Looks like fun

Looks like a neat project, Scarpia.  Are you going to try shortening the main rod and move it to the #2 driver?

Maybe you already have an idea on how to do it, but I have a suggestion for the domes.  Cut them off very carefully, so that the cut is straight and level.  Then remove a section and replace it with a piece of styrene tube just a smidge smaller than the dome.  That will give the look of the prototype domes, but still use the model's parts and save you having to make the tricky bits.

You might also consider trying to lower the boiler and cab on the frame.  The prototype seems to have a very hunkered-down look, and I suspect that removing about 6"-12" would make a huge difference visually.  Looking at the model, it may not be practical with the drivers underneath the cab, but if you can pull it off it might really enhance the overall appearance.

not a bad idea

I'd like to move the main rod, right now I'm just trying to get it running smoothly. The body's off, and I'm working on getting it to run to my satisfaction. Might just be the bachman decoder is junk.

I was thinking of just adding a band along the bottom of each, but cutting off the domes is interesting. Than again, they're all wrong anyway, so maybe they should really be cut off and replaced.

lowering it maybe beyond my skills! Heck, the main rod idea has me frightened!

look up Ken's blog on...

...his kitbashing of this very same model.  He's apparently too modest to tell you he's experimenting with the same mechanism in a separate blog here!

As an alternate to Ken's method for dome building, I had great success taking a cheap plastic drawer pull from Home Depot, cutting a section, mounting it on my power drill, which was clamped to my workbench, and with files and small chiesel blades turning new domes to the shape I wanted on my last TFRR project. 

Flush axles

I have some 2mm flush end axles and some spare 33" code 88 wheels if anyone needs them for pilots.

I don't think the prototype had pinpoint ends on theirs! .

indeed!

I have filed the points down since that photo!

Not the same as mine

Actually, I'm working on an older Bachmann, not the nice Spectrum seen here.  This is what I wanted, and hoped to have.  The difference is that my drivers are smaller, and I am having to re-engineer the mechanism.

More ideas, since I'm not the one doing the work :

-It looks like the tank on the prototype is longer than on the model, and the cab shorter.  You might be able to shorten the cab by removing the front window section, and add a corresponding section to the tank.  The easiest way would be to remove all details from the tank, cut it in half, and laminate a new skin (brass might be easiest and strongest), then replace the details with rivet decals, new domes, etc.

-Lowering the shell might be simple, or complex, depending mainly on how much room there is inside.  If there is room, all that would be required would be to remove a section from the cylinder saddle (a common modification to HOn3 MDC locos) and relocating the other mounting points.  If there is not enough room, either material has to be removed or the idea abandoned.

-Sound will be tricky.  I'm sure there is plenty of room for both a decoder (I like the looks of those new ESU micro decoders) and a speaker, but the enclosure will be the challenge.  Since the shell is styrene, I would probably use it as part of the enclosure in order to get the maximum volume, assuming there is any room at all.

-Shortening the rods could be easy, or difficult.  If it is practical to swap the middle and rear drivers (to get the longer crank pins) then you're home free.  Measure the distance between the middle and read axles, and drill a new wrist pin (little end) hole in the rods that distance from the old one.  Cut the excess lengt off, reshape the rod with a file if needed, and reassemble.

Bachmann 0-6-0

I also have one of these engines. I've found that it is extremely light and needs additional weight, though I haven't had time to figure out how to add this yet. I suspect that the weight, along with its short wheelbase is the main reason it is a tempermental runner. Mine runs smoothly on normal track once it gets going but is hit and miss over turnouts.

Good luck with the project.

Roy

Whoa big fella

Whoa there, big fella! Ken, I greatly appreciate your suggestions, but you are quickly blowing past my comfort and skill levels!

With all the changes necessary for the body to be correct, I think I may be better off building a whole new shell from scratch.  Longer boiler, moved domes, shorter cab, the entire thing lowered - this is a total overhaul.

What I'm going to suggest, and I'd like your honest feedback, is that I work towards getting it running half way decent (thanks to everyone else for their comments, I'll be shoving weight into this somehow), make some slight modifications to the existing shell (such as the coal bunker, lamps, and existing dome shape) to get into a usable stand in (in actuality, the part of the layout I want this for is still in concept stage, so we have some time).

Once that is done, I think the fabrication of a new shell to replace this one might be a good project - I can than see about building in a speaker enclosure as part of the structure, perhaps in the longer boiler space.

What do you think?

I did take a hard look at the side rods. I pulled the whole thing apart last night with some trepidation. As it turns out, the rear wheels have an extended post for the side rod; when I looked at simply swapping this out with the rear center wheel set so I could move the rod, I discovered that only the rear wheel is gear driven. Not willing to give up, I attempted to swap out the wheels, only to find different diameter axles! (#%@ you Bachmann design engineers!)

Here's the damage.

So, so much for that idea. Any reasonable suggestions?

