Thoughts

I wouldn't be too concerned.  Symbols vary greatly between roads and eras.  If there's one particular road you like and want to emulate, there are fan forums and other sites where you can find the necessary info on what symbol means what.  If you're freelancing, decide what names make sense to you.

I'm modeling the WP in the late 70s-early 80s, when their train symbols really didn't signify much, and basically stood for train names that had no connection to start or end points, or what work was done (like WPX [Western Pacific eXpedited] or CMS [California Merchandise Special]).  Other roads had or have more rigid systems that could tell you exactly what the train was and where it ran, its priority, and even the day of the year when it originated.

An ABS system will be as much cost and effort to install as CTC,and note that under ABS signals do not confer authority to occupy a track, so an additional form of authority would be used for train movements.  If you're modeling from the early 80s until now, you could use track warrants for authority with or without signals.

Symbols and Signals

Some railroads used alphabetic symbols based on origin/destination, and many others simply used numeric symbols based off their old schedule numbers (under TimeTable operation, all regularly scheduled trains had a number. They may also have an identifying symbol that may or may not be the same).

So you could go with the letter symbols, or numbers.

Letter symbols that are based on origin/destination usually use a 2-character code for each station. For example New London might be NL, Plainville might be PL or PV. The important thing is that every place's code is unique.

The train from NL to PL would be NLPL and it's counterpart would be PLNL.

The numeric alternative means you assign numbers to each train. Train numbers/symbols are odd or even based on direction (odd numbers north or west, even numbers south or east.) You can number mainline and local trains into different ranges to easily identify them. (For example, on CN, 100s are priority intermodal, 200s are priority automotive, 300s are long-distance inter-division through freights, 400s are through freights that operate within a division, and 500s are locals, transfers and turn jobs. 700s, 800s, and 900s are unit trains of various descriptions.)

One thing I've noticed on a few shortlines here in Ontario is that they often continue using train numbers/symbols of the trains that used to operate over the line when it was still owned by the Class I. If your railroad represents a line spun off from a Class I in the area, you might want to figure out what that railroad's general practice was, as copying that will lend a touch of historical authenticity. If your railroad represents an old shortline/regional that has always been independent, then you can determine your own system, but it'll likely just use old schedule numbers (that will probably be low-numbered, counting up from 1 but allowing for some changes and renumbering over the years. Huron Central's primary freights are numbered 911/912, continuing a nearly 100-year old CP symbol.)

Unless it's a shortline with a LOT of traffic, it's probably unlikely that CTC has ever been considered here. 

Modern shortlines basically have one of two possible histories: an independent line that has somehow managed to survive without being swallowed up, or a minor secondary route of a Class I that the large railroad didn't want anymore and a shortline operator picked it up. In either of these scenarios, expensive signal installations are unlikely, unless the line was once a major route of a major class I, but do to mergers, consolidations or falling traffic levels is no longer really a going concern. In this case, there might be an existing signal system, but expensive signal components are sometimes salvaged and reused elsewhere.

Note that CTC provides full control and movement authority and the dispatcher has direct control of important switches and signals (control points). ABS provides NO movement authority, and no remote control of any switches or signals, everything is fully automatic. ABS must have another system overlaid (like timetable/train orders, track warrants, etc.) to provide the actual movement authority. ABS is simply a safety overlay that show block occupancy and relieves trains from having to provide rear-end protection.

An ABS system will be as much

Well, just about. You have the same amount of physical blocks and signals, but [some of] the logic is a bit simpler since you don't have to worry about setting and clearing routes (and protecting against setting conflicting routes.) If you're computer controlling it, there'll be no difference in cost, but some difference in effort to set up. ABS also doesn't have the cost or effort of requiring a control panel (physical (extra $$ and effort) or on the computer screen (no extra $$, just effort)). ABS will probably be easier to accomplish with a non computer interfaced solution than CTC.

Train Numbers/Symbols

Just as another real-life "for example", are the train numbers for the road I'm modelling, the Algoma Central, circa 1980.

