jwhitten

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For several years now I've been mulling over how to best light my (in-progress) multi-deck layout. When I first started thinking about it, the choices were pretty much regular old incandescent lighting, regular florescent lighting and compact florescent lighting (CFL) and that was about it. Sure there were some variations such as Christmas tree lights, "Rope" lighting, halogen "highlight" spots, etc., but in the end that was about it. The question really became, how much can you afford, what are your minimum space issues, how much heat can you tolerate, what kind of power are you willing to run, and that sort of thing. For me, on my layout, I'm looking at around 300 linear feet or thereabouts which needs lighting. If I use incandescent lighting, the electrical bills are going to get big quick. Plus there are heat and space concerns in hanging them underneath the top deck. After a number of trials and a lot of consideration, I had finally come to the conclusion that I would use the compact florescents (CFL's) and just live with the spacing issues. That seemed like the best overall tradeoff and bang-for-the-buck.

At the time, LED lighting just wasn't a practical reality. Though their potential has always been great, their cost on the other hand has always been high, comparatively speaking, lumen for lumen, not to mention concerns over their overall spectral output. These two aspects more than anything have traditionally been the limiting factors governing their acceptance as general lighting. The cost part is obvious-- if it costs more than you want to pay, you're not likely to buy it. The color part though is less obvious. The traditional "Achilles heel", as it were, of LED's as lighting, is the fact that they are designed to produce light around narrowly defined frequencies and not across the whole visual spectrum such as more traditional light sources do. Though in fairness, nearly all light sources are skewed in  their spectral emissions, just not to the same degree as LED's. Hence incandescent lights appear "warm" and "yellow", florescent lights seem "glaring" and "bluish", and so on. Previously, even when you had LED lights that looked "white", the light was really only a combination of the more narrowly-defined light sources. So even though your eyes could perhaps accept the color, most cameras and visual recording devices could not. They would often hone in on the missing or under-represented light frequencies and display images that appeared "washed-out", "splotchy", or missing certain bands of color, depending on the combination of light, subject matter and recording medium. Recently however, in the past several years, that's been changing. Manufacturers have been improving their processes and are now doing a much better job of producing smooth, multi-spectral LED lighting in a variety of useful form factors.

So in the past, in selecting practical lighting sources, unless you had the engineering requirements of NASA and the funds availability of Bill Gates, LED's have historically been more of a "what if" than a "let's do it".

Gentlemen, I am happy to report, that has all changed.

-42%20PM.png Meet the LED strip light. Weighing in at practically nothing and looking more like an old celluloid moving picture reel than a modern state-of-the-art lighting system, the LED light strip comes conveniently packaged in a 5 Meter (16 feet) long "tape" strip, and operates on 12 volts DC at around 1 amp or so of power, produces no heat to speak of and costs only $20 bucks (or LESS) a roll! And if that weren't enough, it even comes with a nice bit of self-adhesive on the back side so you can just peel-n-stick it practically anywhere you want it. Though truthfully the sticky tape part isn't really that good and you'll probably want to make other arrangements to hang it. Fortunately however, that's a trivial feature. And if you want color-- have they got color... Sheesh! Any color you want, even ALL of them combined! You can get an RGB (Red-Green-Blue) version that let's you set the exact color-- whatever it is-- that suits your fancy. Hello sunset! Hello Moonshine! (Well, not Moonshine per se...)

I've been seeing these things selling on Ebay, Amazon and elsewhere awhile now but have always been a little reluctant to try them out. They've always seemed just a little bit too expensive to try on a lark for something unknown and untested. Early last year though I was in Costco and bought a little LED light strip, the kind that goes under a kitchen cabinet or something, just to see what it could be like. I figured if nothing else, I could always put it under a kitchen cabinet, or something. I set up a quick test on my layout just to see how it would look, and I have to say it wasn't too bad. Not perfect, but not terrible either. I still wasn't about to shell out the kind of money it would take (at that time) to do up the whole layout with them. And the color (I bought "bright white") wasn't quite right either, and it was particularly noticeable in the pictures. But I was definitely intrigued.

