More in your friend's camp

I've always been hesitant with anything Bachmann, honestly, but at a train show a couple years ago, a guy was trying to sell me one of their HO locos (even though I told him I modeled N, but I digress...).  He demonstrated it and it did run pretty smoothly, and at a $50ish price tag, you could definitely get started for cheap.  He talked it up quite a bit that they were way better than they were, so I might have purchased one if I was in the market for one or trying to get a kid interested in the hobby.

Bachmann vs. Athearn

For an interesting comparison, I have both a Bachmann F7 (a safety incentive from NS) and an Athearn RTR superpower F7 (a gift from my wife's aunt), and I have installed DCC decoders in each.  My impression is that the Bachmann runs a little quieter, but not silently.  The Athearn seems to have a lot of motor noise, the Bachmann more gear noise.  The Athearn has a LOT more mass and momentum (almost too much), from both the extra weights and the dual flywheels.  In the looks department, they're about even, though the Bachmann may have a slightly more accurate roof profile.  They do not run together well (though I've done it without issue), though it should be possible to tweak that with the decoders.

My prejudice based on old models makes me suspect that the Athearn is a better quality model, but if I just saw them on a layout and didn't know anything about them I would probably take the Bachmann.  The one thing it definitely needs is more weight.  Having had an F7 and a GP40 apart (and hopefully I'll have an SD40 by the end of the year) I have to say I've been pleasantly surprised by the quality.  They are worlds apart form the Bachmann of the '70s and '80s.

When I was in N scale...

I would not touch any of the standard line Bachmann locos, only Spectrum. However, some of my N scale friends are telling me now that the standard line offerings have improved of late.

When I switched to HO, I Iooked at  a lot of the Bachmann locos, Spectrum and standard line, and finally settled on a standard line Mogul with DCC and Soundtraxx "value line" sound.  I have to say that I love this Mogul. The detail is not as good as a Spectrum of course but the engine seems to run very smoothly  in the testing I've done with DC.  Even with the limited sound available in DC mode I think I have a winner. I am between DCC systems at the moment but can't wait to get my new one to see how well this baby really will do. The price was right too. It started at 109.95 at Micro Mark but I let them choose the road name so I saved 10 bucks there. On top of that I added a ten percent off coupon from there catalog and ended up with a good running sound and DCC equipped loco for 89.95! Cannot beat that! I hope they are going to release some Connies with this sound/DCC package.

Michael

Seem to be better than they were years ago

I picked up a Bachmann F-7 for $25 a year or so ago to repaint in Seattle and North Coast colors.  When I was in HO years ago, Bachmann was not one of the better performers; I always bought Athearn if I could.  I have only run this new Bachmann locomotive on a few stretches of flex track, but was pleasantly surprised at the performance.  It seems quiet, smooth, and runs well at very low speed (with very little break in).  For $25, I can't picture a better deal.   Since then I have acquired a small fleet of freight cars, mostly Bachmann, and they seem well proportioned and seem to run fairly smoothly, though they truthfully could benefit from new trucks.  Even so, I consider them a good deal, because they were marked down to a steep discount (five to ten dollars each), which is significantly under retail.

Roger

Bachmann locos

I have 4 Bachmann RF16A Sharknoses. They are nicely painted (2 in B&O, 2 in PRR) and detailed. They are fair runners, especially if you add a little weight to them as they are somewhat on the light side right out of the box.

They have OnBoard DCC that works okay with my Digitrax Zephyr. They are not noisy at all, but not silent either.

For a price, well under $100 they are a bargain!

I also have 4 Bachmann E-33 Electric Locomotives. Though these locos are a tad noisier than the Sharks, the detailing is absolutely gorgeous! They don't come with a DCC decoder, however they do have the required DCC plug - and a switch to operate off of overhead wire, if that is your thing!

No extra weight was necessary to make these locos good pullers.

Again, with a price tag for each being under the century mark, these beasts are well worth the price.

This is just my experience - your mileage may vary!

George

I model mostly steam and the

I model mostly N scale steam and the newer B-mann engines are way better than the old ones.  The 4-6-0 and the 2-8-0 are as good as anything anyone but Kato makes.  The 4-8-2 Heavy is a beautiful and fine running locomotive, but a little disappointing in pulling power, it's not horrible about 17 cars up a 1% slope.  The 2-10-2 is just a great locomotive.  It won't out pull the Con-Cor 2-10-2 but it will pull over 20 cars up a 1% slope and it runs better than the Con-Cor.  I sent them back a 20 year old 4-8-4 along with a check for $15.00.  The sent me back a new 4-8-4.  The old one always looked good but wouldn't run smoothly below 50 scale mph.  The new one is way better, great slow speed and almost silent.  A little disappointing in the pulling department, about 15 cars up a 1% slope.  The J class 4-8-4 runs perfect and will out pull anything except the Kato GS-4.  They make great engines, but still seem to have some difficulty with quality control.  I've sent back about one in every five engines I've purchased from B-mann due to problems.  They always send you a new engine at no cost if you purchased it within one year.  For this reason I don't buy used B-mann engines.  I want the warranty.  N scale steam would be a much lonelier place where it not for B-mann.

