You may be sorry - I had commercial turnouts in staging and I'm replacing them with CVT / Fast Tracks. The replacements have fewer derailments.

Remember what I said in my Poor Man's Jig article back in the Sept 2011 MRH ... no commercial turnouts currently follow the NMRA turnout specs completely. That means if your wheels follow the NMRA gauge standards, they will derail more on non-compliant turnouts.

The last place you want more derailments is in staging. Commercial turnouts can be modified (sometimes) to comply, but I find it's just about as much work as building a jig-built - and a jig-built is guaranteed to work right if it's in spec.

...the jig built turnouts become less expensive with each turnout built so it's possible that they will be less costly in the long run than even an Atlas snap switch, if you're using the poor mans jig ala Joe's article.

It seems like it should save time to buy turnouts instead of building them but if you have to fine tune them all...maybe not so much?

I wonder, would it be alright to use "poor mans" turnouts as a bare bones assembly in staging.  Does the turnout need the CVT tie strip to support it or are they good enough with just the soldered in PC ties supporting them?

You can get away with only the crucial pc ties, as long as the soldering is solid.  

It's worth pointing out that Fast Tracks, etc. turnouts are only as good as the workman building them.  If you do sloppy work they will not work worth a darn either.  You need to take care in filing frog and switch points to make sure they line up and fit properly, and be sure the solder holds and that there is no excess solder in flangeways or on running surfaces.  They don't have to be pretty in staging, but they do need to be mechanically sound.

It's worth pointing out that Fast Tracks, etc. turnouts are only as good as the workman building them.  If you do sloppy work they will not work worth a darn either.

Jurgen

Yes, the first turnout I built completely proved this theory, trucks would not run through the frog area reliably.

I figured out what I was doing wrong and gained some hands on experience, since that first build.  I'm happy with the turnouts I'm building now.

If you are looking to reduce cost by buying r-t-r, they will be more expensive than using the poor mans jig built turnouts.  I'm planning to use these kits from Proto 87 Stores:

http://www.proto87.com/lowest-cost-fast-track-HO-turnouts.html

If you buy them in quantity for the $9.95 price they are less than 1/2 the price of the Peco turnouts, based on the C-V system that Joe uses, but including their frog castings.

Russ,

I've tried to get those frogs installed properly, what a pain!  After one, I decided to make the frogs with Fast Tracks jigs and solder them to PC ties.  The castings would be faster and look more prototypical, but is there an easy way to get everything aligned properly? (This may be something Andy can answer...  )

Thanks,

Ryan

Though very expensive, for stating, I will be using a bunch of large radius peco turnouts because I have them on hand.  I have found them to be very reliable.  I have yet to find another HO Turnout to be anything close to being somewhat reliable. 

Ken L

I suppose I will find out for myself soon but can't help wondering.... are commercial switches really that bad? How did everyone make do before the age of jig built? Surely trains weren't derailing constantly, were they? If commercial switches are so unreliable why hasn't a manufacturer seized the opportunity to manufacture compliant, trouble free units? It seems they would quickly dominate the market and could command top dollar. Not everyone has the desire to solder their own, just look to the success of RTR cars as proof. Just wonderin'.

First. Our NMRA Warrant for "Switch-Works" and our Turnout Frogs and parts... . . . . . It was the first ever issued for a "turnout fixture" BTW.

Second, Note that our key individual turnout parts are also SPECIFICALLY INCLUDED in the Warrant, because they meet the standards on their own as well.  That includes our "88-Safe" frogs which are NMRA compliant in their own right.

EXACTLY THE SAME NMRA STANDARD COMPLIANT PARTS ARE INCLUDED IN OUR FAST AND EASY "SUPERFINE" TURNOUTS THAT ARE AVAILABLE IN BOTH KIT FORM AND PRE-BUILT, RTR.

We stand behind all our parts and that includes your very first turnout built using "Switch-Works" or any of our "Superfine" kits. We can afford to do that because we have replacement spare parts that can fix any problem that might be caused by making mistakes during even your first assembly attempt. We will optionally  make up the frogs for you if you wish.  Before OR EVEN AFTER you bought them. . . . . .

I suppose I will find out for myself soon but can't help wondering.... are commercial switches really that bad?

Well, yes and no.  Poorly performing turnouts are the Achilles heel of many layouts, and none of the mass-produced commercial products truly meet NMRA specs, as Andy Reichert frequently notes. *EDIT* I may have misrepresented Andy's position here - sorry for any confusion.  Too many modelers treat turnouts as a "plug and play" installation, and don't bother to tune them up (adjust gauge, file points or frogs, or do other basic corrections) to ensure proper performance.  

Judging from what I see at train shows and such, the average layout doesn't necessarily perform well, and balky commercial turnouts are a big part of the problem.  Once you consider the time needed for careful tuneup, it may be more cost- and time-effective to proceed straight to a jig-built or completely scratch turnout instead.

I used mostly commercial turnouts on my layout.  Based on my latest experiences, I probably would never purchase another Shinohara/Walthers turnout at all due to consistent problems with gauge at the frog and/or points.  Atlas code 100 turnouts are very sloppy, and if I hadn't already had them on hand for my staging yard I wouldn't have used them either (try checking gauge at the points on one straight from the package).  Current Micro Engineering turnouts work OK but often need work to correct misaligned frog castings or blunt points.  A well-tuned Atlas 83 turnout actually works pretty darn well.  None of these looks like a prototype turnout.

I'm sometimes amazed at the poor performance and appearance many modelers tolerate.  This tolerance, and a resistance to change, likely pose barriers to the entry of better products.  If you care to really make things run or look right, you may also find yourself sufficiently dissatisfied with mass produced turnouts to be willing to look elsewhere.  Until another manufacturer steps up, Proto 87 Stores looks like perhaps the best option.