maddoxdy

Ok, wiring up some track. Feeder wires are 20 AWG and run about 10-12" where they connect with 14 AWG bus wire. When I wire up switches to turn on/off the block, I should continue the 14 AWG and heavy duty toggles switches? Now, when I run wires for the signaling (mostly LEDs indicating switch position) I think I can use thin 22 AWG (like telco) wire. This will be isolated from track power, just enough to drive the LEDs. Is this logical thinks or am I missing something?

 

Doug Maddox

Reading Company Along the Bethlehem Branch

 

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Terry Roberts

DC or DCC

The answer varies.  The constant part--A small size is okay for carrying led current.  Leds are 10-30mA devices unlike the multiple amps of multiple locomotives.

For DCC  Long bus runs should be a larger wire size.  Opinions vary as to the "correct" size, but 14 is in the mix.  Short runs, 6 inches or so, in panels can be smaller sizes. 

Heavy duty toggles need a little more definition.  My digitrax limits current at 5A so I use 5A switches when needed.  These are available in at least 4 different sizes with the same current specs.

For DC  the wire size does not need to be quite as big, but if DCC is even contemplated, go with the wire size for DCC so potential rewiring is eliminated.  14 is pretty big for wiring panels.  It's difficult to handle and won't fit through the holes in most miniature or subminature toggles.  A suggestion would be 14 to the panel and 18 internal.  I have used 20 in panels successfully.  Again opinions vary.

Terry

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maddoxdy

This is DC (for now)

This is a fairly short layout, about 26' end to end. I was looking at toggles like http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12708886,  10 amp one as opposed to  http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12708886 at 6 amps. I didn't was to be replacing switches down the line because I undersized them.

Doug Maddox

Reading Company Along the Bethlehem Branch

 

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JRG1951

DC Block Control

Doug.

DC wiring generally does not use bus wiring. This type of wiring does not lend itself well to controlling more than one train on the whole layout. Most larger layouts use, or should I say used, DC block control

You will find information on block controls wiring here

http://modeltrains.about.com/od/electronicsdcc/ss/Wiring-A-Model-Railroad-For-Block-Operation.htm

I would suggest that you do a cost comparison between the cost of switches, extra wiring, and DC throttles for a DC system to the cost of a DCC system. A DCC system may seem complex at first, but a functional DC block system ain't no picnic. The block system can be expensive and complex too.

If you plan on just using DC for now and then going quickly to DCC, then I have given you way too much information.

MRH is a good source for DCC information.  

A good reasonable source for switches is Jameco Electronics.  http://www.jameco.com

Oh Yea, as a rule of thumb, a device should be rated to at least 150% of expected load. Thus 5A is 7.5A

Regards

John

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Sometimes your best investments are the ones you don't make.  Donald Trump

 

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RandallG

Radio Shock ...

Doug,

I think that  a 5 amp rated switch would be sufficient for your needs. These come in miniature and sub miniature sizes.  I should point out that many of the electronic parts that Radio Shock sells, although they look exactly like,  if not identical to parts sold by major manufacturers. The problem I have found is that most of their parts are 'seconds'. They do not actually meet the standards of the original.  Perhaps it is convenient to go to RS for parts, but you may find that is cheaper to buy from an electronics wholesale rather than paying retail for any parts you might require. Shipping for small items as small as these will fit in a bubble pack envelope and should go through regular mail without problems. The money you save from the electronics wholesaler will pay for the cost of shipping plus... 

Just my experience on that. Perhaps others may chime in with their thoughts. It's not just 'you get what you pay for' , beware of clones. After all, model railroading is a long term commitment to build a nice layout. You don't need the long term maintenance contract that comes with many cheap or bargain priced items. The maintenance you want is keeping your track, rolling stock  and loco's etc. working properly.  Not the hardware!

Good luck on your pike. Post some pics as you go.

Randy

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vasouthern

Yes and maybe

Your feeders are fine, buss lines are fine. Most toggles have room for a ring or spade connector, the crimp on types are fine but I always crimp AND solder them. Barrier strips at panels help if you make changes and for troubleshooting.

For signals and LED's, you can use telephone wire or even CAT5 Lan wire which is 24 gauge. It is very low current and the variety of colors make it nice to color code things.

No matter your wiring, take your time, do it right the first time and label, make notes and color code when and where you can. You will know the blue wire is block # 4 now, but will you remember in two years? Write it down.

 

Randy McKenzie
Virginia Southern - Ho triple decker 32x38

Digitrax Zephyr, DCC++EX, JMRI, Arduino CMRI
On Facebook:   http://www.facebook.com/groups/485922974770191/

Proto freelance merger of the CRR and Interstate

Based on the north end of the Clinchfield.