I also purchase their rolling stock.  It looks good but does not roll very well.  I replace the trucks with MT's and the wheels with FVM metal wheels.  I figure this cost me about $6.00 per car so I have to get their rolling stock cheap to make it worthwhile. 

If you haven't purchased a B-mann in a long time you need to try one of their new engines, they are great.  Have fun, Mark.

Don't hesitate...

Who do you think has been building Athearn and atlas locomotives for the last couple years??

Blackstone is made by Bachmann.  That should tell you a little about what Bachmann has become.

You cannot get better than the HO Alco 2-6-0.  Take note, it is not a Spectrum model, it is in the Standard line.  You're looking at the top sound decoder name under the hood, at a price that should make everyone look twice.  If it doesn't make you look twice I cannot fix what you have!!!

I have worked on steam locomotives from Mantua, Bowser, Rivarossi/IHC, Mehano, Tyco, MDC/Roundhouse, Varney, English, Fleischmann, a couple I want to forget [like the walthers proto 0-6-0!!]...I am at this point biased towards working with bachmann mechanisms.  They are a pleasure to work with at a price you and I can afford to chop the whole thing up for kitbashing purposes.  For what the parts cost to repair my Proto 0-6-0, I can buy a whole locomotive from Bachmann...And even after repair, that proto was still not up to snuff! 

If you have the machine shop to mill around on the frames [and make them longer/shorter] then you should check out bachmann!!  Starting out, they will get you going on DCC in HO for $150, that includes track, a decodered engine and a watered down DCC set.  If Bachmann were to announce a GUI throttle based DCC set here in the near future that included an industry compliant command station and compatible power boosters, I would be E-STA-TIC.

Those are my words on the subject...I broke my teeth on Bachmann getting into this hobby, all you need for a kid who is a future diehard train addict is a train in hand, it doesn't have to run but if it runs, it doesn't even have to run that well.  I still think my old GP-40 UP 866 is just about one of the best gifts I've ever recieved!!

I love Bachmann steam

I have become a big fan of Bachmann steam locos.  Even the most basic 0-6-0 has a decent can motor and beautiful drivers.  I haven't seen any issues with the wheels falling off, as happened to the older models.  And of course the Spectrum line is one of the best in the market at the moment.  I have two ten wheelers and a consolidation, and I am very impressed.  I'd buy more if I could afford them - I need two more ten wheelers to round out my D&W roster.

What I find odd about Bachmann is that, for as good as their models are, their wiring and electronics are well known to be troublesome at best.  I have not had a single Bachmann engine which had the correct color wiring on the motor (they all run backwards), and most people - myself included - rip the circuit boards out of the tenders rather than trying to use the sockets.  To top it off, the connectors between engine and tender are frustrating to use, and the wires on my ten wheelers hang so low that they pick turnouts.

So my overall impression is that I would definitely recommend a diesel to a beginner, but I would hold off on the steam until someone has enough skill to open the model and relocate or replace the wiring.  And it sounds like that's a common opinion here?

Reliability is critical for a beginner

I'm afraid I'm going to disagree with you here, Benny.  While a poorly running model may be fine for you and I, since we have the skill and patience to repair it, as a toy (and possibly the only loco on a layout) it would be extremely frustrating.  I feel that a child's first model needs to be robust and reliable.  If it breaks, they're likely to just throw it away or put it down and move on to something less annoying.  That's what I always hated about the Bachmann, Life-Like, and Tyco train sets that I lusted after as a kid.  They were so tempting, and they were many people's first (and last) experience with model railroading, but they were so bad that many moved on to other things.  I was fortunate in having started with Lionel trains, and buying a tolerable set as a young teen.  That AHM SD40 was not too good put next to an Athearn, but it beat the pants off of the stuff in the toy stores.

That's why I'm asking this question.  I want to know if the Bachmann engines are good enough to be a kid's first train, and to keep them interested without constantly breaking down, derailing, or otherwise losing their play value.  I don't play with mine enough to assess their durability.

Bachmann trains

Bachmann has improved a lot. I have the steamers with onboard Tsunami.

They have a new line with Tsunami onboard. A massive 2-8-8-4 is quite a loco. There is also a sound value line.

To bad they have not come onboard with MRH.