(The main line consists of two subdivisions, and a branchline is a third subdivision. All three meet in the middle at a place called Hawk Junction.)

1 and 2 are the passenger trains providing end to end service on the mainline.

3 and 4 are a tourist passenger train, the Agawa Canyon Tour train which operates on a portion of the south part of the line.

9, 10, 11 and 12 are south end freights.

5 and 6 are north end freights.

Ore trains on the branchline ran as unnumbered and unsymboled extras.

Plus an unnumbered turn job for the CP interchange at Franz and as-required extra freights on the south end.

My eventual plans are to hopefully model the branchline and north end of the line, so I should end up running everything except 3 and 4.

Signals and Train Symbols on a Shortline

Around me I have the Rochester Southern; Livonia, Avon & Lakeville; and Western NY & PA.  All operate as black territory and use warrants for train movements (usually just a single train running at any time).  Can catch the R&S on the scanner and they just use the lead engine #.  You can find further info on these RR's on the internet.  Might also want to check Don Irace's Providence & Worcester RR ( http://www.trainweb.org/pwmrr/) for some ideas.

David

another numbering scheme

Ontario Northland has (had) terminals at North Bay, Englehart, Timmins, Cochrane, and Rouyn.  And Moosonee.  The first digit of a train number indicated its originating terminal:

107, 187 - freight and psgr northbound out of North Bay (psgrs were all x8x)

208, 288 - corresponding southbounds from Englehart

207, 308 - freight north out of Englehart, returning south out of Timmins

424, 488 - freight and psgr south from Cochrane

512, 584 - from Rouyn

421, 622 - mixed train between Cochrane and Moosonee

ONR fans take note: trains and train numbers changed now and then, so 424 became 414, etc.  The above corresponds to summer 1974 when I started as an opr.

David

Many Thanks

Looks like I'm pretty much right on with my naming conventions, based on what you've all said so far. Funny you mentioned Don Irace's layout - it was part of my initial inspiration to model a "home grown" New England road (aside from being a born-and-raised New Englander, myself).  Right now (and subject to change, I'm sure)  I'm following an abbreviated town naming convention for many of my trains.  I've seen the odd/even numbering used before to designate north-west/south-east and really like the idea.  All trains follow this convention, for example:

Local HCA-2 runs out of Hannah Yard and switches Clark Ave Siding for the Firestone Building Products plant (eastbound) 

All turns and transfers utilize origination/destination abbreviations like:

HYWP is the Hannah Yard (Plainville) - Winthrop Park (New London) turn with corresponding WPHY for the return route

HS1 is the Hannah Yard Switcher which works in two shifts (morning/afternoon) classifying the yard and switching all local industries (probably the busiest job on the entire railroad)

All extras use the first initial of the origination/destination yard plus "X" plus the number 1 or 2 depicting north-west/south-east direction.

So HTX2 is an eastbound extra out of Plainville to Norwich (Talman Street Yard)

There are many more which I left out for now.  As I finalize my train list (and can look at it without feeling like I let a child make up the names for me) I'll post an exhaustive list.

The more I think about signaling, the more I realize it'll be a pain to do anything "fancy".  The entire upper level will be black territory but I still may put a few signals on the lower level to protect the many sidings , especially near the helix entrance.

Thanks for the input guys!  Looking forward to more!

-Johnny

Train symbols

I'll share my train symbol system, feel free to adopt or adapt it as you see fit.  It's loosely based on Wisconsin & Southern's former symbol system, along with Union Pacific's, with inspiration from other railroads'.

