Great Article!

Jim,

Thanks for such a thoughtful article on a subject I've been wrestling with. In a sense, I'm in the same boat in terms of age, limited time, funds, etc. I'll never have a "dream" layout, but not sure such exists for me. As it is, it'll be a 6' x 9' "L" switching layout with extensions to accommodate continuous run if I so desire (for those days after work when I want to vegetate.)
Obviously, my roster won't need to be large, fifty cars on the outside. I do like the Accurail cars, and the images of your weathered cars really made me think long and hard about separate details. 
Now, if only I could weather as well as you. 

Warren

The same but different

Jim,

I think we all must reach that point where we wonder what to do. I have a small layout space (11'x6' with an extension across a door and down an 8' wall). It's enough for a staging yard and one town. I'm fairly pleased with what I've accomplished in that area but sometimes I reach a point where I'm not as happy with it as when I got it to the operational stage. Yes, most of the structures are done and there's ample scenery to identify it as a real place. Another six months and it could be finished (yeah, we all know what that means).

However, creeping age, restricted income (known as Social Security), dimming eyes, and assorted aches and pains sometimes combine to put a damper on the whole experience. Then there's that other gal in town that you've always wanted to get to know better. Yes, the OTHER railway, and she's British!

One can get to the point where, because of all or some the factors mentioned above, we wonder if we can get just one more railway built. It could be that perfect one where it's a total prototype and everything is scratch built. Sure, the space is still tight but we could maybe get a few more feet and extend it to have two of the three villages and staging. We've even done some of the planning to see if it could work. 

Should I just tear out what has been done and start the perfect railway? Yes, I'm sure many of us have been there. As a matter of fact, as I'm finishing my  Meridian on the Santa Fe layout, I'm happily building the first section (TOMA if you like) for the Framlingham Branch.

Thanks for a great "thinking" article to put it all in perspective.

James Sullivan

On the bright side going to a

On the bright side going to a small section of layout even if it fills your space should now be easier. Locations, lots to choose from. Positives, you already have a large portion of your rolling stock and locomotives ready to go. Your loco fleet likely need not be extensive due to the size of your town (which ever choice you make) and you just might be able to reuse many of the nice structures you built. Another thing to consider if there is traffic you wish to represent that did not travel through your favorite location have the train run staging to staging. It can come from someplace pass through your location on its way to some place else. If you have double ended staging it will always be ready and you might run half a dozen trains this way having them stop on the way for water in your town.

You have lots of great choices James and they will likely sort themselves out while you are finishing the room. One big plus of having lots of staging would be the option of lots of different rolling stock for your layout. I remember your comments regarding getting your Accurail cars ready in under an hour. With needing 100 cars that is not a big issue, 8 hours a week in less than 13 weeks. Should still leave lots of time for your other activities.

Another nice article with well thought out ideas to share with the rest of us.

Thank you all

I want to thank those who commented on my July Limited Modeler column. Since I retired nothing has been as "usual" as it was when I was working full time. A problem with having more time on my hands is that I spend more time thinking and re-thinking what I am doing. Imagine that. I know that I will eventually have what I want now that knowing what I want is achievable.

Thanks,

Jim

Do you have a video or

Do you have a video or article somewhere on the way you weather your freight cars? They look great.

A fresh start

Having recently moved and torn down my old layout I can sympathize with the upheaval.

One thing you mentioned in your column is not starting ops until you finish.  I think that’s a mistake.  A lot of the enthusiasm for a layout comes from operating it.  It can be a real moral boost, even if it’s just bare plywood. And a couple cardboard boxes with sticky notes saying what industry it’s supposed to be.  And it’s a great opportunity to find and tweak anything that needs tweaking before you invest too much time in “finishing”.

So why did operating sessions delay structures and scenery?  Perhaps there’s an approach you can take to both so they don’t interfere with each other so much, that will allow you to get more enjoyment out of the layout sooner?

Started Over

About six months ago I ripped out my layout and started over.  I was very clear on what I wanted to accomplish.  My goals were rather modest taking into consideration a realistic assessment of my time commitment, finances and skill level.  One of the first objectives was to make the environment welcoming, someplace I wanted to be.  I am quite happy about how it is going.  You can follow along on my blog, "Florida East Coast-Diary of a Mediocre Modeler".  

