Problem

It sounds like a problem with the track for sure. If all drivers are flanged tight radius curves with definately derail the locomotive every time. and same for switches. if you arent using a #4 equal (Im mostly a HO man) a locomotive of this size wont go through it, with maybe the occasional lucky passage.

Watch the locomotive carefully as it negotiates the curves and switches, you will be able to tell if its this problem. Also, if he is running the locomotive at high speeds through switches this will cause derailments. And check track for level and make sure its done smoothly, and check it for gauge, for this use a N scale NMRA track gauge, if you dont have one, your local hobby dealer should, if not easily had via mail order.

good luck..

guy

Bachmann specifies a minimum

Bachmann specifies a minimum radius of 19" for their N scale J's, so operation on what I presume is a beginner E-Z Track set with 11.25 or 17" radiuses will result in derailments.  I find that my J's will have tracking problems on anything less than about 20" radius.  They also have problems negotiating less than #6 switches, but I have not tested them with the Bachmann E-Z Track #6's.

Ken

I did not catch the minimum

I did not catch the minimum radius requirement when I bought the J loco. I assumed that if Bachmann sold the engine, it would negotiate the track they sell....My BAD. But in looking at the Bacnmann specs it says 11.25 inch radius required for the J and the track is 11.25 radius and the switches are #4. So what's with that????

The steam loco's I owned 50 years ago did not have have all the drivers flanged. The center ones usually were machined off to allow HO 18 inch radius curves which is equivalent to 11.25 indh in N gage, I think. 

This is the third time Bachmann has gotten me in the last six months. There may be a pattern here. I bought their Ho PCC trolley and the body sat way too high on the wheels. I finally bought the Bowser motor update which lowered the body onto the chassis pretty much where they belonged. The trolley on close inspection was merely a toy and not a model. Then there is this J that broke almost immediately and now will not negotiate turns it is suppose to. And finally they asked me to desist in posts about products other than their own on their forum so I left for good. I am getting the impression that they are not into model railroading for the model railroader but just to make money. But I'll admit I love their Spectrum Brill and Peter Witt trolleys. They are indeed well made models.

Oh well such is life!

LDBennett

Same old Bachman

From the Bachmann J web page: This locomotive performs best on E-Z Track® curves with a minimum radius of 19 inches.

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products.php?act=viewProd&productId=1701

Bachmann quality has always been iffy, and as a result I have resorted to buying extra spare parts and even spare locomotives.  All three of my HO shays have failed, and the list of problems with the Large Scale stuff is nearly endless.  But I needed the J's to pull my N scale Tennessean through Virginia, so I bought a pair.  I had also purchased one of Bachmann's HO J's, but it did not run out of the box. I returned the engine and splurged on one of the excellent Broadway Limited HO J's as a replacement.

Note: After tightening, run-in and decoder installation the N J's have performed fairly well.

Ken

With all due respect..

It was this train set mentality which, for so many years, prevented manufacturers from making scale models.  "It has to work on 18" radius!"  "It has to work with snap switches!"  Never mind that "it" might be a Union Pacific Big Boy which was far too large to run on the majority of prototype lines, let alone the ridiculous demands that we as modelers put on our models.  It was only when it became clear that people would buy a scale model, with at least semi-scale limitations, that manufacturers finally started making less toy-like trains.

In HO scale, I can buy 15" radius curves.  I would NEVER expect a scale model of the Powhatan Arrow to actually make it around such a curve, however.  The only model railroad scales in which that might be true are O27 and G, and even those are changing these days.

I'm sorry, I know I come across as trying to lecture you and call you wrong, and I really don't mean to be condescending or pedantic.  It's just that it's unreasonable to expect every item in a given scale (even from a single manufacturer) to be compatible with every other item.  Variety is the spice of life, after all.