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Over the past several months I keep hovering over these reels of LED lights thinking they could really be what I want. The price is still a little high, but not so terrible anymore. And you can't argue with the power-- 12 Volts at around an amp or so is pretty much chump-change in the electrical department. I have heard though that the coloration can vary, even from successive lots by the same manufacturer. So that's yet another issue to consider before plunking down some cash. And yet there is something awfully alluring about having flexible lighting less than 1/4 inch thick that runs on 12 volt power. So after about the 40-billionth time I found myself drooling over the light reels with my finger hovering over the "Buy-it-Now" button ready to strike-- I finally said "what the heck"-- it can't be as bad as all those florescent light fixtures and tubes I bought and sacked away... Some figuring with the calculator suggested that I could get by with about 14 or so of the light strips-- so I punched in 16 and hit the button before I could chicken out again.

Here's the specs on the ones that I bought:

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Fast-forward to today... they showed up! All sixteen of 'em. In one big manilla envelope from some place in Hong Kong. Somehow I thought it would be a bigger package. But quickly brushing that aside, how well do they work?!?! Was it a waste of money? What's the verdict? Judge for yourselves!

 

First, the setup:

Using some pink foam, pins and whatnot for the deck, and a couple of 12 volt power supplies, I quickly mocked up some strips under the top deck and have taken some pictures which illustrate what you can expect from the LED strip lights. -40%20PM.png This is what they look like. You can see they are very thin. I also bought the strips which have the "SMD5050" style LED's on them. You can also purchase the strips with other, less-powerful lights, and in various other combinations such as "water-proof" (to what degree I have no idea), in colors (as I mentioned earlier), with the RGB set-your-own color option, etc. I suspect the RGB type, though more variable in that sense, probably don't produce as many lumens, which is the measured amount of light they are able to produce per watt of electricity. I just used some old variable power supplies that I available have from other projects. I set both to 12 Volts. Each of my supplies is enough to power one whole 5 Meter (16 foot) strip. When I get around to doing it for real, I'll most likely use the 12 volt side of some computer power supplies instead.

 

-55%20PM.png For my initial test, I just pinned a single line of them to the underside of the pink foam, about an eight foot section, with "T" pints, and then hooked them directly into the power supplies with some clip leads. I wasn't worried in any way about heat output which is absolutely negligible.

Once I finally had them set up, I flipped the switch and there was light! I was moderately pleased with what I saw, though the amount of illumination wasn't quite as good as I'd secretly been hoping, but it wasn't bad either. Encouraged, I looped the remaining portion of reel back around and made a second row parallel to the first. That was even nicer. So then I got out a second reel and tried yet another row in-between the first two rows. That was better still. But the backdrop was still kind-of in shadow. So I got the idea to try a fourth row angled down from the deck so that it shined more directly at the backdrop, and that looked the best of all. For comparison, I also looked at everything with the regular room illumination on-- which at this point, is mostly the upper-deck CFL lighting and some bare-bulb (CFL) room lights, but without the LED strip lights. And then again with everything, room lights, strip lights and all.

Concerned about the spectral aspect, I also hit upon the idea of setting up some photos (shamelessly plucked from the Internet-- my "inspiration" photos really) along the backdrop just to see how they would look in the LED lighting. The photos were a variety of shots of both models and prototypes, with colorations ranging from "luscious greens" to "boring blues" and exposures, some over, some under, and some right on-the-money.

Also, one other point to make before the photos-- these were all taken unprofessionally using my Samsung S3 cell phone without flash or other enhancement.

 

One LED Strip (Straight Down, Near the front):

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Now Two Strips:

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Three Strips:


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Four Strips (The fourth held by my kids at the edge of the top deck so it angles back and better illuminates the backdrop):


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No LED Strips, Just general room (ambient) lighting:

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All lights (Room / Ambient, Three LED Strips, But No Fourth Angled Strip):

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So there you have it, the long and short of it.

 

Conclusions...

