Excellent article

Tim has done a great job explaining what it is like to be a professional railroader. The information he provides in the article is a must read for those that enjoy prototype operations. Using the ProtoThrottle for an ops session adds that extra level of realism that has been missing for so long in how we control our model trains. Using the ProtoThrottle makes you feel like you are in the cab of the locomotive rather than just operating a model. Operators must now slow down and plan their moves just like the prototype crew does to make smooth couplings. The guys at Iowa Scaled Engineering and Scott Thornton have done a fantastic job designing the ProtoThrottle and getting it to work with several DCC systems including JMRI. Tim's CV programming tips and suggestions in the article for operating with the ProtoThrottle just enhance an already great experience with the new throttle. 

Tom Klimoski

Modeling the Georgia Northeastern Railroad

Many Thanks!

Thanks Tom and others!

Many thanks to you Tom along with Scott Thornton, Michael Peterson and Joe Atkinson whose advice and help was instrumental in creating my first ever published article.

Tim Garland

Question on Notch Value

In the article you indicated that you use 28 speed steps, however, the notch value for Notch 4 and above exceeds the highest speed step.

Was there a reason you assigned the higher speed steps to those notch values?

Did you change from 28 to 128 speed steps?

Eugene

Notch values

Hi Eugene,

The ProtoThrottle comes in the box with pre-programmed notch values by default. They are easily customizable with a little adjustment, either up or down. Michael Peterson with IAS would have to comment on what these notch values actually represent. 

Out of the box the values that were pre-programmed did not have the same increase in rpm noise as I am accustomed to with the prototype. On a prototype SD40-2 or GP40-2 you will hear an increase in engine rpm noise as soon as you put the throttle in notch two. From that point, an advancement in each notch will result in a higher rpm pitch. By notch 8 the engine will be at a ROAR! I knew to get the full experience I had to get these notch values right so after playing around with it the numbers in the article produced the best result for a LokSound Select equipped SD40-2 file.

Thanks,

Tim Garland

Great article. Really

Great article. Really addresses the use of the throttle. I find myself now looking to update things like decoders so I can really take advantage of this throttle. I will be using Tsunami 2s as my standard decoders from this point forward so I will need to do different set ups. I am also going to need to finish with configuring hardware and software for the club layout so I can interface with the CVP system.

Since they decided to not share tech with the Iowa scaled guys I will be buying an NCE system for my home layout instead of a CVP system. There are also additional reasons but the previous one really iced it.

The tables with decoder set ups look real good as well. Now if we can get a comparable piece for TCS and Sound Traxx with this throttle we will really have something to work with.

Joe, a book for setting up the proto throttle and the major brands of decoders would make a nice run like a dream volume 4. I have only got to read your first volume but if the rest are as good you will really have a hit with the rest of them.

At last!

Excellent article, thanks for taking the time to write it.  I have been lamenting the loss of the great Dynatrol controller since I made the leap to DCC some years back.  Dynatrol had many of the great momentum and braking features you demonstrated on the ProtoThrottle, less sound of course.  I really need this throttle and, heaven help me, probably more than one.  Which also means I have to upgrade some of my decoders too.  Awesome.  The hobby that never ends, thank goodness.

I enjoyed the article Tim.

I enjoyed the article Tim. Thank you for the effort. I hope to see more of your Seaboard Central in the future.

Jeff

Thanks

Thanks David and Jeff. I hope to write an article on my Seaboard Central sometime in the near future. I appreciate your comments and feedback.

Tim

The Future Is Here

I read this article with gusto. I've always thought that running a model like the real thing would include the actual levers and layout of the prototype. The biggest downside for this product is the price, but like everything else, it should come down, and improvements will be made.

I'm looking forward to someday using this type of throttle.

Great Article

I really enjoyed the article. It was interesting to learn about the day in a life of an engineer. Your Seaboard Central layout is amazing thank you for showing off your layout and the ProtoThrottle.

Chris

Plus 1

Tim:

Your “in cab’ experience really shows as you describe a day in the life (nice Beatle reference btw). The use of drive-hold does seem to enhance the illusion of mass and the sound an engine might make when working through notches. As a steam guy, it begs the question of how it might be applied to produce similar results. A Steam Backhead PtotThrottle would, or could, be similar in many ways but how to operate a steam engine “like a pro” may be a lost art. 

Thank you for the ride!

Thanks Guys

I am glad you guys enjoyed the article and found the Day in the life of a Railroader interesting. My intent was to show what I actually do with the controls when operating the prototype and how one could use the ProtoThrottle in a similar fashion.

The ProtoThrottle offers something that no other controller has offered before and that is the experience to manipulate a model train in a similar way as how the prototype is operated. I understand folks are concerned by its size and price but they haven’t really considered the experience that the ProtoThrottle gives compared to all the other methods of control.

The size and weight does not bother me. I slip my left hand middle finger through the love handle strap and it works fine. I’ll use my right hand to operate the throttle, horn and lights and my left thumb to work the large auxiliary button (Drive Hold), bell, brake and Reverser.