The first letter of my train symbols denotes the type of train, from letters P through Y:
P = Passenger Train (could also be used for an uber-high-priority train)
Q = "Quality" freight (high-priority freight, or could be used as a secondary passenger train)
R = Road freight, runs continuously from one terminal to another
S = Set-out freight, makes pick-ups and set-outs en route from its end points (this would also be used for a local that starts at one yard and terminates at another yard)
T = Turn, goes from its originating terminal to an end point, then returns to its original terminal (generally, a local that returns to its origin after serving its "destination")
U = Unit train
V = Empty unit train
W = Light power move (Without the train)
X = Extra
Y = Yard job

The second and third letters of the train symbol denote the originating and destination terminals, respectively.  In the case of the yard job, the third character would be a number denoting the shift (e.g. YB2 for a second shift yard job at whatever "B" stands for).  These terminals are assigned to letters A-O, and Z is used to denote any origin or destination that is off-line, unknown, or not otherwise assigned to A-O.

If you haven't set up any terminals yet, but are still running trains, you'd run them all as extras from unknown location to unknown location: XZZ...

There are a couple of ways to use the terminal designation system: 1. If your railroad runs generally in a straight line, with minimal branches, you could designate your terminals from A to O in the order in which they geographically appear; in your example, Plainville would be A and New London, O, or vice-versa.  (Some might carry this even further and name their stations/terminals/yards according to the "initial".)  2. Assign the terminal designations according to the place name.  In your example, New London would likely be "N", but could also be "L" if you prefer Talman Street Yard to be "N" for "Norwich".  Plainville would be a bit of a challenge, since "P" is a train type designation; "E" might be a possibility, as would "A" or even "I".  Alternately, you could deviate somewhat from my system and use "P" for both Plainville and "P"assenger type trains.

Finally, if any of your trains spend more than one day on the road, or if you just want to differentiate trains from different days, you'll want to use the day's date for the last two digits of your train symbol.  As an example from my "DM Rail Group", today's Road Freight from Greendale (which is actually in Franklin, following railroad tradition of naming facilities in spite of their actual geographic location) to Chicago (not actually in Chicago, see above), would be RGC01.

Just for another example, the local from Greendale to Union Grove operates as a turn.  Since I don't use U for a terminal code, and Greendale already takes the G, I've designated it as K since it's on the branch to Kansasville.  Yesterday's train would have been the TGK30.

Since you asked about signals as well, I might as well agree with what has already been said: Short lines and small regionals generally won't have, or at most, won't continue to use, a signal system.  While it certainly might be "neat", you may well find that any efforts put towards such a system may well be directed elsewhere.  A simpler track warrant system would be sufficient.

\ Fuzzy /
-••----••-

DM Rail Group: Milwaukee Franklin & Norway • Paris Coal Railway • St. Louis Northern • South Fork
 

Great Stuff!!!

Thanks, Fuzzy, for the insight on your naming system - I can easily adapt this to fit my shortline!

Since my initial posting I have rearranged the lower level, or "southeastern" leg, of my railroad to fit a newly-defined track agreement with the Providence & Worcester over their Willimantic Line which forced a few key locations to be renamed. 

I am, at present, attempting to follow two distinct prototype train operations.  The first being the PW where a weekly/daily transfer runs between the major terminals and a handful of locals to carry out all switching duties. Seasonal trains run stone to and from various destinations (I will have a quarry on the final layout) and the occasional coal drag complete the train list.

The second is the Georgia Central which is slightly better suited for my purposes. Two trains operate in opposite directions from their respective terminals which lie at the extreme end of the southern shortline.  These trains work the trailing point industries along the way and, upon meeting somewhere near the middle of the line, the crews swap trains and return to their home yard, working the skipped facing point - which are now trailing point - industries on the way. 

There are several benefits to the latter prototype operation: for one, there are only a few trains to maintain (a yard job is included as well), perfect for 1 - 3 operators, which is what I'm aiming for. Second, this will add an interesting challenge as trains would have to be assembled to account for industries following the crew swap.  The pitfalls: my layout isn't large enough to accurately replicate this and the train originating in New London would be waiting in the hole for quite some time until the Plainville train found its way down the helix for the meet.  Also, this will call for yet another complete redesign as Hannah Yard is not currently the terminus of the line so this train would have to work backwards first then run its power around to head "east" and make the meet in Norwich at the Holly Hock Yard (previously Talman St Yard).