My thoughts are at this point that it is definitely workable. I think I will probably want to get some more of the light strips-- I bought 16 the first time, and I reckon I'll probably end up buying another 16 or so. But here's another interesting thing that I didn't mention above-- you can cut them apart in about 3-inch strips. They come with pre-set cut locations where you can cut them with scissors and then solder them into whatever 12 volt power arrangements you've made. One of the things I've been thinking about is the possibility of making "lighting patterns" underneath the top deck-- particularly a "herringbone" pattern. That would provide pretty good illumination overall I would think, albeit at a slightly higher cost, plus the issue of soldering the wires and such. (But we're model railroaders and not intimidated in any way by soldering, are we?? Another possibility that I've been thinking about is perhaps hanging them in strips, similar to the way I've illustrated in the photos, but instead of hanging them straight down, perhaps placing them on cardboard (or something) that's been bent at a shallow angle which would permit them to direct more of their light from the front which would permit them to illuminate the backdrop more effectively. Or perhaps a combination of these techniques.

Cost-wise, all of the strips-- so far-- all 16 reels, only cost about $250 bucks, and that included FREE SHIPPING from Hong Kong. All of the sellers I looked at offered free shipping, though if you're really so inclined you can probably find someone willing to charge you for it...

Color-wise I'm satisfied with the results. In looking through the various photos I've taken and comparing them to the originals, they look quite acceptable to me, and probably will be even more so when I get another strip or two up and going. So far I'm thinking that about four strips should look about right, though the pattern may need adjusting as I mentioned above. Another thing I want to test are the RGB strips. Now that I've had some experience with the plain white ones, I'm thinking it might be cool to set up another strip that can change color which could let me model those sunrises, sunsets, and some moonshine.

Now all I need is a still...

 

John Whitten

 

Any comments?

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in its final days of steam. Heavy patronage by the Pennsy and Norfolk & Western. Coal, sand/gravel/minerals, wood, coke, light industry, finished goods, dairy, mail and light passenger service. Interchanges with the PRR, N&W, WM and Montour.
Reply 0
jeffshultz

Where did you buy them?

So, now that we know there is at least one reputable dealer of these things out there - want to hit us with a link? I'm rather interested in the 800-900 lumens a meter - that's as good as some of the brightest "bulb replacement" LED bulbs, and it sounds as if this is closer to 5000k than the 3000k LED bulbs are.

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Jeff Shultz - MRH Technical Assistant
DCC Features Matrix/My blog index
Modeling a fictional GWI shortline combining three separate areas into one freelance-ish railroad.

Reply 0
JLandT Railroad

Yes I'm impressed too...

John are you in Australia by any chance? Jason...
Reply 0
michaelrose55

Distance between lights and train

John,

It would be nice to know how close to the train in the picture your leds were mounted.

 

Reply 0
Leo Starrenburg

Soldering

did you try soldering them John ?

I made the mistake of putting the sections of strip up on the ceiling so now I've got to impersonate Michelangelo soldering the bits together upside down :-(

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After some experimenting I came up with 2 strips of warm white and one strip of RGB, all stuck to a hardwood profile which gives them a bit of an angle, for the layout. The staging area has a single warm white strip, plenty of light to let the webcam show the trains there.

 

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cheers, Leo

 

 

 

Farmers & Bluestone Railroad, a small On30 layout located in The Netherlands

 

Reply 0
Peter Pfotenhauer

Good to see your write up.

Good to see your write up. Thanks for posting. Did you shoot the layout without any room lighting on?

Honestly, I can't see much difference in any of the shots with differing numbers of LED strips, but the room light only shot is definitely more yellow.

You got a good deal, I guess, as Micro Mark wants $50 a reel, so 16 would be $800 - still too steep for my infrastructure budget for my N scale layout. But I've let lighting issues keep the layout on hold for a long time, as none of the incandescent or flouresent options out there are ones I like.

Which EBay company did you use?

Reply 0
pldvdk

Other Than A Shelf?

John,

Thanks for taking the time for this wonderful write up! Sorry about that empty reply that went to your post from me. I accidently hit the enter button when I didn't want to. Anyway... 

I can see the benefits of this kind of lighting strip for multi-deck layouts such as yours. What I'm wondering is how well these light strips would work for a single level layout, where the layout height is say around 45"-53" above the floor, but the lighting would be coming from the ceiling of the room? Based on your experiences do you think these lights be bright/strong enough to light the layout over that distance?  

My layout is being built in a finished part of our basement that already has can lighting installed. But that ends up producing some intense areas of lighting on the layout, while leaving other spots rather dim, as you can see in this picture. 

