and joints to fail.)

"The Trick to using Wire Size Drills?"

 If your dremel stand is rigid enough you can get carbide drills( look on ebay for boxes of re-sharpened bits ) that will zip right thru rail base but they are very brittle so need a perfectly rigid drill press or stand. If you want to pin the points to the throw bar instead of soldering them the easiest way I've found is to solder brass tabs on the points then drill thru the softer brass. There's plenty of rail height to allow a tab to sit on top of the rail base without hitting the wheel flanges. The rail joiner hinges allow enough movement that soldered points are not strained,as the points throw the rail moves a bit fore and aft to relieve any strains. I've never had one break. When soldering points to the throw bar I put a thin piece of wood under the throw bar to hold it up tight against the rail base then solder each point in the open position( not touching the stock rails) heating the joint and applying solder from the middle of the track keeps the solder from building up on the filed side of the points and hindering the closed seating of points to stock rail. If I do get a small amount of solder on the wrong side of the point rail I file it off with a jewelers file or scrape it off with an exacto blade..DaveBranum

One other thing

Just to add confusion to the solid vs. hinged points discussion.

Our club's switch-building guru is now cutting one of the points (believe it's the curved one) and leaving the other as solid rail. He uses an ME rail joiner as a connector for the cut one. It allows the points to be strong and precise but reduces the stress on the soldered connection to the throw bar and greatly reduces the amount of effort needed to throw the switch.

Solid rail

I have used a solid rail in codes, 83, 70, 55, and 40 from the frog to the point, without any problems. I do use PC ties, and have had no problems with solder joints coming apart. 

Hand laid track looks good and for me, it's a lot of fun being able to make any type of track.

Points

Thanks for all the comments. I considered using hinged points on the last two I am building but decided that I really liked the look of contiguous rail. And in the end I did solder the points to the PC throwbar, using one of Andy's Proto87 parts. So far, pretty conventional. But I did try one experiment -- shaping the end of the point rail to prototype contours rather than the conventional bevel. Took a bit of experimenting using a small grinding wheel on the Dremel. Starting with the taper created by my Fastrack point filing jig, I then tapered the bottom, top and inside edge to follow prototype shaping. Using this approach the stock rail is not undercut. What I liked about it is that the point rail nestled into the inside of the stock rail for a very prototypical appearance -- and because it is supported by the stock rail bottom flange there are no alignment issues. Following prototype practice the end was rounded off and the top of the rail tapered so the wheel flange would not hit on the end. I had looked at the Proto:87 machined points, but at $10/pair were a tad stiff for my retirement budget. The shape is probably not perfect but the spirit is... and seeing how cleanly they mate it is beautiful. So wasted a bunch of scrap rail playing metal sculptor -- until I got a shape I liked. One tricky detail is that when soldering the throwbar it can not be hard against the underside of the point -- that blocks the close.  After the new stuff gets mounted will post some pictures.