Dry stone walls

Hi Tom

On a previous layout I made my own stone walling, from small bits of real stone and clear Bostick adhesive.  It took a while, but running up a hillside, it looked the part.  Never having had the pleasure of visiting New England, I had no idea the same skills were used in the fields there.

I have made some lengths in 1:1 scale myself and have a couple of books on the skill if you would like to borrow one.  I know this walling as "Dry stone walling".  Different areas of the UK use different stone (the primary crop as you say) found locally and there are local styles.  A good Waller could recognise who had built a particular length from the way it was constructed.  I guess I wasn't too bad at 1:1 scale as when I last looked on Google Street View, my length was still standing after almost 30 years!

The pictures in Google Images are often Country specific.  If you log into https://www.google.co.uk/imghp?hl=en&tab=iiand type Dry Stone Walling, there are pages and pages of pictures. If you type "North Yorkshire moors dry stone walling" into the search field, Google will give you region specific walls.  Your picture reminds me of the area around the North Yorkshire Moors Railway between Pickering and Goathland and those were the sort of walls you find in the forested areas in Autumn.  I know this style of walling as "Ice worn Granite", using rounded field stones. And when you are creating your masterpiece, don't forget the 'cripple holes' and of course a stile for workmen.

Norman

Stone walls.......

..... can be made with aquarium pebbles. You could also shift real dirt and collect the pebbles for color variety. Just start laying them like a real wall, glue with hot glue and weather after.

Scotch Bright pads

I remember reading about making rock walls by cutting strips of Scotch Bright pad, dipping them in glue, and rolling them in whatever rock you want.  The results look pretty good to me, but it's been a while since I've seen it done and I've never tried it in person.  I would think that using a black or brown pad would work better than green.

So the consensus

So the consensus so far is that it would be better to make my own from real stone than this set.

I'm a bit at odds with that, as the tiny pebbles are the wrong shape (color we can deal with). Most pebbles I find that would be at this scale are very rounded - which if you look at the prototype above, most of those are not.

Norman - check your phone texts!

...

if you had two metal plates 1/8" or 1/4" thick, I'd think you could set them as far apart [1/8th inch, 1/16th inch] as you want your rock wall wide, get some sand-pebble mix [no clasts bigger then 2 mm, very little silt or clay], and then put the rock mixture in that groove.  Add a white-glue mixture and let it set.  Once dry, hit it with paints if it's off from what you want, or find an area with sand and sediment in the color you desire.

You'll probably want wax paper or clear wrap under the groove, and may have to wrap it up around the metal edges to ensure no adhesion to your plates, but cleaning up the plates should be easy enough - warm water.

Plaster

Maybe you could mix up some plaster in different thickness, even with a bit of tint, then break it up to get the types of edges that you need.

Roy

The problem with the 2 plate method.....

.... is that the casting would not follow the ground profile.

You could also scratch build flat pieces of rock. Make a flat thin plaster casting. When dry break into small pieces. Make several batches of stain ( different colors and/or shades ) , put a bunch of pieces in a strainer, dip into one stain, let dry, repeat as needed for each different color, assemble wall. Weather. Serve cold.

Flexible walls

There was an article in MR many years ago about building New England stone walls with small rocks held together with flexible material like latex.  The wall could be built in a form on the workbench and then fitted to the terrain.

I don't think the MTS wall in the photos looks bad at all, but I'm no authority whatsoever on the New England aesthetic, so may not be the best judge.

Thanks

Thanks for the suggestions. For the record, Rob, I don't think it looks bad either - just (to use a New England word) wicked static. In the end, it's certainly usable enough to get the point across, which may be all I really need anyway.

I'd have zero issues with it were I still in table top wargaming, but on the layout, placement will be a bit more of a challenge. This would, however, make a great field stone foundation for a building, just for something else to consider.

Broken plaster is an interesting idea. And I wonder if I could build it on a strip of fabric, to retain flex, or if I could just use the plaster based sections to join the MTS walls...

The problem with the 2 plate

The problem with the 2 plate method is that the casting would not follow the ground profile.

Agreed, the ground may be unlevel...

I was thinking further, and realized the plates could even be cardboard.  The plastic wrap would be the medium keeping things from gluing together.

I could try some things, but tonight, another project is in the way.  I'll see what I can do later this week.

hum, thinking about this:

Do you have access to any stone dust out your way (I know sand is easy to come by).  Stone dust is just really crushed angular rock that is often used as a base or leveling layer in outside patio construction.  Back home, we can get it in 50 LB bags from the local home center or landscaper.  Usually crushed granite - which would match the stone in your prototype pic.

As to making it flexible, I'd try the roll your own on the fiber pad method - though my initial thought was I wonder if you could cast the stuff in rubber . . . clearly I need more coffee.

I'll have to look around

I'll have to look around to see what I can get locally.

I tried tonight to cut gaps in one of the pieces to see if it would bend vertically, but the resin is brittle, and it just snapped.

Here's the spot I was thinking of using, just along the top of this short ridge, on the edge of the woods. The gap in the join I was thinking large tree....

so you can see this would probably work, but I appreciate the ideas. When I feel a bit more motivated, I'll give the plaster chunks a try as well.

I had the same ideas as

I had the same ideas as everyone above - plaster bits packed into forms and soaked with dilute glue. 

But I was thinking about building your "forms" on the layout itself - where you want your wall.  This would follow the lay of the land and when dry and the forms stripped, your wall would already be glued in place too.  I have never tried this, so it is just an idea.

What about foam?

Watching the video on carving foam rocks, it occurred to me that the bits carved away might make great rocks for things like walls.  It would certainly be cheap enough to find out.

Foam....

..... may be the way to go. You could carve the whole wall at the workbench and then glue it in place. Cover then with a thin plaster coat and paint. Being a "springy" material will have to be glued real good and hold with weights, but seems to me the best way.

Oyster shells?

Mike on the HO forum over on TrainBoard uses oyster shells for his small angular rocks (like these) http://www.supapets-online.co.uk/bird_supplements/oyster_shell_grit.htm

Sometimes he colors them, sometimes not.  Worth taking a look at.   I know bird folks use them as supplements so there is a chance you can get them locally/regionally.

He did do a tutorial on his scenery techniques where he uses this method.  I'll see if i can find it.

Steve

Resin Casting isn't that Difficult

Building it in place

building it in place is a very interesting idea. A strip of wax paper down first, and than construct the wall. Once dry, remove, paint, and replace (sans wax paper).

Now to see about the broken plaster/oyster shells.

(PS - thanks for the advice on casting; I'm not afraid of the process, just don't have the materials and I'm unsure if I can get them locally, or even if they can be shipped in).

Stone walls with cork

I think this should be a simple solution:

That's great for the top

That's great for the top edge, but what about the sides?