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I'm looking for something that would even out the lighting that wouldn't require a lot of rewiring or modification to the already finished room. Sounds like these light strips might be the ticket!  

Paul Krentz

N&W Pokey District, Sub 1 3/4

 

Paul Krentz

Free-lancing a portion of the N&W Pocahontas "Pokey" District

Read my blog

Reply 0
jwhitten

Lots of good questions...

Lots of good questions... here goes on the answers...

@JeffSchultz - I didn't put that in my post because I'm not "shilling" for anybody, but I don't mind answering your direct question... I purchased them in a "Buy-it-Now" deal on Ebay. Here is the listing. It looks like its still going. The seller is 'eshopstar'. The 16 sets I purchased cost me about $245 with Free Shipping. I bought them on Oct 16th and received them today-- well, yesterday at this point-- so the shipping speed was quite reasonable.

I don't have any way to test / verify / validate their specification claims. But they did run off 12 volts dc, appeared to draw somewhere in the neighborhood of an ampre, according to the tiny analog amp-meter on my power supply, and I would say, just casually, that they do appear to be in the neighborhood of the 5,000K, spectrally. One string was definitely not enough. Two didn't really seem enough either. Three or four seems about right, especially if you do something to tilt them inward.

Another thing that just occurred to me is that I might not be getting every potential lumen output that's possible out of the strings. The specs say they draw around 3 amps. My power supply says they're pulling about 1 amp or thereabouts. It might be that my power supply is slightly under-powered. It's only rated at 2 ampres-- though I do know that things only pull the power they pull and not necessarily what it says on the box. And it could be a number which includes a margin of safety and / or some inrush current draw or something along those lines.

 

@ michaelrose55 / Michael - I took a couple of shots with the ruler so you can see...

0_214124.jpg The absolute space from the lower deck to the underside of the top deck is 22-inches. Touching the bottom roadbed its around 20-inches. 16-inches to the top, and about 26-inches to the back drop. All measured from the same spot you see in this photo.

Just to point it out though-- this shot was taken well after dark outside. The only lighting you see is from the LED light strips and a few CFL's scattered around the room. The closest ones (not counting on the other side of the backdrop) are at least 20 feet away and are only bare 60 watt equivalent CFL bulbs. So they're not adding as much as you might think.

The camera though is auto-adjusting so is probably making it seem a bit brighter than it actually is. I took some more photos (on down below) with one of my other cameras, which seem way too dark, comparatively. So the truth is somewhere in the middle.

This shot (to the left) is really how it seems to me though, to my actual eye, so I would say is a better representative photo than the ones below. FWIW

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@ Leo Starrenburg -  Thanks for your comments! Also your photos. I'm especially interested in your idea for setting them on angle. That, or something very similar, might just sneak onto my layout I like the fact that it adds some support to the LED strip without really impacting the sight-lines or upper deck profile. I see you chose to string several strips onto a single support. I didn't try bunching them together. Does that seem to make any difference to you? My thinking was to spread them out a bit, front to back, so the light would be cast more evenly. However, it made a very big difference to put the one strip angling nearly straight back. Not exactly straight, but much more focused on the backdrop. I also played around for a brief minute with a strip nearer to the back and angled toward the backdrop and that seemed to work pretty well too, and it wasn't as much in the way visually.

 

@ Prof_Klyzlr - Everything you say is correct. Though in most of the photos, the room lights were off. But there was some light coming in a nearby window-- it's a heavily overcast day however, because of the hurricane that just passed by. Also there is a light about 25 feet or so behind me and around the corner that is probably producing some ambient light-- and that would definitely be a more yellowish color-- one of those warmer CFL's. But truthfully it was far enough away that for my human eyes, it didn't make a lot of difference, other than adding some general ambient lighting.

I also agree about the color variations from one lot to another, which is exactly why I bought as many sets as I did. I wanted to be sure that I could make it all the way around the layout (lower deck) and not run out. I actually figured it at running around twice with a little extra for here and there. Then if I have to buy some more at some point I'll be okay with it since it will match all the way around, albeit with whatever the new variation is (if any) and everything will blend together okay.

I am also mulling over (strongly leaning toward) adding another strip of RGB lighting which can also help "tune" the color for the general case, and of course add some nice color effects for the sunrise / sunset / moon-shine / etc. effects.