Go look at the Bachmann site. There are a couple Bachmann reps there and there are loco diagrams.

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php

There are still a lot of old timers who are behind the times and remember how bad Bachmann products use to be.

I have posted the MRH link there a few times for the members and suggested this eZine. Some like MRH but easily forget about this site.

Rich

think I would recommend a diesel for the first train.

Depending on the age of the child, for a first train set I would recommend a diesel over a steam engine.  I have an A-B-B-A set of Bachmann + F-7s that run great even though they are probably 20 years old.  For younger members who may not have heard of the Bachmann + line, it was an intermediate line that combined the mechanism of the Spectrum series with the less detailed standard train set bodies.  I think the standard Bachmann line was discontinued, and the Bachmann + line became the standard train set line.

The reason that I would advise the first set be diesel rather than steam is that even though the Bachmann steam engines are well designed now, the valve gear and side rods still make them delicate if mishandled by children.  If the child is old enough to learn to handle the locomotive correctly so that side rods are not bent or damaged, then a Bachmann steam engine is viable. 

I would recommend that regardless if buying steam or diesel, that if you are giving it as a gift that you run it on your layout first before giving the gift to make sure it runs well.  Bachmann still has some quality control issues that will generally show up as soon as it is taken out of the box or very shortly thereafter.  By doing a test run before giving the model, you can ascertain whether to give it or send it back for a replacement model.   

Bachmann

Right now, you can get two different diesels with on board Tsunami sound for around $120.00.

A small steamer with on board Tsunami sound for about the same price.

Maybe a little less depending on how well you know how to shop on line. I can hear it now, lazy and will not go to the LHS and support them.

They run on DC and DCC, but better on DCC.

Yes, there are occasional quality issues but Bachmann has a good replacement policy if the seller cannot help you.

Rich

Bachmann

Bachman coming on board at MRH!

"Bachmann approached us in Grand Rapids, wanting to come onboard"

That should be very good news for MRH  and Bachmann!  (What's the current readership?  A lot of exposure for Bachmann products, in any case!)

Rog

To each their own...

I don't see why.  I prefer the Bachmann electronics, the tender board, and especially the connectors.  It's a slick little package.  To disconnect the connectors, you use a jeweler's screwdriver as a prybar, and catch the lip of the plug and gently pry up.  They come out without issue.  If you pull on the wires, yes, they rip out, and if you mishandle them, they come undone.

I like the electronics enough I've bought the boards right from Bachmann.  It's expensive, but they're a drop in for anything I need.  Anybody, if you're taking them out of tenders, I only ask that you carefully undo the two screws that hold the connector to the tender floor, remove the screws that hold the board to the floor, put all four mounting screws and the board in a ziplock bag, and get my address via PM.  Or you can chop the posts and brackets out, keeping the screws attached to the pieces; the screws are the hardest parts to replace!  I can always use the sockets on the engine side too, so if you're taking them out, carefully disassemble the locomotive, leave about a half inch of wire attached where you clip them off, and, throw them in the bag too!

Rule number one in all electronics is to never assume the wire colors are accurante!

You're looking at a guy who broke his teeth on a 1988 trainset, the very kid all the 'experts' say runs people off form this hobby.  You can take the train addict away from the trains, but you can't take the trains out of the train addict.  All these concepts the old people talk about [quietness, slow speed operation, pilot appearance] had absolutely no value to me when I was 8, or 10, or 12...barely when I was 20.

Your hypothesis is true when it comes to the runners - the kind like the slot car runners, the people who can't understand that the process of building it is as important as making it go.

When we first set up my set, My dad exhibited behavior that cleared suggested he was a "robust lionel" type.  He grabbed the cars and roughly "Clunk-Clunk, clunk-clunked" them on the track by roughly running them back and forth over the rails until they were railed.  I saw he was doing it wrong, because despite his efforts, they were NOT going on t he tracks.  I then showed him how to put each truck on the rails by carefully lifting up each truck.  He got fed up, frustrated and left. it wouldn't have matter if it had been good HO, no amount of good HO would have worked with my dad, he's too coarse.  Me, it's been Bachmann HO from the very beginning, everything worked just fine along with it.  I loved the quiet whine of the Bachmann prime mover, the growl of the Tyco U-25B prime mover, and the roar of the Tyco C-636 prime mover - they didn't need Sound cards or speakers.

Bachmann siderods are robust enough to handle being dropped.  They don't bend anywhere like someother brands, and they're not fragile like Proto.  I would full heartedly recommend even a Spectrum 2-8-0 or the Alco 2-6-0 to a kid, along with the old 0-6-0 and 0-6-0T, If that is what the kid wants to run [steam].  I've been a steamhead since I started, I only tolerated the diesels because I couldn't afford steam!  The bachman diesel was $12.95 [and WELL worth it!!] in the catalog, steam started at a bit more, so you see, there wasn't much choice for me back then!!