4 8 4s Derailing

I have two 484s and they run great on a 16" flex track reversing loop.  so it really is the same as your grandsons 3' x 6'  the reverse loop is on a 3' wide section of the layout.  Let me tell you what the problem is.  BACHMAN.  my 2 engines are made by Con Car /Riverossi I must have over 2000 hours on one and at least 1000 on the other newer 4 8 4.  I have done a few repairs on the 1st unit over the years but I have this engine for over 30 yrs and it creeps through switchs with no stalls and runs at 80 mph for long periods of time pulling 18 freight cars or 6 80' passanger cars that are lighted up 2.5  percent grades.  Bachman has not changed much but I admit they are better than they use to be.  the same old story " you get what you pay for.  Use a smaller steam engine I have 2 Bachman 2 8 0s consolidateds I worked and tweeked them out of the box but they run smooth and fine and can make a 9.75 radius curve.

 Logger01: Well, their

  Logger01:

Well, their forum may say the engine must run on 19 inch radius curves (this is "N" gage not HO ????) but their catalog clearly states the minimum radius is 11.25 inches which my grandson's track surely is (I checked). Here is a cut and past out of their 2012 catalog:

  DKRickman:

If you can not believe the catalog spec what can you believe?

There is no reason I can think of that this J loco should have all the drivers flanged. The flanged drivers normally limit the minimum radius. Why make them all flanged?.

I recognize that an articulated could not run on my grandson's layout and the J loco is not all that huge and should, especially if the catalog says it should.

Bachmann makes track in 11.25, 12.5, 14, 17.5, and 19 inch radius and this engine will only operate on the 19 inch radius? That seems rather limiting and stupid to me.

Why would Bachmann claim one minimum radius in the catalog and a different one on their forum...DUMB.

My expectation are not too high. I expect the loco to do what they say it will do in the catalog. Bachmann is now on my list of manufacture's to avoid, based on this and a couple of other things listed above in my earlier post.

  Lenny Pampaloni:

My grandson has a double diesel and the Penn GG1 that work flawlessly (I think both are KATO?). The J loco will become a display piece or maybe a kids climb on loco in the park on my grandson layout unless someone knows exactly why this loco won't meet its specs. I think it is the flanged middle drivers (??).

LDBennett

4-8-4 J

If its N scale It will run on you're 11.25 curves, but I am guessing that the drivers are out of gauge. My guess is that they are a bit wide. Try getting an N M R A track and wheel gauge and checking them.  Is this the newest run in the plastic box ?  The older runs wern't very good runners to start with, but the newest version Should be a good runner. ...HTH.....Mike

Another look at the "J" problem?

The way my grandson's layout is set up I can not really see the problem up close (it is the lower level of a bunk bed in the corner of the room). I think I'll take the loco home along with some extra track he has and see if I can actually see the problem up close.

It was in the plastic box new and this is unit number two as the first one broke after a few hours of running (drivers got out of sync with each other as seen on the connecting rods) and Bachmann sent back what appeared to be new one(??).

LDBennett

Don't forget to look at "side play" on the drivers.

I belong to an HO scale modular club.  Years ago I bought a Bachmann 2-8-0.  It was a Bachmann +, not the newer 2-8-0 that came out in the Spectrum line.  Our specifications for curves on the layout require a 36 inch minimum radius and the outside main has a 38 inch minimum.  I found that the 2-8-0 would not run on the layout due to the side play allowing the side rods to hit the valve gear and lock up the locomotive every few feet.  I figured I could fix it with some thin shims glued to the plastic frame behind the drivers, so I did that.  The next time I tried to run it, it would not make the 38 inch radius of the outside main.  I took the locomotive apart and removed the shim from the 3rd and 4th drivers, but left the shims in place on the 1st and 2nd drives.  Finally it would work on the layout.  Allowing the drivers to shift from side to side in curves is a trick that steam engine manufacturers use to allow them to operate on tighter radius curves.  

http://www.bachmanntrains.com

My looking in the Bachmann Catalog clearly shows this locomotive they sent you in replacement for your old one is designed for 19" radius.

My bet is, you're looking at the old specs in an outdated catalog or on an outdated website.  The old J may indeed would have run on 11.25", but the new one does not.  Either way, if you had wider curves, you;d see the difference between the two models.

There is nothing Wrong with your locomotive, nor will any easy tinkering produce a locomotive that can easily accommodate the tighter curves you're trying to put it through.