What you're saying about sellers on Ebay (and elsewhere-- it seems pretty constant) not telling you exactly what the color temperature is, or guaranteeing color consistency between lots, is definitely the case. So again, I would council factoring that into your purchasing plan and buy as many as you need to cover everything in one go-- and/or considering the color blending thing I mentioned above.

Another thing to mention is that these are the SMD5050 bright white LED's, which are quite a bit brighter than the SMD3528 or whatever other LED's are typically used in the strip lights. I specifically went looking for strips that used the SMD5050's to purchase. And then spent time looking for sellers that had plenty to sell so I could buy in quantity. The free shipping part was just a nice bonus AFAIK, the seller I bought them from ships all over the world-- check with him / them / whoever they are-- first to make sure though. So you should be able to get them at or about the same price I did, I would think.

Your mention about brightness and that of another respondent got me back downstairs for a bit with my Nikon. It's now (er, was) around 2 am and pitch dark outside. I set up a slightly different scene and turned off all the lights in the basement to run the lighting test through again. I set the camera at Shutter Speed 1/15th and Aperture (F-Stop) of 3.5 (which is a pretty darned slow lens-- but hey, it's a DSLR, what can you do??

The pictures turned out DARKER than I think is fair, compared to the naked eye. I was looking at the layout at the same time and thinking, "Gee, this is pretty nice!" but realizing it photographed a bit dark in the camera. I didn't sit around to optimize the shots though, just to get another sampling at a different hour with a different camera. I also put some other stuff into the scene, including some ground foam (albeit still in the bottle So hopefully that will give people a better sense of color and lighting. If nothing else it should do a good job of emphasizing (over-emphasizing, IMO) the difference between One, Two, Three and Four lighting strips.

 

To quickly recap: One seems a bit too dark to my eye, two is tolerable but still a little dark for my taste, Three is not bad and Four is pretty good:

 

One Strip: (Looks a lot darker in the camera than it seems to my actual eye)

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Two Strips: (Still looks a bit dark in the camera but not terrible to my eye):

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Three Strips: (Quite acceptable in person)


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Four Strips - The Fourth one is tilted toward the backdrop. Personally, I think this one looks great!

DSC_2162.JPG 

 

Also Four Strips, Aimed down and not toward the back. Makes a big difference, IMO:

DSC_2163.JPG 

There are no other lights on in the room, no daylight coming in any windows-- what you see is literally ALL you see. The colors are what they are. There is Noch ground foam in the jars, and several photo printouts on the backdrop. The cars range in color from Pennsy Tuscan Brown, to various shades of blue, a red caboose at the back of the train on top, and orange boxcars on the one on the bottom. The blues look a bit too pronounced in this light. But it is certainly tempered / tuned out when the regular (ambient) lights are on.

 

@ pldvdk / Paul - I don't know if I'd recommend the LED light strips for a more open environment, including a single deck. Although there are certainly LED bulbs that can probably do it, most LED lighting is still pretty pricey and much of it suffers from the spectral issues that I (and Prof_Klyzlr) pointed out, in that you might have spectral drop-outs, "splotchiness", etc. And the brightness may suffer at a larger distance. They are, after all, only LED's. Personally, if I had the room and heat or voltage wasn't a big issue, I'd just go with CFL's. Which is what I am using to light my upper deck. And of course as Prof_Klyzlr pointed out, it does a reasonable job of blending with the LED strips to even out the color on the lower deck too. You can see some of my improvised lighting in my first photo at the top of this thread. I put them up a few years ago as temporary lighting for a weekend visit from my (train enthusiast) uncle and they've stayed there (just fine too, I might add) ever since. In fact, the only major change I have planned is to redo them and set the sockets into metal electrical conduit and continue to let it hang from the shelf brackets (screwed in place of course). And then put a valance around it. As far as I'm concerned it works extremely well. I found a bunch of double-headed "lamp" sockets from someplace online a few years ago. I put a 60 watt equivalent (23-24 watt actual) CFL light into each socket and they produce a prodigious amount of light. Very satisfactory.

 

Thanks for the questions and pointers everybody!  Any more?

