What kind of Airbrush? Harbor

What kind of Airbrush? Harbor freight sells cheap stuff, just wondering. Also what kind of paint are you using? Brandname?

The first airbrush was a

The first airbrush was a gift, so I do not know what type it is. It is a dual action, but I doubt it is a good name brand. But it does not work anyway.

The other two I bought today are Harbor Freight.

The Paint is Polyscale.

Jim

And I am thinking that there

And I am thinking that there must be particles in the paint that is clogging up the needle and hole. So I may need to filter the paint before I put it into the cup/container.

Jim

Jim, From my experience

Jim,

From my experience (and I have not painted anything in the last 4/5 years, but when I was doing it I painted brass and plastic) latex paint (Pollyscale) is very hard to spray. I know people have used it and swear by it. But, I had the same problems you are describing. I used Scalecoat or Floquil when possible and got a lot better results. The second thing I did was buy the cheapest single action air brush I could find.

Cheap air brush and Scalecoat/Floquil make a good combination.

Hope this helps,

Jerome

A few thoughts

If the paint has been opened before and sat, throw it out and start new, even just trying it out but especially if you trying to paint something worth keeping. 

If you can't get water through it, no need to try paint.  

What PSI are you setting it at? 

What is your thinning % and what are you thinning it with?

Steve

The paint is brand new. The

The paint is brand new.

The guys who I talked to at the train shop said it could be shot without thinning. It didn't work, so I thinned it 1 to 1. Still would not come out.

And yes the new airbrush sprayed water no problem. It is the paint it will not spray. Should I thin it even more?

Jim.

Try this

Without being there and seeing it all I would try this since water is flowing well.

I would stir the paint well in the jar with a good mixer like this

http://www.micromark.com/cordless-mixer-for-model-paints,7616.html

A paperclip in a dremal can work with some care in a pinch.  I would take some of the stired paint in a separate jar and mix with Polly S thinner ( not because there aren't other things to use, you just don't want too many variables) according to the recommendations on the bottle (25% if i remember correctly).  Mix that well and strain it once before putting in the airbrush.  I would spray that at about 20 psi and that should work. 

Just because paint is new to you doesn't mean it isn't old.  If you still have problems I would try a different bottle, a different  brand (just to see how it does as I like Poly S), and from a different source.

Steve

OK Steve. I will try what you

OK Steve. I will try what you have suggested. and I have one of those mixers. I will give a try tomorrow, and post with the results. Thanks everyone.

Jim

Harbor Freight Brushes

  Jim,

  I have both the single action and dual action brushes from Harbor Freight.  Both spray well.  The single action is an EXTERNAL mix brush.  It should be able to spray Pollyscale acrylic straight out of the bottle, but I found it took 30-35 PSI to get it to spray consistently.  I would also advise AGAINST using alcohol as a thinner for the acrylics.  It has a drying effect on the paint as it is being sprayed (making fouling the tip worse) and messes with the chemistry of the paint.  The dual action is an INTERNAL mix brush, you should be able to spray Pollyscale straight with this brush as well, though it will be happier with the paint thinned a bit (2-3 parts paint to 1 part thinner).  Use ACRYLIC thinner!

  Start off by checking out the brush make sure the tips are not bent, nozzles and orifices not clogged.  If you see paint residue, soak the parts in alcohol and get the, CLEAN.  Reassemble the brush and make sure the needle is seated correctly and the nut is snug (this is what makes the needle pull back when you work the trigger on the dual action ).   Spray just plain water through the brush and adjust your pressure, needle and nozzle to get your desired spray pattern.  Once you have all this set, you are ready to load paint and spray.  

  There are adjustments on the brush to make it spray differently.  The single action there is a screw on the siphon section leading into the nozzle.  Turning this out (larger opening) allows more paint to flow.  If you have it turned in all the way, you will get hardly any paint and it will clog up almost instantly, or be very erratic.   On the dual action this is controlled by pulling BACK on the trigger as your hold it DOWN.

  When you set the needle on the single action, make sure the mixing screw (the adjustment I mentioned above) is turned all the way IN before you set the nut.  In other words, unlock the nut on the back of the needle, pull the needle back a tiny bit, screw the mixing adjustment IN all the way, LIGHTLY push the needle in and set the nut.  NOW back the mixing adjustment out to set then spray pattern.

