Ken,

Can't help you with the de-construction of your engine. I am interested in the 4-6-0 and the 2-8-0. I looked to see where I can order them from. Where did you get your engine from.

As I was looking over the engines I was thinking these might be a great place to start with a kit bashing project. What I'm thinking is turning them into narrow gauge locomotives. Do you think that it's possible. If I remember right I believe the East Broad Top used standard gauge boilers on a narrow  gauge frame.

Bernd

I have one from my dad's estate.  The boiler is very nice.  I haven't messed with it in great detail. or done more than take off the tender shell.  It has a larger diameter boiler than the Roundhouse 2-8-0.  It is roughly equivalent of a Baldwin engine from the late 1800's, such as a NP class F-1 (in the Kalmbach Locomotive Cyclopedia) or one that was owned by my railroad, Wilmington & Northern #10.

If you swap out the wheels, you will lower the mechanism, make sure the bottom of the mechanism still clears switches, crossings, etc.

The major cosmetic issue I had with the engine (other than the "trucks" for the tender drive) was the rear coupler sticking waaaaaaay to far out the back of the tender.  I figured a little modification and a short shank coupler could fix that.

Bernd,

You and I think along the same lines.  I had one of these models quite a few years ago, and took it apart for just such a conversion.  If you want my opinion, it's possible but a little iffy.

Since the engine is tender driven, modifying the locomotive is not that difficult.  All you have to do is pull the drivers off the axles, take a section out of the frame, shorten the axles and put everything back together.  The big issue here is that 50" drivers, while common for a standard gauge 2-8-0, are pretty large for a narrow gauge engine.  Even the D&RGW K-37, one of the largest 3' gauge engines in the US, only had 44" drivers if I remember correctly.  Also, because of the way the engine is made, you must assemble the drivers with the axle in the frame, which could make quartering a little bit tricky.  And you MUST quarter it properly, because the engine must roll smoothly without the slightest hint of binding.

The tender is the big problem.  There is not quite enough room to push the wheels together to 3' gauge without hitting the frame.  It's close, so maybe the sides of the frame could be thinned enough to barely accommodate narrow gauge wheels, but you'd lose the side play which allows the rigid framed drive to negotiate tight radii.  It may be better to simply replace the entire mechanism with an N scale diesel widened to 3' gauge.  The tender is also a bit wide for the typical narrow gauge engine, although that's a matter of opinion of course.

I'll be glad to share photos of any parts you need to see, or to discuss the conversion further.  If you do try it, I would love to see the process!

I bought mine at a local swap meet for $40.  I've seen them on ebay for anything from $30 to $100.  Personally, I would not spend more than $50 on one, as for that you can find quite a few MDC/roundhouse 2-8-0's.  The newer version, which is DCC ready (I think?) might be worth a bit more, but I would still be hesitant to spend what some people are asking.  The Roundhouse engine runs more smoothly, is not tender driven, is easier to re-motor, and is available as an HOn3 engine without modification.  The Model Power/Brazil model is good looking and is easier to bash because of the tender drive, and may be easier to put DCC in.  Both have their advantages and issues.

on kitbashing this engine is making a whole new frame under the engine. Maybe even an outside frame. Smaller wheel dia. would be no problem. 

As far as the tender, well perhaps a chunk taken out of the middle and a whole new floor to accommodate a 3' gauge truck. Without actually having an engine in front of me it's hard to say.

My way of thinking here is probably a little more out of the ordinary kitbash. Somebody would say why not just buy an engine the is already a narrow gauge engine to begin with.

And no DCC for me on the narrow gauge right now.

Guess I'll need to see if I can find one of these engines for further study. Thanks for the input. Gives me something to think about in the mean time.

Bernd

As far as the tender, well perhaps a chunk taken out of the middle and a whole new floor to accommodate a 3' gauge truck. Without actually having an engine in front of me it's hard to say.

That's not really practical with the design of this model.  The tender has a motor and four axles in a rigid frame.  The trucks do not swivel - in fact they're not trucks at all.  Functionally, the tender drive is an 0-8-0 with 36" wheels.  The truck side frames are simply decorative.  The engine simply gets pushed along in front, rolling free.

Ken,

I was actually thinking of powering the engine. With the small can motors and gear boxes that are available today I would think that would be possible. Plus somewhere in my favorites is a place that sells wheel sets. If the proper ones aren't available then I would scratch build them.

I think I've seen a drive like this before somewhere. Maybe I'm nuts wanting to power the engine instead of the tender. I really like the way both the 4-6-0 and 2-8-0 look. So I'd be scratch building half of the locomotive. 

Like I said I need to get one of those engines and take a closer look before I commit to such cruelty to an engine.

Bernd

It's just my opinion, of course, but I think you would be better off with a different approach.

On one hand, you could narrow the frame, put a widened N scale mechanism in the tender (or try to narrow the model's mechanism), and keep the model's "spirit" much as it is now.  That's what I would do if I had one of these models and wanted an HOn3 engine

On the other hand, you could scratch build an entire locomotive.  By the time you make a new frame, find new drivers, motor, gears, tender frame (and shell, perhaps), trucks, etc., about the only things left are the boiler and cab, and those are the easiest parts to make from scratch!  That's what I would do if I wanted an HOn3 engine.

You seem willing to tackle making your own frame.  Given that, every other part of building a locomotive is child's play.  Considering the modifications you are talking about making and the number of parts that will have to be changed or replaced, I really don't see any reason to waste your money on an engine you're going to cut up and scrap.  Better to leave it as it is or slightly modified, or not bother with it in the first place.  If you like the way they look, by all means make your model similar.  I might even be willing to part with some of my spare parts - I have all of one of these engines as spare parts, except 3 drivers, the axles, and the mechanism.

If you still want to think about the bash, and if I can help with photos or dimensions of any of the parts, please don't hesitate to ask.  I'm happy to help in any way I can, and I understand just how hard it is to find accurate information about a model without buying it and looking at it in person.

Whatever you do, please take care of those pilot braces!  Ouch!

I have refrained from buying any cheap Tyco/Mantua 2-8-0's because they also are pushers.  I am curious to see how you proceed with the work of making a pusher run decently.  I have not run The General in many years, but do not remember it being a great runner at all!

Whatever you do, please take care of those pilot braces!  Ouch!

Not to worry!  The engine is slated for a full strip and rebuild treatment.

I have refrained from buying any cheap Tyco/Mantua 2-8-0's because they also are pushers.

Just a note - those were pure Tyco, and an insult to the Mantua name in my opinion.  The only good thing I can say about those engines is that they had 57" drivers which (with lots of work) could be used in a scratch built engine.

I cannot complain too much about this model being a pusher.  As long as the drivers and rods are well assembled (as they should be on any steam engine anyway) they run pretty well.  It's not in the same class as the Roundhouse models, but it's pretty close, and the biggest problems are the motor and gears, not the tender drive style.

Guess I need to put that on the back burner for now. I came to the same conclusion after I posted the message. "I might as well scratch-build one".  It was just seeing that picture of the engine. It shouted EBT narrow gauge at me.

Oh well. I'm working on that Walthers rotary coal dumper. I'm waiting for some plastic rod to arrive so I can make an auger to load a coal barge. But I'm getting off subject here. I'm just saying that the engine project will have to wait. Who knows, maybe in the mean time I might run across one at a show too.

Back to modeling and getting the coal dumper module finished.

Bernd