 

John

 

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in its final days of steam. Heavy patronage by the Pennsy and Norfolk & Western. Coal, sand/gravel/minerals, wood, coke, light industry, finished goods, dairy, mail and light passenger service. Interchanges with the PRR, N&W, WM and Montour.
Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

What about the workbench?

Dear John,

Thanks soo much for the info and responses. It does indeed look like you've got it under control...

Only 1 remaining question from here, did you pickup enough LED strips to mount some over the workbench too?
I'd hate to see the layout lighting get migrated to LEDs, only to have the models painted and weathered under different lighting, and the resulting model look "a little odd" when placed on the layout...
(ask me how I know this... ).

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Reply 0
nanotheater

Led light strips

Never buy anything from micro mark - 700% markup on some items. eBay-$20 including shipping.

 Cliff Enz

nanotheater@gmail.com

nanotheater.com

Reply 0
Leo Starrenburg

some photo's

Here are some photo's from my set-up:

general layout, the strips are near the valance attachment strips, LED's mounted on the angle profile shining towards the layout:

LED1.jpg 

 

This is where I'll have to solder them ;-( Did try out going round the bends with the strip but even with this easy angle it wasn't to my liking:

LED2.jpg 

 

3 sides of the room have a 2' deep shelf, the remaining side is 3+ feet deep, so I added a set of strips in that area:

LED3.jpg 

 

This set has two lengths of angle profile, one goes to the turntable, the other to a mining area, hope you can see the opposite direction:

LED4.jpg 

 

cheers, Leo

 

 

 

 

Farmers & Bluestone Railroad, a small On30 layout located in The Netherlands

 

Reply 0
rickwade

Disagree on Micro-Mark

I've bought a number of items from Micro-Mark after checking prices elsewhere and found their prices to be competitive on many items.

Rick

img_4768.jpg 

The Richlawn Railroad Website - Featuring the L&N in HO  / MRH Blog  / MRM #123

Mt. 22: 37- 40

Reply 0
Michael Tondee

Shopping around

Yes, I think the criticism of Micro-Mark is unfair also. On some things you can shop around and beat them but just as Rick says, they have competitive prices. In one case they actually beat everyone else out on a loco I bought by the fact of me letting them choose the road name and an additional 10% off coupon included in my catalog.

Michael

Michael, A.R.S. W4HIJ

 Model Rail, electronics experimenter and "mad scientist" for over 50 years.

Member of  "The Amigos" and staunch disciple of the "Wizard of Monterey"

My Pike: The Blackwater Island Logging&Mining Co.

Reply 0
jwhitten

I'm having some difficulty in

I'm having some difficulty in understanding what Micro-Mark's pricing, fair, unfair, or otherwise, has anything to do with using LED light strips for layout lighting...

John

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in its final days of steam. Heavy patronage by the Pennsy and Norfolk & Western. Coal, sand/gravel/minerals, wood, coke, light industry, finished goods, dairy, mail and light passenger service. Interchanges with the PRR, N&W, WM and Montour.
Reply 0
jeffshultz

Micro-Mark....

The fifth commenter made a statement about how much the LED light strings cost at Micro-Mark, which I believe triggered the anti-Micro-Mark post seen shortly thereafter. 

I recommend we drop that particular part of this topic. 

orange70.jpg
Jeff Shultz - MRH Technical Assistant
DCC Features Matrix/My blog index
Modeling a fictional GWI shortline combining three separate areas into one freelance-ish railroad.

Reply 0
Wazzzy

LED lights

What is your power source? How many LED strips , or feet, can be powered by it? I am in the planning phase of my layout and have 3 dedicated 15A circuits for the lighting. These LEDs are perfect for my application.

 

thanks in advance,

Wazzzy

Alan Loizeaux

CEO  Empire Trackworks   (Empire-Trackworks.com)

Modeling ON30 DRG

Husband, Father, Grandpa, Retired Military, Conductor / Yard Master Norfolk Southern, custom track work builder (S, SN3, On3, On30 & others)

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

Doing the maths

Dear Wazzy,

Firstly, the amperage of the Mains supply is not _directly_ relevant. Why? Because the "typical" 12V transformer is far smaller than the 1650Watts available from a 110VAC 15Amp US Mains outlet.