 

 

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maddoxdy

Yes, I'm using terminal strips.

I know from past experience that things change and you need to plan to be able to change. In another life I was a computer analyst. I wired our building with CAT5e & telco, I've still got my crimpers & maybe 75 RJ-45 connectors left. I also have about 250' of 24 connector serial cable in the basement. I was debating if punch down blocks might be easier for me.

 

Doug Maddox

Reading Company Along the Bethlehem Branch

 

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vasouthern

Punchblocks

Ive used punchblocks for all my signal and logic wiring.

I ran 25 pair from 8 panels around the layout back to a central panel, then all the turnout controls, signals and block detector circuits route back, making it nice and neat.

Im a telcom tech so I just used up old parts and scraps......

Randy McKenzie
Virginia Southern - Ho triple decker 32x38

Digitrax Zephyr, DCC++EX, JMRI, Arduino CMRI
On Facebook:   http://www.facebook.com/groups/485922974770191/

Proto freelance merger of the CRR and Interstate

Based on the north end of the Clinchfield.

 

 

Reply 0
Terry Roberts

Toggles and spade connectors

The miniature and subminiature toggle switches are solder only.  They do NOT have room for spade lugs.  They aren't big enough--approx 0.25 "by 0.5" for a spst co toggle I have.  Most push bottons I have seen are solder only as well. 

Terry

Reply 0
Lee1234

You need dpdt (Double pole

You need dpdt (Double pole double throw) center off switches for DC two cab.  You don't need the 14 ga. wire because line loss is not really a factor in DC because DC control puts more voltage to the track than DCC.  If you buy everything new I don't think DC is going to be cheaper than DCC.  DCC is a lot easier to install.  

L
Reply 0
Terry Roberts

Double pole vs single pole and other comments

Single pole double throw center off is all one needs for two cab block control on a DC layout.  The other rail can be jumpered  together at terminal strips and connected to one side of BOTH cabs.  Are you thinking of a reversing switch?

14 gauge wire is not necessary, but because the cab is supplying current to one or two locomotives rather than a whole bunch ran by multiple throttles.  The other cabs are driving a similar load. 

DC voltage is less than DCC voltage because the voltage is across the motor only while DCC is a fixed peak voltage driving a variety of electronics, part of which puts the smaller dc voltage across the motor.

DCC wiring is probably less expensive because of the toggle switches needed--some toggles make troubleshooting DCC easier.  Note there is more to DCC than just the track wiring.  The throttle net requires multiconductor cables and connectors be installed for a walk around operation. 

The total cost of DCC including the control system is more expensive that a DC control system including the cabs. 

Terry

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Lee1234

A Tech 4 throttle is at least

A Tech 4 throttle is at least $55,  toggle switches are $4.00 so you can be up to $150 in no time.  You can by a quality DCC system for that.  The original poster was already looking at double throws and he didn't mention common rail.  So I guess I set someone off.  I won't post any more.

L
Reply 0
vasouthern

Toggles

I was referring to the large full size when using terminals.

Some of the submini toggles are only good for a few amps. Be careful soldering them.

Randy McKenzie
Virginia Southern - Ho triple decker 32x38

Digitrax Zephyr, DCC++EX, JMRI, Arduino CMRI
On Facebook:   http://www.facebook.com/groups/485922974770191/

Proto freelance merger of the CRR and Interstate

Based on the north end of the Clinchfield.

 

 

Reply 0
ChagaChooChoo

back to the original question-

I just noticed this thread, and nobody actually answered the original question....... 

My response would be that the wiring you're proposing is fine. It will be a very good installation.  It's a good idea to run the heavy wire up to a switch.  I have used many miniature switches for track power on our club layout without issue.  They're rated at 5 amps or 6 amps depending on brand.  The biggest issue is brand.  The only consistent that I have used isone is whatever it is that Miniatronics sells.  I've had failures with other sources.  All suppliers have good stuff, and almost all also have "junk".  Fill in the name of your favorite supplier here. 

If you use the heavy wire to the switch you may need to transition to a short piece of small wire in order to attach.  Remember, you're using the heavy wire for the purpose of low voltage drops.  There's nothing wrong with a 2-inch piece of small stuff at the end for joining to a miniature switch.

The heavy buss is a good idea in DC too.  For low drop in voltage. 

The 20-gage feeders at 12-inches long are also a good idea.  I ran them up to 24 inches in some cases on our club switchyard due to potential congestion if all track power was done with 14 gage, or even 12 gage.  Had I used 22 gage I would have limited it to a max of 12 inches.

And, as others have said, the LED's can use rather fine wire successfully.

I know this is a while after the original post, but just wanted to throw my hat in the ring.......

Just my 1.1 cents.  (That's 2 cents, after taxes.)

Kevin

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