MRH

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Read this issue!

Please post any comments or questions you have here.

Reply 4
Larry of Z'ville

Nice

An excellent job of putting a lot of pieces together.  As a result I am changing to a non polar fluid when I clean my track.  Thanks,

So many trains, so little time,

Larry

check out my MRH blog: https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/42408

 or my web site at http://www.llxlocomotives.com

Reply 1
Ken Rice

Excellent article

It’s great to finally see a good solid explanation for why some things work well and others don’t.

Reply 1
jgfuja

Extremely Helpful

Thanks for sharing your research.  Seems like I've been doing it wrong for years.  I've read various articles about using Wahl Clipper Oil or automatic transmission fluid to improve performance.  Your article explains why they work.  I plan to give the WD-40 Contact Cleaner a try.

Reply 1
ctxmf74

non polar?

So would kerosene make a great track cleaner or is there more to it than the non polarity factor?  Turps and mineral spirits are pretty easy to find so would they be a good choice too? ....DaveB

Reply 1
UPWilly

Seemingly ...

... the most complete article on the subject I have seen yet. Especially like the chart of polar/non-polar fluids.

Thanks for this - it's a keeper!

 

Bill D.

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N Scale (1:160), not N Gauge. DC (analog), Stapleton PWM Throttle.

Proto-freelance Southwest U.S. 2nd half 20th Century.

Keep on trackin'

Reply 1
j.sheldrake

Caution, which solvents attack plastic?

I don't recall reading any warnings as to how any of the cleaners react with the rest of the track & plastics

When I was young(50+years ago) I tried Turps or was it Kero & found that the sleepers(Ties) started to melt & buckle, Also tried to clean the clear plastic canopy of an Airfix kit with petrol, the plastic went opaque.

Those were lessons learned

John

 

 

Reply 1
RicharH

Great research

You really got to the heart of the matter, Joe. Really good information that I WILL use on my layout. This has to be doubly important for an N scale layout.

Reply 1
Prof_Klyzlr

Wet Vs Dry

Dear Joe, Great analysis and write-up. Definitely one for the reference library... (and a key tell-tale in future for anyone who refuses to use the Search box... ) One minor detail: - Assuming we stick with the "good cleaners" (non-polar), - and avoid the ones which are known to damage/weaken plastics (sure,it may be "only if over-applied", but if it _can_ be easily over-applied accidentally-or-otherwise, someone _will_, With potentially catastrophic results) What about the difference between Wet and Dry chemicals, esp RE "flash off" time? If a wet treatment stays-wet (or by-definition, leaves a wet-film behind,... I'm looking at you RailZip...), Then are we not solving the metallurgical rail<>wheel contact issue, Only to leave behind a surface prime to attract/stick airborne contaminates (dust, dirt, et al)? Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr
Reply 1
Don Mitchell donm

Re: Wet Vs Dry

Mention of Rail Zip leaving a wet film brings up memories of the time before reading the fine print in the directions on the back of the bottle.  The "AHA" moment was discovering that the film was supposed to be wiped off with a damp rag.  RZ did seem to help when so applied.

My Rail Zip is long gone because that wiping was too much of a PITA.  Current methods for my layout are described in my blog.  They somewhat parallel those used by my club (La Mesa).

Don Mitchell

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Reply 1
Prof_Klyzlr

Benefit Vs PITA maintenance factor

Dear Don,

Thanks for the clarification and LM club experience.
Not a RZ user myself, but have witnessed a number of exhibition layouts go to their knees minutes after a mid-day RZ application, due to the residue not being manually removed, and the visible-in-the-air dust (predictably) landing/sticking/bonding to the "freshly treated, should be good to go" rails...
(with again predictably confused and angst-generating results...)

Whether the application was "incomplete as the fine-print dictates" due to user-error or situational-incompatibility (can't bring an exhibition layout to a complete stop for 10s of minutes mid-show,
any treatment has to be "gun and run" do-able which fits in the few seconds Envelope between on-stage train movements),

I wonder what the "working solution" tipping-point is between "long-term effective" and "PITA to apply correctly/maintain"?

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Reply 1
mbursztein

Joe, thank you for taking a

Joe, thank you for taking a logical approach on the subject of track cleaning. I will for sure try mineral spirits in my cleaning car. This deserves a segment  in what's neat.

Moe Bursztein

 

Reply 1
jTrackin

I use this track rubber that

I use this track rubber that suppose to polish not scratch   Aluminium Oxide  can anyone tell  me if this is polar or non polar?

 

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James B

Reply 1
DrJolS

Semi Polar, But....

James B,

dielectric constant of aluminum oxide is 9.0, so it's semi-polar , almost polar, by Joe's classification.

Rubber has dielectric constant of 2-3, non-polar.

But how does that apply in Joe's system? It's hard for me to understand how the oxide or the rubber will fill in micropits like the liquids will. Since THIN graphite film is effective I guess this stuff can be also. But I suspect that residues from the rubber would be more effective for Joe's mechanism than the oxide.

Also, the flackery in the advert for your rubber is half truth. Aluminum oxide is used for abrasive papers even more than garnet. Whether it scratches or polishes is more a matter of how tiny the grains are, not what they're made of.

Tests of the impregnated rubber block are needed to tell whether it's really effective. Wondering how it fits theory can be fun, but why not just watch how often you need to repeat cleaning?

My own preference is to stick with the graphite.

DrJolS

Reply 1
Don Mitchell donm

Re: Benefit Vs PITA maintenance factor

Prof --

I wonder what the "working solution" tipping-point is between "long-term effective" and "PITA to apply correctly/maintain"?