I'd suggest getting either a Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 or a Kato 2-8-2, if the kid MUST have steam, or simply adding a line with wider curves for the J to run on and simply teach him not to run the J on those tighter curves.

19 " radius

Its the HO model that requires 19 " radius. The N scale model will run on 11.25 radius , and has run on 9.75 also though not as well as the 11.25. Here is a link to the Spookshows Locomotive Buyers Guide....HTH.....Mike  http://www.visi.com/~spookshow/classj.html

...

This link is the official page on the Bachmann site, they have it labeled at the N scale version, not the HO scale model, Model Number 82154.

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products.php?act=viewProd&productId=1702

Again, that link takes you right to the page for the N scale J, not the HO scale J. 

There is a second J available, whereas the previous one has the auxiliary tender:

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products.php?act=viewProd&productId=1701

Product Code: 82153

Both N scale.

Both ask for a 19" radius.

So a locomotive that cannot run on Bachmann's double track?

Bachmann's other N E-Z track llarge radius is only 17.5 inches. (presumably for the inner of any double track curves).

Which means it's possibly OK to leave, but not come back?

Bachmann site

 Hi Benny ! Not trying to cause any problems, but I believe that what is in the N scale discription is pretty much copied from their HO catalog.   I much sooner believe anything on the Spookshow site over anything that is printed in the magazines or in a catolog . .....Mike

...

Perhaps...

But take this into consideration:

I have the Heavy Mountain, The club layout had a minimum radius all around except for one key point on the layout in a curve where it drops in to about 28"  My front truck will derail there Every Single Time.  Based upon my experience, my HO engine has a minimum radius of roughly 29."

Now I went looking for the HO J model, and found the description on a vendor's site, likely taken straight from Bachmann's literature:

• DCC-equipped for speed, direction, and lighting
• Sound Equipped
• Operating headlight
• Separately applied metal parts
• Alligator cross heads
• See-through frame
• RP25 wheels
• E-Z Mate; Mark II couplers
• Recommended Minimum Radius: 22

I was also able to look around a bit and ran into one of Bachmann's other 4-wheel pony truck engine, the N scale  4-8-2, and it also asks for a 19" radius.

I think it's fairly safe to say at this point that if the manufacturer says it's 19" and the experiment went found the engine derails every time it hits less than 19" radius, it's fairly safe to conclude the manufacturer's information is accurate.

Front truck derailment fix.

What has not been mentioned is how to keep that front truck on the tracks. I remember a discussion some time ago about the front pilot being mounted upside down at the factory.  Flipping it over fixed the derailments. Another thing I did in my N-Trak days was to flatten small fishing line sinkers and glue those to the front pilot truck frame.  The added weight helped to keep the pilot on the rails.

Den

N vs HO Norfolk and Western "J"

If the N scale is anything like the Bachmann HO J, you will be returning it quite a few times and it will not get any better. I finally agreed to exchange mine for dollar equivalent in other products, minus the $30 or so I spent in postage.

Ray

Bachmann screwed me again!

This whole issue of minimum radius is confusing but I found out why:

The link is for 82154 and the radius called out on that Bachmann page is 19 inches. If from that link page you search out the 82153 (the version I have) you get the same 19 inch minimum radius.

The 2012 Bachman Catalog (downloaded off their web page exactly 6 months ago) calls out 11.25 inches for both the 82154 and the 82153. I just downloaded the 2012 catalog off their web page minutes ago and it is the same as the one downloaded in March of this year. It too says the turning radius is 11.25 inches for both the 82153 and 82154. The "J" I have is the 82153 which differs only in external details from the 82154.

So my beef is with Bachmann. It was NOT my stupidity of ordering an engine that will not run on my grandson's layout! Bachmann has a misprint in their full .pdf 2012 catalog as downloaded off their web pages.

LDBennett

Bachamnn - the parts people

Perhaps it would be helpful to think of Bachmann as a parts manufacturer.  They make some really lovely model parts, but the overall execution and service is usually bad and unusually spotty.  As such, I would never buy a Bachmann model and expect it to run straight out of the box.  I know it's a hard pill to swallow and it's frustrating to buy a model (especially when the model is a gift for a child) that does not work as expected, but those with more time in the hobby can tell you that your story is not unique.