As far as price is concerned it really comes down to what is important to you. Obviously, if you have considered one you probably already own a DCC System. If you own more than two sound equipped diesel locomotives then you already have made a pretty good investment in the hobby. If you are like me you probably actually have more than needed. In that case I would sell a couple of those still in the box (especially my two Athearn Genesis BNSF SD70ACe Units with original Tsunami decoders) and use those funds to purchase another PT. The way I look at it, the value I get from the experience and enjoyment of operating my model trains with a PT controller is greater than holding on to a a couple of surplus locomotives that have rarely seen any use.

Thanks again,

Tim Garland

Tim....great article...

Would have totally blown me away if I hadn't seen your videos already...    I have a PT in box waiting for my

changeout to NCE here in a couple weeks.   I did ask on the proto throttle list, and noone has answered yet, but do you or anyone else know how engineers would have worked back in the late 70s?   I know there was no 3-step protection required, and also that each engineer worked differently, but what steps like you describe would be in use?   I know basic hand signals and how to make basic moves, but to try to interrelate with a crew and make it a little more formalized than just 'bring er forward', that'll do, etc...  

Did different railroads have different requirements/expectations of how their engineer/crew handled prototype movements in different eras?

thanks in advance,

Mostly Hand Signals

In the late 70s hand signals were used quite often. The radios they did have were very large. Think of the style you would see in an old Vietnam War movie. There would be a radio on the caboose and the conductor would have the big walk around radio. The rest of the crew would use hand signals for switching. The fireman would relay signals to the engineer from the opposite side of the cab. Back then a lot of trains would have a five man crew. By 1985 it was reduced to a three man crew and radios were widely used. The fireman and the flagman position had been eliminated. Today crews with a brakeman are pretty few. Most jobs work with just an engineer and conductor.

When I started in 1996 we didn't provide three step protection. The engineer would say A&B or air and brakes over the radio after a crew member requested to work on or between the equipment. All the engineer needed to do was to center the reverser and set the brakes. You might hear some Shortlines or regionals say "Centered and set" which is the same thing. You can definitely perform this task with the ProtoThrottle. As far as hand signals, If someone was so inclined, I'd just use my forefinger to simulate the moves we would do with our arms.

Thanks!

Tim

Train handling by era

Yes.  In the 1970's and 1980's the restrictions on switching moves (kicks, drops, getting on and off moving equipment, etc) were much more lenient.  In addition crews were bigger (engineer, fireman, conductor/foreman, 2 or more brakemen/switchmen), so that whole everybody waits while somebody walks up to the switch or gate thing was much less because they could put more people where they needed to be.

In a rail yard today everything creepeth and crawleth, but in a flat yard "back in the day", the switcher would have cuts up to a slow run on the lead in order to kick them down the lead.

Train handling was also different, you had more, smaller engines, non-alignment controlled couplers, fewer engines with dynamic brakes, and fuel economy was not as big a deal as it is now.  For example I asked a question (never answered that I saw) about using the brake and the throttle at the same time.  The way an engineer would make a precision stop at a platform was to set a minimum reduction on the train brakes to stretch the train, then use the throttle to maintain speed until he was where he wanted to stop, then back off on the throttle and the train would squat down smoothly with no slack right where he wanted it.  It was called "stretch braking".

A Day in the life..

Hi Tim, Very nice articles on the Proto Throttle and a day in the life of a railroader. Just a couple of tips and a bit of information. When priming carry a small flashlight with you (since you start work when it's still dark) and watch the fuel sight glass mounted to the front of the diesel engine across from the start station. On older locomotives that do not have a paragon fuel pump, they take a little longer to prime the engine. Wait until all the bubbles are out of the sight glass and it looks like a glass of red wine, then you are good to crank. Also the Aux Gen has nothing to do with the diesel engine running on locomotives that are equipped with a governor.

An Aux Gen not working will prevent a locomotive from loading, but the diesel engine will remain happily running.

Also of note, the 27 pin Train Line MU cable does not send electronic information, each pin is energized (voltage applied) or de-energized (voltage removed) when the component or contactor is needed to be picked up or dropped out depending on the operation being performed. The exception is pin 24 which does have a variable voltage applied that indicates which notch you are in during dynamic braking. All the pins except pin 4 are a positive voltage. Pin 4 is the negative side of the circuit. Locomotives do not use a chassis ground. If the locomotive is conducting voltage through the frame or carbody of the locomotive you either have a high voltage or low voltage ground, which as you know is a bad thing   

This is just FYI information not really required for your job, I just added it in case you ever wondered what exactly is going on under the hood   Also I work for the same company as you except I work at the engine house in Conway Yard as a locomotive electrician. I've moved every type of locomotive the company owns and a few the company no longer owns, but I've never pulled a train. Stay safe out there, remember 3 points of contact when climbing on or off equipment and remember to use the buddy system with your grip.