Yes, start ops as early as possible!

I totally agree -- it's a big mistake to not have operating sessions as early as possible.

Not only is it a great morale booster, but it also lets you find the gremlins early when it's far easier to correct them.

There's nothing worse than running on a "finished" layout only to discover some nasty gremlins and have to rip and replace stuff. Yuk.

Please do yourself a favor and run trains soon and often!

Great article. ReSet? 1:64?

Jim. Super article. 

How about a “reSet” to S Scale?

Come to Cincinnati the end of July to explore what S has to offer!

http://2019nasgconvention.com/

Charles 

operating before layout is complete

I hear and understand what y'all are saying about operating early and often. I will definitely operate in a limited way by myself to find any gremlins. I may even have a friend over to operate with me. However, there will be no full blown "real" operating sessions before the layout is near complete.

Remember, I have been down that road and while we had a lot of fun operating and it did find the gremlins. However, it took my attention away from working on the layout and that cost me. My focus is going to be on working on the layout. Any operation will be for testing purposes and some R&R.

For me, having a well detailed and finished layout is very important. Some of you have operation as your primary reason for having a layout and some have stated that they don't really care if the scenery and structures are complete or not. That is not me. I am first and foremost a model builder and I see the layout as just a big model. Yes, it will operate, but not like most of you see operation.

And, the new layout will be simpler with less track and fewer on-lint customers to switch. Because of this an ideal operating session will be for two people, or at times as many as four people. No more than that.

I am not your typical model railroader. I am maybe more than a bit "different". That's just me.

Jim

The Only Reason I Can See for Early Operations

I can see that early operations may not only pinpoint gremlins, but also identify operational issues that might be easier to correct before nearing completion. Length of sidings, movement of turnouts, additional turnouts needed, changing block lengths, reach in problems, etc.

Time to reset

Jim 

Thanks for another great article. First article I read each month with great insights, inspiration learning and openness about making occasional mistakes.  

At present I find myself conflicted about time period. I have been interested in the Southern for some time- late 1970's-80's. I have been proto-freelancing also and enjoying this. But now I have 'discovered' ACL and SAL and find myself being drawn to the pre-merger period1965-67. Frankly, I have so many ideas that I am almost paralysed. I fear selling stock in case my interest changes and I want to model the later period again. I have sold stuff before and now regret this. 

I see others who model different time periods on the same layout but think now this is less likely to be effective. for me. I do envy the single minded folk who stick to one period and company.

I am now preparing my single garage (UK sizes are smaller. Mine is 8 x 17 ft) so I do need to make my mind up soon and commit.

Keep those articles coming Jim

Best wishes Ray

Reset

I agree with Jim on the upgrades to cars, at one point I was going to super detail every  one of my 100 hopper cars, I then saw a comment that made more sense to me the 3 foot at 15 scale mph rule.  Simply stated if it looks good enough at 3 foot traveling at a scale 15 mph, then do not worry about it.  Most of my locomotives do not have sound nor lights since I engage in daytime running only prior to the requirement of headlights.  I also have shrunk the size of my layout due to the fact that I have retired and I will never finish my dream layout that I designed 35 years ago.  I am planning on one town and an engine facility.

Kurt S. Kramke MMR

Always enjoy your articles

Jim

Your thoughts help me with my layout planning. Thanks for the insight. As you know I suffer severely from Multiple railroad multiple era disorder. 

Kurt S. Kramke MMR

Hi Kurt,

Super detailing is a lot of fun and provides great satisfaction, no doubt. However, as you point out doing so for 100 hoppers is a lot of work and will require an enormous amount of time to do. Like you, I don't bother to add any detail that I cannot do for 100-125 freight cars that I need for my layout.

Young people have no real grasp of limited time. When I was in my twenties I lived as if life was forever. Now that I am seventy I realize that life is finite and I am much closer to the end than the beginning. As such I have finally become realistic with my planning for my hobby. I strongly believe that finish and weathering are the most important "details" that you can add to a model.

Jim

Bill Michael

Bill,

multiple railroad disorder is not a disorder. It is a crippling disease.

Jim

...

Time to reset our thinking indeed.

Does a FINISHED layout really matter that much?

Because for starters, I've rarely ever seen one...and as soon as they're finished, teardown often follows 6 months or so later.