Presently, I am going to follow the PW prototype as this will allow the most flexibility in train movements. There are three Plainville Locals (PV-1, PV-2 & PV-3) with PV-3 operating in two shifts to handle 24-7 traffic in and out of the auto unloading terminal it serves and all three trains taking turns as the "yard job" when needed.  New London has two locals (NL-1 & NL-2 which will interchange with my other freelanced regional in staging when needed.  A twice-weekly transfer, PVNL, originates in Plainville with switched out freight from the locals as well as freight from PanAm Southern's PLED out of Eas Deerfield, MA.  PVNL makes a stop in Holly Hock Yard (Norwich) to drop cars for the NW-1 local based there.  NLPV is the return symbol that moves autoracks as well as switched out freight from the local jobs .  When there are no autoracks to move, NLPV will work the quarry on the return trip to Plainville (when stone is in season).

On top of these regular trains, there is a "when needed" transfer between Plainville and CSX's Cedar Hill Yard in North Haven, CT (represented in staging), a Sunday merchandise extra between the terminals and a "special" which is an as-needed extra that runs only to move oversized, hazardous or just odd loads.

I figure this will change as I delve deeper into my trackplan ( https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/trackplan-for-the-ppnl-need-some-feedback-12190580) design, but I feel this is a good starting point.  At the very least, I feel I have a much better understanding (and appreciation) of how trains operate.

Thanks again for everyone who contributed your comments - I could not have gotten this far without them!

Signals and Symbols

As I believe was mentioned as I skimmed through the comments as far as symbols you can use whatever works best for you as alpha or numeric would be entirely prototypical.  You can also avoid using symbols all together and designate trains as simply Extra whatever the train is. 

By doing so you can be prototypical in dispatching and avoid pickling yourself into a train symbol.  You can simply have say a weekly requirements list or qualify the job types by something like job #1 to say job #5.  One other thing is if it's normally run at a certain time you can even call it say the 0900 job that would start at 9am and it can even have different work or destinations.

Now as for signals as noted CTC would not be used unless of course you were crossing a larger railroad at grade.  One exception to this would be a drawbridge if for example you like signals (like me) and want to include them some way some how.  The drawbridge would be the only interlocking controlled by the brdige master.  Interlockings would be in place to prevent the bridge opening with a train in advanced approach (depending on speed minimum 1 block, but could be 2).  For a short line probably the former.

Also noted was ABS signals were just as expensive.  The thing to keep in mind is if the signals are in place they should have a purpose.  In other words if your not having many or any meets they are probably not necessary.  ABS signals would be used primarily for following movements.  Opposing movements would fall in the lines of a clearance by a dispatcher.

Some short lines have no dispatchers at all.  If 2 trains are expected on the territory they can have exclusive rights to the track, sign a train register or log book.  Assuming it's just you running most of the time then I take it your not expecting very many meets so it's probably not necessary to have a dispatcher.

Thanks

Sean

Excellent Addition

I really like the "XYZ Job" naming convention and have been inadvertently calling the Norwich local the Thames Job (which is a little catchier than "NW-1") which might end up sticking.

I am operating this railroad as if all train crews are in "radio contact" with one another and that each train will have track rights to its operating territory.  That is, PV-3, the western turn to Bristol, is the only train allowed to operate over the line until it returns to the yard.  The only other train that will use the track is the New London transfer job which only hauls autoracks up to the Gregoryville terminal.

Meets will (hopefully) always occur on the lower level where sidings will be plentiful.  The way it stands right now, a train entering the helix from either level is superior to any other.  There may be a few choke points but I have yet to lay out the lower level so, at the moment, it's a mystery.

Thanks for the comments!

Signals on sidings

If you like signals and want to include them, the sidings would be a good place to try as well.  I can actually think of one prototype example of a system that uses ABS signals in a switching district with possible meets.

Absolute Permissive Block signaling is a system that is used in many CTC systems between control points that uses an overlap to prevent head end collisions.