I got it back together, to find it wouldn't run (i had over tightened the screws on the side rods) and with that resolved it's up and running. I dare say it runs a bit better, I noticed with the shell off the motor would spin under throttle, but the gears wouldn't turn until it was about at 20-25%, there is a slight improvement since it was dismantled. It does have a new lurch, so I'll need to double check my quartering. Anyone know of a good gear replacment?

I also discovered, for anyone who has one of these, that the pilot steps rub on the rails, the supports that hang below the step would catch on gaps in my trackwork. A couple of seconds with the dremel, grind those off, and you'll find it works a lot smoother through turnouts.

Good idea

I think that is an excellent idea.  It breaks the project into parts, and it does not require a new shell right off the bat.  Should you find that the stand-in is good enough for your purposes, you're done, and if not, you will still have a running engine while you work on version 2.0.

I apologize if I seem overly exuberant.  I don't mean to suggest that you must do anything I've mentioned.  I just pointed out the things that caught my eye, with some suggestions on how I might go about them.  Certainly, the last thing I want to do is turn your project into something which you don't want to or are unable to do.  With that said, I will point out that I believe it is good to push one's limits of comfort and skill, as that is how you expand them.

Kudos for tackling the drivers - most would be afraid of ruining the model.  By the way, Bachmann sells the complete driver assembly on their parts site ( http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_68_162&products_id=1034) so you can work with the knowledge that a replacement is easy to get.  Two things occur to me on the driver issue.  One is that the axles themselves look the same, it's just the shoulders that are different.  If that's the case, it might be possible to move the gear to a different axle.  The other is that it might be simpler to make new, longer crank pins.  I have successfully used brass screws (usually 00-90 or 0-80) and brass or copper tubing in the past.  Of course, the whole thing may be completely impractical - sometimes it is.

Check out Northwest Short Line for replacement gears.  I have had good results with them in the past, including having custom HOn3 wheelsets made up for reasonable prices.

Drivers

Could those those wheels from the back be swapped with the center wheels and not touch the gear. In other words just swap the drive wheels but not the axles. Usually if you move the gear it won't be as accurate or as tight as if you leave it on the original axle. As far as the rods are concerned do they really need to be on the geared axle? Just wondering.

Swapping Wheels

I actually tried swapping wheels; if you look at the picture I've posted above, it shows them off the axles. It wasn't the axle shoulder that was different sized, but the entire axle shaft.

Now I have neither or your experiences with steam drive trains, so I was hoping that would be an easy adjustment. Same with the gears, I just have no idea where to start, so I think I'll leave it alone for now.

Ken, thanks for reminding me about the Bachmann site. It looks like the entire model is available piece meal; I may look at picking up a couple of parts (like the boiler) as a base for re-skinning when I do the new body.

My other loco projects are on hold while some electronics orders are processed and shipped, so I'm going to try and continue to get the drive train running smoothly.

I must say, I'm thoroughly

I must say, I'm thoroughly disappointed with the running characteristics of this model. The pick up is just horrible; tons of slop in the gears, etc.  I'm not interested in making this happen if the model won't run properly.

I'm now sitting on the fence between scrapping the project, and simply gutting it to see if I can get it to work well.  As a result, I'm walking away from it for a day or two.

Pickups don't seem to be the best

I agree, my 0-6-0 seems to have problems with the pickups when going around curves. I've tried bending them out but I think that there's more side-to-side play in the axles than there is spring in the pickups; I believe the axles just outrun the pickups. I really like the look of the engine but I'm not sure if the best way forward is to reduce the play in the axles (as best I can, I'm imagining adding some styrene sheet to cut down on the range of motion) or adding additional, more springy pickups. 

Karl

PS I really like the project! I've thought about adding leading and trailing trucks to make it similar to logging and mining tank engines that ran on Vancouver Island. Hopefully yours works out.

Some possible solutions

There's not much that can be done about the slop in the gears, other than rebuilding the entire drive.  As for the pickup, is the problem at the wheel-rail interface, or wheel-wiper?  If the former, again there is little to do, as it is the nature of an 0-6-0 with a rigid frame.  If the latter, you can try tweaking the wipers to make better, more consistent contact, or you can supplement them with additional wipers made of wire.  While this is for a 4-6-0, this photo might give you some idea what I have done to supplement electrical pickup:

Multiple contact points are more likely to be reliable.  You could also add small unobtrusive wipers directly on the rails, but that can be problematic for a number of reasons, and I would only suggest it as a last resort.

If you really want to get aggressive, you could modify the chassis to improve the wheel to rail contact.  since the model appears to have articulated side rods, it would be practical, albeit a bit challenging.  The simplest method I am aware of is to leave the geared axle rigidly mounted, allow the front axle to drop (by removing material from the cover plate and adding a light spring), and allow the middle axle to both rise and fall (by removing material from both the cover plate and axle slot, and adding a spring just light enough to hold the wheel down in normal operation).  The result should be a model which keeps all 6 wheels on the rail at all times, meaning better electrical contact and hopefully better tracking as well.  Of course, as I mentioned earlier it is not a simple job, and it does require modifications that, done wrong, can pretty much trash a frame.  I would not go as far as suggesting that you should do it, but I will at least mention that it is possible if you are so inclined.