Finish a couple scenes, but overall, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Early Ops

So how long did it take you to finish the last layout you built?

How long do you think it will take to finish the current layout?

Will you be able to sustain your interest in this era and theme for that length of time? 

It would be truly sad if its going to take 10 years to build and finish the new layout and you get burned out on it at  8 years and never operated on it.

Planing the layout

I recommend using a track planning software like 3pi. It forces good design and avoids frustrating dead ends. 

Does a FINISHED layout really matter that much?

Benny,

The short and real answer to this question is YES. Having a complete layout means more to me than about anything else in the hobby. I absolutely do not like operating on a plywood pacific. I absolutely don't care to operate on any sort of partly completed layout. That just is not me.

I do not build a layout just to operate. Yes, operation is truly important to me, but it ain't everything. I love to just "railfan" what I have built. I love to use the layout as a photo setting from my models to be photographed. Most importantly, I love the sense of accomplishment when I complete a model and will certainly love the accomplishment of completing a layout.

These stated reasons for me building a layout are to a large part why I will build a new, simpler, and most likely smaller layout -- just so I will be able to complete it. These reasons at least in part explain why I will not have and do not want an operating crew of more then three of four people at most.

A side note is that to me, not much is more discouraging than looking at or operating on an incomplete layout. I dwell on what is not done and what needs to be worked on to completion. I do not need that.

Jim

1905

Mr. Perfect strikes again

I'm similar

I'm similar, but I am okay with the Plywood Pacific ops, to a point.

My Siskiyou Line 1 had only about 1/3rd of the scenery done and a lot of equipment pressed into operation at all levels of completeness / fitness due to time pressures. I've come to realize a couple things ...

1. Quality of run is WAY more satisfying the quantity of run.
   Translation: Running trains even a short distance where the ops is continuously flawless absolutely rocks. Having a big layout where almost no train can complete its run without some glitch somewhere really sucks.
    
2. While I can put up with Plywood Pacific ops, because shorter run high quality ops turns out to be far more satisfying, I prefer some way to build the layout piecemeal -- and as I add to the layout, the scenery is DONE as the layout expands.

So by doing Siskiyou Line 2 as a TOMA layout build, I can start small, finish what I have built to a fine level of finish, and then populate it with a small fraction of my SL1 equipment collection that has all been tuned per my new Run like a Dream standards.

I'm expecting even on a couple modules with continuous running staging added, the ops experience is going to totally rock and be way more satisfying than the SL1 ever was. Yet adding to the layout to get still more run distance is not that hard and it's baked into the process too with TOMA.

So I'm on the same page as Jim on this, and that's why I am doing TOMA for SL2. Even if I never get SL2 built out to be anywhere near the room-filling size of SL1, the quality of run is going to be off-the-charts awesome at every step.

Sq footage vs Time

These questions got me thinking about layout size.  Maybe for operations square footage is a critical measure of layout size.

However for building a  layout, time may be more important.  Maybe the key to resizing is building a layout that matches my time constraints.  How much of how detailed a layout can I build before my "attention span" gives out? 

The challenge is that I won't know any of these parameters unless I have already tried to build a layout AND can quantify the time it takes me to build a layout AND I have an idea about how long it takes me to become bored or frustrated with a layout.  The concept of "resizing" to me implies that I have already tried to build a layout and I am changing to a different size based on previous experience.

Modelers I know build at different rates.  Some guys can whack out an entire basement of benchwork in a weekend, some guys take years to finish a 2x6 module.  If I relocate or change interests every 3-4 years, and it takes me a year to finish 20 sq ft of layout to my expectations, then I shouldn't plan on a layout over about 40-50 sq ft.  If it takes me a year to build 6 sq ft, then I shouldn't build something over 12 sq ft.

Just a different thought on how to look at layout "size" and what meets one's needs.

Not everyone has the same

Not everyone has the same priorities in the hobby. Nobody is wrong for doing the things that are important to them. Sometimes one must remember that we need to look at the layout through the eyes of the builder and not our own.

For example.

For me testing all the track before scenery is a major thing. I do not want to go back and fix it later. With that in mind ballast will be one of the very last things done if at all. Track maybe painted and on painted cork, gasp. But it will perform to my standards.

Someone other than me might have a different goal, it should be what makes them happy.