As I see it, you have two options.  Complain to Bachmann and get your money back, or find a local hobbyist who can make the model run reliably on your layout.  It's not fair that you should have to do either one, but I cannot think of any better suggestion.

Called Bachmann on their mistake

DKRickman:

I have requested help (money or credit or ???) from Bachmann and we'll see what they offer if anything. I heavily documented to them that their internet products page does not agree with their current .pdf downloaded 2012 catalog.

If I have to fix it I think removing the flanges from the four interior drivers will probably do the trick. Why they did not do that in the first place is beyond me (??).

I have a Bachmann HO PCC trolley that was nothing more than a toy and required a Bowser chassis and new motor to look correct. As it came the body sat entirely too high and the Bowser chassis fixed that. But I have a couple of Bachmann/Spectrum HO trolleys (Brill and Peter Witt) that are gorgeous and run well. I will no longer buy Bachmann anything, if I can help it. I have Bowser and  Con-Cor's trolleys that are superb right out of the box. I would not hesitate to buy from either of them again.

What a shame that with their nicely done shinny paper catalog that their products do not live up to that image. They probably have the best advertising media in the business.  It is disappointing to say the least.

I am returning to this hobby after being away for about 55 years.The learning experience has been good. It is amazing how many of the names are still around. Years ago Bachmann was European N gage only and I was surprised they did HO. The fluffy catalog peaked my interest. Too bad they totally destroyed that interest with this problem and a couple of others along the way in the last 6 months.

Thanks for you comments.

LDBennett

Blind Drivers

Well, many (most?) modelers these days would turn their noses up at something like that.  Blind drivers (except as prototypically appropriate) are not as well accepted as they once were.  I think modelers today are moving more toward "big engines for big layouts" and otherwise willing to accept that some engines will not work on their layouts.

If it works for you, then by all means remove the drivers.  However, I would first suggest that you double check the gauge on all wheels, and look at the swing of the trucks.  In fact, try removing the trucks completely and run the model as an 0-8-0.  If it still derails, then you will have to look at the drivers for a solution - either by removing flanges or increasing side play.

Good luck with Bachmann.  You might point out that you've posted this thread as well.  One mad modeler might not be much of a problem for them, but egg on their face in front of thousands of people is a different story altogether.

Blind Drivers - Probably Not A Solution

It may work but first check out and run the loc in on some borrowed or purchased 19" radius track.  If it does not run well it is not a candidate for rework and continue beating up on Bachmann.  If it runs OK it may be a candidate for updating with lots of careful rework.

Although blind drivers might seem to be a solution, just machining off the flanges may actually cause more problems. To prevent the blind drivers from dropping off the rails just rolling down a section of straight track or especially on tight curves, as part of the rework you will have to eliminate almost all driver side play. This may still not be adequate for 11.25" radius curves where the inside edge of the wheels on the inside of the curve will be still be right at the outside edge of the curve inside rail head (floating in air). If there is much vertical play, and there is some, then can we say designed to derail. Manufactures, both prototype and model, often widened the tires of blind drivers to prevent this. Can we say UGLY!

Alternatively you may be able to fit another manufactures drive into the J. You have to purchase another loc, but you can check out donor operation on tight curves before you do the transplant. 

Again, My N scale J is a a fairly good runner on several layouts, but the minimum curves are in the 20" radius range.

Ken

 Logger01: Thanks for the

  Logger01:

Thanks for the comments. What you say makes sense.

My first choice is my money back. My second choice is store credit. And my absolute last choice is to fix it and I may just eat it rather than do that (??).

The engine was an unsolicited gift to my grandson and the grandson is not all that into steam engines. He has a diesel and a GP11 that he really likes and returning the J would not hurt his feelings.

But if Bachmann does not come through then I will yell loud and clear everywhere I can that Bachmann does not own up to their obvious mistakes or take responsibility for them. I have yet to hear back from them on my email to them. I will not drop this issue with them.

LDBennett