One last suggestion, more or less along the lines of "what have you got to lose?" would be to apply a little no-ox to the wheels and wipers.  Even if you keep it off the treads, it might be a good way to improve contact between the wheels and wipers.

It's not wheel rail

It's not wheel rail contact, but wiper wheel. As Karl mentions, there is a ton of slop (side to side) in the wheels, and even on straight, level track, reversing direction will be enough jerk to disconnect the pickups.

Shims on the frame, or extra brass spacers on the axles? Both are a possibility.

Probably fixable

Side play we can deal with!  I'm not 100% sure (not being familiar with this particular model) where you would put the brass spacers, but anything which reduces side play would be beneficial.  You can also carefully bend the wipers out (assuming they are "fingers" as on my 4-6-0) to increase the spring tension against the wheel, but that will only go so far.  For an 0-6-0 like this, the front and rear drivers do not need any side play at all, and the middle only enough to negotiate your tightest radius curve.  You may find that no side play is needed there either, but a little might be helpful.

I would try making false frames in styrene for both added visual impact and to reduce the side play in the drivers.  I think the problem can be fixed, good sir.

Today's Frustrations

Today's frustrations continued.

I started by cutting some side shims from black styrene to correct the side to side play.

Did they help? With the side play, yup. With the running and pick up, nope.  The thought occurred to me though - why not just use more metal, like a longer bronze phosphorus piece, soldered across all pickups on one side.  Now to find that piece I had lying around.

In the meantime, I just tore it apart. The decoder and electronics are now gone.

I just don't trust the on board bachmann stuff.  Next up is to wire in a temporary decoder, and see if I can get it running again.

Returning to the project

With some other projects finished or on hold, awaiting parts, I came back to this one.

I actually was able to re-mount the wheels so the taller post is on the center wheel; I'm not sure what my issue was previously, but I did get those sorted out. Now the mechanism is binding though even with the motor removed; I need to sort that out and figure out the shorter side rod.

I also think I fixed the pick up issue by doubling the current feeders back on themselves, improving the pressure on the wheel.  That at least tests out ok.

Apparently I had the whole wire set up wrong. There were two wires coming from the back of the loco that I assumed (based on color) were motor feeds. But, they're not. I apparently ripped out those from the motor itself when I removed the electronics. So now I'm not sure how to get the motor running, as it's an odd little duck, or, should I just purchase a new one from Bachmann, or a new one from Northwest (#1627S-9 ) and just totally remoter it.

Either way, this is going to take a lot longer than planned....

Running the motor

From the last picture you posted the motor setup looks identical to the one used in the B'mann 50 tonner diesel On30 model. I'd say it is save to use a 0 to 12 volt power supply. Lacking that you could use a 9 volt battery. Just hold the two wires on the battery terminals. Although a variable 12 volt supply would be better since you can vary the voltage and watch what happens as the motor revolves.

When putting the wheels back on try each set of wheels independently to see if one of them binds. Then add a set of rods until you have the whole drive train back together again, if you haven't done that already. Process of elimination.

Bernd

Those are good tips for the

Those are good tips for the drive train, I'll try that. Per the motor, I didn't explain the issue well. When I pulled off the electronics, I yanked what was apparently the contacts (small brass ones) up near the gear shaft (I have one, but one went flying).

I was mistakenly presuming the other wires I found were the motor leads, and this was nothing more than a compact way to mount the electronics. So...now I don't have any way to get power to the motor itself.

Motor leads

Ok, just tore my engine apart to take a closer look at the drive. It's almost identical. Looks like the same set up with the circuit board. I see you cut off the two capacitors.

Here's what I would do, and I see you have the motor installed already without the circuit board. I'd solder a couple of wires onto the brushes where the capacitors were solder to and then hook it up to a power supply. I think that should work for you while you look for that bind.

Good luck and if you have any questions don't hesitate to ask.

Bernd

Wire or brush?

Did you remove the brushes and all, or just the contacts?  If you pulled and lost the brushes, the motor is toast.  I suppose you could find a replacement brush, but a replacement motor is just as easy and cheap.

I have a similar quartering issue coming up.  My 2-6-0 project has at least one axle out of quarter, so we'll be tackling the same problem.

I think it's toast

I think it's toast. I'll take a picture this evening.

Brushes

Ken,

If Scarpia pulled on those caps without un-soldering them then I think your correct in your assessment of pulling out the brushes and the motor being toast.

Hard to tell form the picture but it does look like he might have pulled out the brush. I don't see any brass on the side off the motor, unless it's hidden.

Guess we'll get an answer when reads this.

Bernd