Current monthly audience

Readship and Hijacking the Topic

Joe,

Great news on the growth of the publication, it is great to be a part of the new paradigm.  Glad to hear Bachmann is coming on board.  Their Spectrum ten wheelers are great little Baldwin models and are working wonderfully on my layout.

Connie

With all the forums I belong to, I find the HO Connie is a very popular loco.

I leaned many years ago on how to use a multimeter so never have any issues with wring.

And, never, ever assume with DCC for any manufacturer.

Rich

Bachmann GP30 drive... running great since 1989

I put together this locomotive, CP Rail GP35 #5006, using a Bachmann-Spectrum GP30 drive (from their very first release of Spectrum GP30's) with a Rail Power Products shell. (The frame and truck spacing is the same between a GP30 and a GP35.) The Kato GP35 model did not exist yet, so at the time this was the only easy way to get a scale-width body GP35. The only other model available at that time was the wide-body Athearn blue-box thing.

This locomotive is still in regular operation today. It has participated in every operating session at the WRMRC club over three different layouts for 23 years now. Aside from having to swap out the trucks two years ago (from a new Bachmann GP35 I got for $25 from a hobby shop liquidation sale) due to the nickel-silver tread wearing through to the copper alloy underneath; this locomotive has been running all this time with no maintenance other than additional lubrication and wheel-cleaning.

At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if this unit keeps running another 20 years.

It's definitely noisier that the newer Kato, Atlas, Intermountain, and Proto-2000 locomotives released since 1989, but it runs smooth and slow and it's obviously proven to be reliable.

For someone just starting out in the hobby I would whole-heartedly recommend Bachmann locomotives, regular line or Spectrum. Maybe not the best detail on the market, or smoothest running ...but they definitely have well built drives.

Bachman

I can't say that I am overjoyed about Bachman in general. Back when I first got into N-Scale I had few Bachman GP-40s. Back then they ran well but they didn't when I came back in 2008. All those GP-40s needed alot of work and they have now been put out to pasture as it isn't worth the cost to get them running again let alone convert them to DCC. They hadn't been run for 21 years so I did expect problems from not being oiled but I didn't expect them to die.

I do remember having some Bachman stuff in HO but those have been gone due to me selling it off on eBay. back in the early 2000s. They ran. I know this because my customers let me know that and I told them they would probably need to service them. So there is a difference between Bachman N-scale stuff and Bachman HO.

If Bachman N-Scale stuff is that great now I need to see it to believe it.

Irv

Oops...

Forgot to mention the scale. My positive comments regarding durability are for Bachmann's HO locomotives produced since the 1990's. I have no idea what their N-scale drives are like, past or present.

On my 4th HO 44tonner

Well, I have three 44tonners with dual motors and even the replacement trucks now have split axle gears. They ran okay until the split disabled the motive power to the axles.  I have since bought a new version from Micromark with the single motor and DCC fitted and it runs, but has two issues...

 It sounds like a Tasmanian Devil.

No matter how many times I disable momentum, next time I fire up the layout, it's got this very annoying throttle response delay. My layout is a city switching thing of about 3m x 3m L shape using a MRC Prod2 squared,which incidently runs very well I might add.(also ex Micromark) so the momentum delay is frustrating. I'll take it to my club soon and see if we can't fix it on the PC there.

I will be buying another 44 tonner to fit under my old MDC boxcab just the same.Don't bother chipping out an old twin motor unit if you have a choice. I have the patience of allah,but after messing about with those other 3 duds, I'll pay for a new unit and be done with it.

Bachmann small diesels

When my two motor 44 ton cracked a gear, I pulled the DZ125 decoder sent the loco to Bachmann and they sent me a single motor, 44 ton.

Two single motor 44 tonners now have a LokSound Micro decoder which come with chips on the decoder. lol.

Speakers are 16mm x 35mm with home made baffle.

Spectrum 70 ton, LokSound Micro decoder and same speaker.

Both great little loco's.

Rich

I am finding Bachmann is NOT for serious modelers

Speaking from past actual experience:

I used to admire, respect and envy having a Bachmann, that is until i realized that you enjoy taking advantage of beginners and model NONEXISTENT prototypes, such as the Southern Railway, engine number 721. Southern NEVER even had a number 721, and the Engine nor decoration is even similar to anything that exist!! I have removed you from my LIKED list and try to warn EVERY SERIOUS MODELER to STAY AWAY from Bachmann. BTW, if you like Bachmann, wanna by an engine 721 that was bought by a sucker? One of the more serious modeling I was chatting with suggest I call them Barfmanns instead. LOL