1. Apply Rail Zip according to the directions before the show opens and see if it will last for the entire show.

2.  If it doesn't last, spray/wipe with mineral spirits or contact cleaner.  (RZ is not used on my home layout, but contact cleaner is -- mostly for points used to power frogs that haven't yet been optimized for DCC.)

3.  Change the cleaning method.  La Mesa uses track cleaner trains consisting of a Masonite wiper car, engines, TTX tank car distributing mineral spirits, and 3 Centerline wiper cars to remove the fluid and dirt.  Extra Centerline rollers are used for quick exchange during the wiping process.  How many rollers depends on the amount of dirt and the amount of track that has to be cleaned.

4. Use pad wipers in trains.  Many operators, starting perhaps back with John Allen, use masonite pads.  My preference is for the very fine grit rubber-type pads sold by Walthers for their track cleaning cars.  (FWIW, these cars have reduced the wet cleaning on my home layout to about once a year.  Quite effective, considering that there are 2 op sessions per month.)

5. Try graphite as Joe F. has advocated.  Modular layouts without track grades should not suffer noticeable loss of tractive effort as was the case on my home layout.

As always, YMMV.  Track cleaning has been a constant discussion topic in the hobby for almost as long as the hobby has existed.  The point here is that there should be no hesitancy about trying different methods if there seem to be problems with the current method.

Don Mitchell

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Reply 1
railman28

interesting

I appreciate the research and scientific approach to this old pain.

Now where do I get a graphite  stick?

 

Bob Harris

Reply 1
ctxmf74

non polarity?

 Does "oderless" versions of the same solvent have different polarity than regular versions? ....DaveB 

Reply 1
Prof_Klyzlr

Graphite stick source

Dear Bob Harris,
 
Your local art supply should be able to book you up with graphite "woodless pencils" of varying grades. I personally run Progresso brand 2B grade sticks. Progresso are also readily available thru most major online sources.
 
Happy modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr
 
PS you wouldn't happen to be "Cowboy Bob H" from the UP "Blue Herron Paper" job in Oregon City?
Reply 1
railman28

Thanks and

I've never have worked in Oregon. Just played there.

Bob Harris.

Reply 1
sunacres

Great info! Now about those micro pits...

Really helpful, practical, well organized information! Thank you Joe. 

Ever since the source of the wheel scuz was revealed to be oxides from sparking, I've wondered how that phenomenon is affected by variations in rail and wheel surface finish. On one hand it seems logical that rail with tiny scratches will spark more, but it may also be that even "perfectly" smooth surfaces will spark when the proximity is very close. For all I know the difference could be significant, like a lightning storm compared to petting my cat in the winter. I hope someday someone will undertake a controlled test before battery powered locomotives make the whole topic irrelevant. In the meantime I'd replace all of my rails with new sections made with white gold-plated crowns if it significantly cut down on scuz. 

Jeff Allen

Jeff Allen

My MRH Blog Index

Reply 1
Rogersken50

Goo Gone?

I've not tried it to clean rails, but does anyone know the polar/non-polar value of a citrus-based cleaner like Goo Gone?

Reply 1
joef

Goo Gone

The main ingredient in a citrus solvent is limonene.

To find the dielectric constant of a product, search on its name followed by MSDS. That is the filed safety and hazards document on the product and what’s in it. Then look at the various chemicals' dielectric constants and use the highest value.

Goo-Gone lists its major ingredients as petroleum distillates (2.2) and d-Limonene (2.26). Therefore, the dielectric constant for Goo-Gone is 2.26, making it non-polar.

However, just because a solvent is non-polar isn’t the only consideration. Goo-gone and all citrus solvent turn into a thick pitch-like material as they age. I have heard many horror stories about people using Goo-gone to clean their track later to regret it because the residue gums things up badly.

Likewise, although kerosene on the chart shows very non-polar, I’d use a contact cleaner product specifically designed for electrical use like WD-40 contact cleaner, CRC Contact Cleaner and Protectorant, or DeoxIT D5. Mineral spirits is also a good choice since it’s been field tested by the La Mesa club and has served them well. Of course there’s also the specific model railroading product, Neverstall.

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

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Reply 1
Michaeld4502

I won't be using Auto Trans fluid

Hi 

Great article, I was about to try the youtube track cleaning Auto Trans wonder fluid, but after reading this I be using something from your list thank you 

Regards

Michael

Reply 1
railandsail

Goo Gone & trans fluid

Interesting,...I used this quite successfully to clean my loco wheels & track on my old Central Midland layout. But perhaps I did not use it long term enough (about 3 years) to determine long term buildup.

I had also seen the suggestion about auto trans fluid, and decided to put a light coating on my 'external' helix tracks (under construction right now) until I could get around to running trains on them. (thought it might help protect them in their semi-exposed form at this most immediate time)

Hope I haven't screwed up too badly?


BTW I am using some some 'previously used' track in portions of my layout, and I am thoroughly rubbing down each section with a wire brush and some alcohol prior to installing it. I've also gone over the tops of the rails with 1500 grit sandpaper to get a very clean looking surface. Now I do know that the use of sandpaper is NOT suggested, but I do recall using these very, very fine grit on auto refinishing between coats on my old MB 450SLC. It really seems to present an almost imperceptible non-scratch finish??  

 

 

 

 

Reply 1
HVT Dave

@ Brian, try burnishing

After the 1500 grit you can use a stainless spoon or stainless washer to burnish the surface and smooth it out even more.

Dave

Member of the Four Amigos

 

Reply 1
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