Typical ABS system only can report the block condition ahead combined with the next signal's aspect.  Thus having the ability to give an approach indication (yellow) if the next signal is stop (red) but the line is clear.  The problem with ABS protecting opposing movements is of the danger of a train entering the block at the same time.  Both trains would have a clear.  Even going into the same track as approach can cause at the very least a slow speed head on collision.  Of course regardless of the safety issue, there is the issue of you now have 2 trains facing each other and 1 has to back up (not very efficient).  So ABS is generally used in track warrant and/or right hand running double track mainlines for example.

Before I go into APB, no signals or dispatching is still possible if the lower level is generally a switching line where trains or locals will meet.  Provided the communication is in place speed can be restricted.  Trillium for example has no dispatcher and by law must not be over 30 MPH.  They can have meets provided all crews are in range and can protect each other by radio, phone, etc.

Now adding the signals under APB can streamline this.  Some systems work on the last used directional relay in single track.  Other systems restore to normal states in both directions.  How a system can work is the following.  Say the 1st train is approaching the 1st siding.  The 1st signal in the system would be the approach signal.  It may be clear or approach depending on the application.  Because he is about to reach a siding, this signal may be approach, or it would be clear if nobody is on the next single track section no matter how many blocks to the next siding.  In that case all opposing signals also drop to red including the home signal on the next distant siding.

Communicating with any other trains in the system, he hears of no conflicts and can continue on.  If however he is aware of another train they can co-ordinate the meet.  Because he got there first the system has already set direction for him to at least the home signal.  But lets say he has other work to do on the way.  So he says he will take the siding and wait for the opposing train.

Even though he has a clear signal in front of him at the siding which is normal, he gets out unlocks the switch and reverses it.  The signal now drops to approach (or restricting - approach can still be used here however if the block has a detection circuit).  Because he is no longer set to go into an opposing movement the system cancels it's APB protection thus allowing the next train to run on single track towards him even if he is not there yet.

Looking at the main beside him the home signal may very well show clear.  The minute the next train is 2 blocks of reaching the distant home signal however it would drop to red.

If say both trains opened up the switch at the same time, even without communications only 1 train would get the clears, and the others would get stop.  

Some systems also use push buttons such as those used at some diamonds to try and actuate the system.  The government mandates safety features that must be in place, but as far as the rules go what signals are displayed are based on how the system has been built for safety and can change not only railroad to railroad, but in many cases block to block depending on speeds and lengths in place.

Thanks

Sean

Symbols vs. Extras

Just as a general clarifying point, keep in mind that the original poster is modeling current day, and also that a train's symbol is very different from a schedule number (the latter of course no longer applies as railroads don't use timetable operation anymore). If you are modelling an earlier era using timetable operation, the train could have a symbol and a matching schedule number, or run on a completely different schedule number, or as an extra with a symbol but no schedule number.

If they're all regular jobs, it can help to have a symbol, or at least a nickname to identify the job. On most modern railroads unless it's really small like one job per day, any regular runs out on the main outside of the yard would pretty much have a symbol. (CN even has symbols reserved for infrequent extra movements.) Yard assignments haven't really been covered by this conversation.

Anyway, plenty of examples to go by!

current day examples

Actually 0900 Job was recently a CN local that ran out of Niagara Falls before it shut down.  I believe more recently the road switchers in the 500 series have taken over their duties because of lack of industries for a yard job to exist.  Dispatch used to refer to them under CTC by 0900.

The Job 1 through 5 is an example of CP Welland Yard for routine jobs that run out of Welland Yard via their mainline to Smithville, Niagara Falls, CN Southern Yard, Port Maitland, and Stevensville.  Dispatch gives them OCS clearances by their lead unit number as an Extra and the job number may be used to first identify themselves for the dispatcher to know what to expect from them, I take it.

These were the closest examples I can think of for what might be a short line train.  Though I believe GEXR has train numbers/symbols.  Trillium does not and refers only by their unit number (they only have 3 engines in Niagara).  As you said there is probably lots of options to choose from here.

Thanks

Sean