EMD second gen locos

That’s a lot of good info electrician Rich. I do look at the fuel sight gauge when starting but it would make it easier for us if it was in an easier position to see. Another thing I check for before starting is the governor. I make sure it hasn’t tripped and it has oil.

Tim

EMD Second Generation Loco

Hi Tim, Yes, I've wondered why EMD put the sight glasses on the right side of the diesel engine (left side of the locomotive) when the start station is on the right side of the locomotive? Yes, very good point about the governor button and oil in the sight glass. Among other things, that governor oil runs the load regulator and the indicator on the load regulator should be in the 7 o'clock position. If the governor is low on oil, the load regulator will return to the 5 o'clock "minimum field" position which can cause NLP issues.

Before I forget, I just watched your YouTube update, the engine house and service facilities on your layout look great. I like the yellow clearance lines, very nice. For your service facility, don't forget, you need Fuel, Oil, Water and Sagar hoses. The sand hoses are naturally overhead and at the end of the pad you need potty dump hoses. The smaller building that is attached to your engine house with the office at one end can be the store room. Remember it takes a lot of parts to keep the locomotives running and our store room stocks everything from air brake parts, grids, light bulbs HOTD's, handle sets, radios, magnet valves, switch gear, you name it. It's only the large items like the air compressors, main alternators, auxiliary alternators, rad sections, rad fans, grid blowers, traction motors, etc. that come in from the central warehouse when needed. I like your idea for a dead line behind your engine house, are you going to move the hopper transload equipment to another location? That's a neat little industry in itself.

if you work in a yard

That's good stuff on the

That's good stuff on the electrical information, Rich and Tim your article on modern operations was right on the money. Dave as you mentioned back in the 60s, when I started railroading, was a lot different. The "old heads" either liked you if you worked hard and wanted to learn or just ignored you if just wanted to warm a seat on the engine. 

I recall learning switching with good railroaders who could "sail" several cars down a lead simultaneously with the conductor giving the cuts the head man pulling pins/getting switches and another man working the field keeping cars together, making hoses and keeping them from rolling out. It could be a lot of fun working with experienced men working as team so he could get an early quit or more time for beans. Again, it really came down to having a good, experienced yard master to work with. I think today if the road's had not stopped giving "quits" and not work every crew to the max. there would be more effecient switching and a lot more happy crews. Oh, for the days when operating officials still came from the ranks and understood what really goes on in the yard, on the road and had crediability. 

Thanks, for all you, rails, who contributed to this thread.

Barry

@ Dave Husman IE stretch braking

Experienced crew

Barry,

We have a few good conductors that know how to switch just like you mentioned. Also, there is a Utility Brakeman at Chamblee who is about to retire that when working with any of our good conductors can really make a flat switched yard look just like a hump yard.

They’ll take their list and start kicking out cars to multiple tracks classifying the cars into their proper order. If I’ve got a good set of engines and some decent braking it is a sight to see multiple cars gliding down different tracks. The Conductor normally kicks the cars and the U-man will line the switches but sometimes they’ll trade off. Having a good experienced crew sure does make things go a lot smoother and more efficient

If I have two Geeps or two SDs normally when they tell me to Kick ‘em I’ll immediately kick the Reverser out of neautral, knock the independent brake off and throw the throttle in notch 5. The speed will build up and depending on if I need to kick the cars up a slight hill before they level off and roll down into a track or the cars need to go a good distance I may get up to about 10 mph before they say GOOD! And then I slam on the independent full, knock the throttle to idle and center the reverser. If I’ve overrun the switch before I get the movement stopped, they’ll tell me to go south or north (depending on the direction) how ever much I need to clear the switch. Sometimes when kicking the cars they will have to run alongside the train to hold up a cut lever that won’t keep the pin up on its own. 

Normally, they will know how much is needed to kick before they want me to stop. If they have me kick them too hard, it can cause damage to the equipment, turn the rail over or derail. Not hard enough and the cars won’t make it. If the track is not level, the cars could actually roll back out. So having a good crew that knows what they are doing is a tremendous value to the company. And believe it or not, good conductors aren’t always just the older more experienced ones. I have some great younger conductors that know how to switch and kick just like seasoned veterans. Then of course there is some that couldn’t switch their way out of a brown paper bag.

Tim

Thanks, for the response Tim

Thanks, for the response Tim it re-assures me that the future of normal railroading is still in good hands.

I enjoyed reading how you kick cars as it's exactly the way I used to it and it worked very well. One thing a good conductor would do was to try to make his cuts so that rarely did the engineer have to reservse movement until all the cars werewith all the switches gone. Of course this was based on the ability to continiously move in one direction at the beginning right down the lead.

I am often humored when modelers believe they need a yard with a long lead, arrival/departure tracks ,etc. to classify, just a few cars . I have worked many jobs where we switched a lot of cars using only a few tracks, no lead but the conductor was wise enough to know where to make his cuts effeciently. In the end, railroading is a lot like a puzzel: (no I don't mean silly, switching puzzels like some layouts)  You look at what you need to accomplish, what you have to work with and how to do it the best way to get results. 

Barry

Best switch engine