(In order to nut this out, you're going to _have_ to get comfy with the basic equation

Watts = Volts x Amps   ... ).

Let's start from the other end of the path. From the provided info, we know that 5metres of LED strip "eats" around 3Amps, and operates on 12volts DC. This means that a 12Volt 10Amp (120Watt) supply should be able to power 3 strips, or 15 linear metres of LED light strip, with some headroom to spare. (Remember, if you're going to triple-up on the strips to gain the extra brightness or beam spread, this 15metres of "powerable" strip equates to only 5metres of actual benchwork length).

Multiplying it out, the 1650 Watts available on a single 15Amp 110Volt circuit should (theoretically) be able to power around 13 x 12Volt 10A Transformers. At 15metres/transformer, that's 195 metres of LED strip.

Now, that sounds impressive, but it comes at a cost. Domestic power transformers are generally 1 of 2 types. A heavy electromagnetic (transformer) based unit will give nice solid power, but will also generate heat in the process, and can cost a fair bit. A "switchmode" or "electronic" supply is much lighter, cheaper, and doesn't generate as much heat under load. However, under load they often tend to sag (the output voltage may not maintain a solid 12V output), the output is not as "smooth", and are usually built to a price rather than a spec.

Hopefully this gives you enough info to "go forward and calc" the requirements for your particular layout config...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS NOTE that plugging in too much load into any given mains power unit _IS_ a firerisk. Just because a 15A 110V supply (wallplate) can _in_theory_ power 13x 12V 100A supplies, any "power strip", double adaptor, or other Mains-Power distribution cable may _NOT_ be rated to handle a full 15amps, This is "weakest link in the chain" theory in action, _do_not_ attempt to push the envelope. Indeed, even if you are intending on using all "high-amperage/heavy-duty" cabling and components, if in doubt, DON'T!

Reply 0
Leo Starrenburg

Power consumption

A 5m/16½' (warm) white LED strip uses about 1 Amp @ 12Vdc, a ditto RGB strip about 3 Amps max. Point is not to hook up strip after strip and feed from one point, the last ones will be pulling on the short end and give a lot less light.

I have 3 RGB strips and use a seperate feed (and controller) for each, the 5 strips of warm white are divided in 3 sections with a variable supply each. This will allow me to play with the light intensity and colour besides from getting optimum light strenght.

The power supplies I use are ex-professional cell phone rack chargers, originally set at 13.8V but I re-routed the voltage setting to external potentiometers. They are rated 4A, but I load them with 3A max.

BTW: you only need to vary between 8 to 12V to control the intensity, the LEDs are set 3 in series in the strips and won't start to give light until you're about 8V or higher

cheers, Leo

 

 

Farmers & Bluestone Railroad, a small On30 layout located in The Netherlands

 

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

which White LED strip?

Dear Leo,

Thanks for the info. However, while _your_ 5m LED strip is rated @ 1Amp, the OPs 5m strip is clearly stated as eating 3A. The lesson for anyone wishing to emulate the good results shown in this thread is to _know_the_specs_ of the LED strip they are purchasing, and know how to do the required calcs to properly connect and deploy them. (An eBay LED wholesaler won't hold your hand thru a layout lighting installation, and any LED source which does _not_ provide _real_meaningful_ specs should be Run Away From Very Quickly).

I do also take the tip about varying the voltage in order to vary the brightness. It's worth noting that LEDs are _Current_ devices,

IE they are more concerned with the available Amps (or "current") available than the Voltage.
This is why varying the value of the _resistor_ (and therefore the _current_) used with an single LED when connecting to a 12V decoder output changes the brightness, despite the decoder's output _voltage_ being the same.
(12V decoder output with a 1000ohm resistor provides 0.012Amps for the LED.

Volts = Amps X Ohms
12 = 0.012 X 1000 

Change to a 500ohm resistor, and 0.024 milliamps are available for the LED.

Volts = Amps x Ohms
12 = 0.024 X 500

NB that most single LEDs will handle a max of around 0.030Amps before they go "pop"!).

So, how come varying the _volts_ seems to vary the brightness too?
Answer is in another of the "electronics 101" formulas

Volt = Amps (current) x Ohms (resistance)

Now, we don't actually know what the resistance of a 5m strip of LEDs is, but we can safely work on the basis that it's a constant value. (If the LEDs resistance value changes, something is very definitely wrong with the LED!!!)