  The external mix is good for larger areas - not as much control over the spray pattern or amount of paint.  The internal dual action is better for smaller areas, finer lines - though it can cover a pretty good swath if adjusted properly. 

  I am pretty new to airbrushing too, but this is my experiences with these particular airbrushes.

Toni

Filter

Aside form one comment, I haven't heard much about filters.  When I bought a stainless mesh filter for my paint jar, it was the single best investment I made when it comes to paint.  Before that, I was having constant clogging issues - since then, nothing.  I spray acrylics (by preference) without any issues whatsoever.  They do seem to clog the airbrush easily, but it's not the paint drying or being too thick, it's little clots floating in the paint, and the filter solves that issue beautifully.

If the airbrush is spraying something uncloggable, like water, alcohol, or thinner, then the issue is the paint.  If not, there's a problem internally.  Double check all the adjustments, etc.  I would also second the suggestion for a cheap single action external mix unit.

Instruction Videos

I found these quite helpful: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?annotation_id=annotation_305369&feature=iv&p=11472D3558AEA3F7&src_vid=5vDgaRqlhI0

What I learned is that everybody says: "practise, practise and than practise", but few mention the fact that it pays to practise with the same set-up, e.g. same paint, same thinner, same mix, same airbrush, same air pressure.

Only when you got the "feel" for that particular set-up change one of the factors. I found myself running in circles before I applied the above, just my ¢2 ...

cheers, Leo.

OK So I went back out there,

OK So I went back out there, and this time opened another paint bottle that I had not used yesterday. This time I thinned with water, and still nothing came out. Frustrated because the water is blowing through no problem.

So I decided to take the bottle off and blow into the bottle... but it was stuck (the air). I finally got the air to go through (and cleaned black paint off of my glasses and face), and I finally got paint to come through the sprayer. So water is a better thinner than the denatured alcohol.

I will still get some of the other thinner for acrylics, but I will get some distilled water to work with as well. I guess it is experience and a learning curve. Of course my learning curve tends to be an inverted parabola that is in the shape of a mountain.

again thanks for all of the input. It is very nice having a place to sound off and get some people with experience. It really helps the novice like myself.

Jim Lowery

Here's a link to a guy from

Here's a link to a guy from Badger going through it all in depth.  If you can get past how many times he says, "ok" it's not a bad video, at least the parts I watched.  He talks not only about Badger stuff but all the manufacturers and he seems quite knowlegable. 

I think the advice to get a

I think the advice to get a good filter sounds like your salvation. If you can spray water but not paint, then the paint most likely has little blobs in it -- even ones too small to see will quickly plug up the tiny opening for the paint to emerge at the needle.

When you finish spraying always run air brush cleaner through it. Don't do this with the needle wide open (lots of paint/liquid flow). Do it at various settings. The air brush cleaner will do the best job with the needle slightly open.

btw. I used to use Poly Scale airbrush thinner with Poly Scale paint with good results. The last batch I tried seemed to cause coagulation because the airbrush clogged almost instantly. I switched to 70% isopropyl alcohol and life was good. Maybe Poly Scale switched formulations at some point and I got a mismatch? I sure don't know what happened...

I also find that a double action is less prone to clogging. If it starts to clog, I work the needle back and forth a few times. and flow is restored. I'm guessing it helps force a tiny clump through the needle but this is highly unscientific.

FWIW

Good luck

Charlie

Acrylic is a water based

Acrylic is a water based paint. Thinning with alcohol will evaporate the water base faster. Some people swear by the alcohol thinning. I use regular old tap water for Pollyscale paint. You could use distilled water if you want. The paint should have the consistency of 2% milk to run through your brush at 20 to 30 PSI. Straight from the bottle requires a larger needle and tip and cranking up the pressure to around 40 to 50 PSI. Use the alcohol for cleaning your air brush but a better alternative would be windex or windshield washer solvent. Put a little in the cup or preferably the bottle and spray on a white paper towel until it is clear of color. Then lightly  cover the tip and push down and pull back the trigger to blow back into the cup or bottle then look at the thinner for any debris or color. If there is any particles or color then you will have to take it apart to clean it good. Be careful of the needle. They get damaged very easily.

         Pete

Water downside

The downside with thinning with water, as opposed to thinning with acrylic thinner, is that not only do you thin the consistency but you also thin the acrylic itself.  This makes your paint more brittle.  By using an acrylic thinner you only thin the pigments (color and fillers) but not the binders (the acrylic). 