If therefore
- we lower the Volts
- and the "resistance" of the LEDs does not change
- then the available current (Amps) _must_ become less

Hold on, didn't we say that varying the available current in Amps (or milliamps in the case of LEDs) is what changed the brightness of an LED?

To restate, varying the volts does not directly change the brightness of an LED,
lowering the volts lowers the available current in the circuit,
and the lowering of the available current "dims" the LEDs in consequence...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

NB that varying the volts/amps to an LED is a fairly coarse way of controlling the 0-100% brightness range. Various PWM controllers are available to do this efficently and safely. However, they are a whole different thread unto themselves...

Reply 0
Leo Starrenburg

PWM

I could rig up a 555 with a FET to try out PWM control, but as the LED strips have no inductivity to speak of wouldn't that be the same as simply varying the voltage with the modified power supplies ?

cheers, Leo

Farmers & Bluestone Railroad, a small On30 layout located in The Netherlands

 

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

PWM LED dimming...

Dear Leo,

Using PWM to drive LEDs works essentially like 24fps film,
IE if we "turn on" the LED for only x% of a second
(broken up into many short "flashes" so the eyes don't actually see it as a "strobe" effect),

then we as humans can percieve a "dim", "mid", and "bright" LED.
(by varying X, or the "duty cycle" of the LED ON time).

FWIW http://www.reuk.co.uk/LED-Dimmer-Circuit.htm

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Reply 0
arcadia logger

final photo's of 2012 NMRA convention

Jeff:

I have been asked by several guy's in our area if you ever posted the "best for last" photo's of the Grand Rapids convention. You indicated that you would post these "best for last" photo's the next day but I don't recall seeing them. Some were of my layout so I was interested in seeing them.

Skip Luyk

Reply 0
jeffshultz

Grand Rapids....

Skip,

You know, I was just thinking about that earlier today.... I got distracted and don't believe I did post your layout (I was hoping to get that HOn3 one approved, but he never e-mailed back).

I seem to remember I've got a lot of photos from the train show as well...

 

orange70.jpg
Jeff Shultz - MRH Technical Assistant
DCC Features Matrix/My blog index
Modeling a fictional GWI shortline combining three separate areas into one freelance-ish railroad.

Reply 0
On30guy

LEDs do work for layout lighting

It's late and way past my bedtime so I've just skimmed the comments on this forum but thought I should add a quick post. I apologize if someone has covered this already. Briefly, this is what I have done.

I have ripped out all my CFLs and replaced my layout lighting with LED strips and am very glad I have. I've gone from a bunch of un-dimmable CFLs  to having a completely automated system that changes the colour and intensity of the lighting over the course of our operating sessions. We go from night, dim blue lighting, gradually getting lighter and warmer to the oranges of sunrise building into the white light of noonday sunshine and then receding back into night. This sort of control IMHO is easier and cheaper than those available for 110V systems.

PS. I've seen these comments before regarding the shear 12V amperage needed to run the LED strips. Firstly you cannot link these strips end to end around your layout. If you do the first LED will be bright as hell and the last one will be dark, and you'll probably burn through the copper traces on the first strip. When you're buying your LED strips also look for something called an amplifier, they are about $10.00 and allow you to hook up as many strips as you want, all controlled buy the same signal but powered individually. (either a bunch of smaller power supplies or one big one.)

Suffice it to say, I have done it. It was an uphill battle at times with it's challenges and detriments, but I am extremely happy that I did it.

Rick Reimer,

President, Ruphe and Tumbelle Railway Co.

Read my blogs

Reply 0
kleaverjr

What about wanting a certain color range...

It would seem if temperature/color consistency is a concern, that there is no "cheap" LED's.  Specifically, I want 5000K for the color.  At the moment I intend on using 5W, 5000K CFL's located every 2' to light my P&A layout.  I would like to use LED Strips instead, however the cheapest I can find is $7 a foot.  Maybe 5-10 years the price per foot will come down where it will make it more affordable, especially when I have over 450 Linear Feet. 

Ken L

Reply 0
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