I know there are tons of folks out there that have painted objects that "have been thinned with water that spend 12 hours a day in a pre school" and never had a problem, I'm just saying it something to consider in YOUR choice of thinners.  Painting a building that will rarely be handled, you may choose to thin with water, painting a club car that gets man handled every Saturday, you may want to consider the acrylic.   Acrylic tinned will stand the test of time better.

Just food for thought

Steve

What is your air souce

I read lots of good advice on thinning paint, but if your paint is properly thinned with the proper thinner, it may be your air source. What is your air source?

I have solved a lot of my airbrush problems by getting a good compressor with a tank. I also have a moisture trap coming off of the tank and another moisture trap at the end of my air hose. Clean dry air will help your paint flow better.

What pressure are you using when you spray?   I use 20 to 30 lbs with acrylics.

I know others will disagree with me, but I really don't think Pollscale is intended for airbrushing, I have switched to Vallejo paints and airbrushing is a lot smoother (just my opinion)

Bill B.

OK here is what I did. I

OK here is what I did.

I ordered some acrlylic thinner, but it is not here yet.

I thinned with water, filtered the paint with some stocking I got from my wife and turned the presure up on my compressor 30 -40 psi.

I have a very big compressor with a 5 gallon tank, and I have an inline regulator with a water trap.

It finally painted well tonight. for the more part the building is painted. i am going to let it dry tonight and do another coat tomorrow. But at least I painted.

I am hoping that the thinner will give better results. But at least I did piant tonight.

Jim.

Not Poly-S thinner, Steve , as I found out the hard way.........

.....................in this thread:

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/9334

Peter

Ken from Badger

I've attended two clinics that Ken has given.  the last being at the NMRA National Convention in Grand Rapids.  Ken is a great presenter.  Obviously he knows the topic very well, but he is funny and honest about what you should be buying and not buying.  If he doesn't know the answer he says so.  His clinics are not just infomercials for Badger.  One thing I won't do is buy an airbrush from harbor Freight (at least one I expect to last).  They are cheap Chinese knock offs and while they might look just like a Badger or Paasche airbrush, they aren't.  If you need replacement parts, you can't buy them.  I bought a cheap HF airbrush that look like a Badger 350 to use as basically a disposable item so I didn't have to be concerned about messing up my other airbrushes.  Funny that the paint lid that fit in a real 350 won;t fit in the HF one.  They looked the same but weren't.  They asl odidn't fit the jars quite right either.  Close, but not quite tight.

First bit of advice - go out and invest in a good quality name brand airbrush.  You want good results, use good quality tools.

Regarding the OP's problems, he latest post was the first he mentioned what air pressure he was using.  he said he turned it up to 30 psi.  It sounds like one of the problems he had was too low an air pressure.  Acrylics take a higher psi that solvent paints, add to that he's using a siphon feed airbrush (which needs a higher psi than a gravity feed) and I think that's a contributing factor.  The other issues described all compound the problem.  So the cause is not one thing but a combination of many.

Filters

In-bottle filters and the mrs.'s stockings can be ok for filtering paint, but I prefer the screened funnels that are sold in art supply stores. The set I have came with #80, #60 and #40 screens and the #80 works well for acrylics in airbrushes.

Filtering paint before it goes into the jar or color cup seems like a better practice.

Can you give a brand name or

Can you give a brand name or link to the filtered funnels you mentioned?   I am having trouble finding them.

I got my filtered funnels

I got my filtered funnels from Micro-Mark.  I also got my paint mixer from them.  When I started using those two items, almost all my air-brushing frustrations went away.

Two other cheap "tools" that I have found really helpful:  disposable plastic gloves, and Q-tips to help clean the airbrush.

-- Steve

Funnels

Mine came from a local art/drafting supply store that closed a couple years ago. The hang card calls it an "artist strainer" (grisly thought) and says it's "a product of Motor Guard Corporation, Manteca, CA 95336 (415) 838-7777. The phone number has changed and I don't see any products like that on their current web site.

The funnels from Micro Mark look very similar.

Dick Blick stocks the same things in sets or individually.

Between the strainers and genuine brand-matched thinners, I have few problems -- assuming I follow my routine.

Steve mentions tools: I get a lot of use out of the Badger paint tip reamer, which takes out dried paint you can't reach any other way.

Our club group-bought a Harbor Freight airbrush that lasted about six months; my Badgers are more than 30 years old and still fine.