dfandrews

I have 15 old freight cars, along with a batch of new trucks and couplers, that I had intended to work on during the super bowl, but the game was too exciting.  So there sits some of my oldest equipment (up to 50 years old):  Athearn, Model Die Casting, Ulrich, and even a Varney.  Wait to next weekend!

They're all 40 foot cars, which fits the scenario I am developing in proto freelancing a layout design.  The railroad will be from the CA coast at Ventura/Oxnard, trackage rights with SP up the coast 15 miles, to Rincon, then inland and over the mountains to the Bakersfield area of CA's Central Valley.  Motive power will be short wheelbase steam and 4 axle diesel due to grades and curves.  Customers will be local agriculture and oil with products going out, ag and oil raw materials and chemicals in, lumber and building materials in for the post WWII building boom, and bridge route/ alternative route for SP and maybe SF traffic to Southern California.  Grades and curves are more severe than Tehachapi, but route miles are much less.  The line will also serve the deepwater port of Hueneme, although I don't have room for port operations, just interchange.  There may be an around-the-perimeter sea level route for SP trains up and down the coast, if I can fit it in. 

The inclusion of a Santa Fe connection at the Central Valley is all the more interesting due to the less than congenial history SP and SF have had thoughout the development of rail routes in California.  As I develop the history of my might-have-been line, some interesting stories could be written.

The room is 10.4 x 12.4 feet.  A 2 x 6.5 feet closet at one end will hold staging yard(s), storage, and work bench areas.  I'm looking at either an around three walls with a lift-up at the door, or (as is noted in the disussion forum thread on "Background" Helix) a "C" plan with a narrow 24 inch aisle on one long wall, to add run length on the back side.  I have been following the Helix discussion to see if I can add a level to increase run length and distance between towns, but avoiding plans with just spaghetti cris-crossing scenes is difficult. 

I have a CAD plan of the room with a 12" grid and some circles of different main radii, but I work better with pencil (and eraser) on that basic background plan, so no CAD track plan exists, yet.

Major stops (LDE's, if you want)

-the terminal and SP connection in Oxnard, with lots of industrial service.  Oxnard today has trackage wandering around the strangest places.  industry, agri warehouses, sugar beets, cement wholesaler with rail service.  Interchange with the port off-scene.

-Ventura:  branch to oil refineries, and cattle pens and agriculture warehouses.

-Coast north of Ventura:  coastal cliff running, and the Occidental refinery.

-turning in off the coast up the rincon creek valley at "County line".

-over the mountains:  cattle, feed crops, then oil fields around Taft.

-connection with the SP and SF via the "Sunset Railway."

Trains: 

a hauler the length of the line each way, each day

local that alternates days up the Ventura branch and up the coast

local switcher - every day

SP through freights, mostly lumber for the SoCal building boom.

passenger run each way, alternate days, with a 2-8-0 or RS-3 with two or three 60 ft. harriman cars:  there is where the track plan and scenery need to disguise the overhangs on outside curves--  we'll see!

Don - CEO, MOW super.

Rincon Pacific Railroad, 1960.  - Admin.offices in Ventura County

HO scale std. gauge - interchanges with SP; serves the regional agriculture and oil industries

DCC-NCE, Rasp PI 3 connected to CMRI, JMRI -  ABS searchlight signals

Reply 0
feldman718

Post Super Bowl Musings

Sounds interesting. You don't mention a scale though. It sounds like you're packing in alot if this in HO or larger scale unless you're using a multi-level design.

My layout is located in a 12 foot 3 inch by 15 foot room and It is in N Scale. The layout is set in New York and features car float operations at Bay Ridge, Brooklyn and then runs east and north to New Haven, Connecticut. I've found I need two levels to incorporate all if not most of it in N-Scale.

Right now the track plan is in my head but one of these days I'll put in on paper for all to see.

Irv

Reply 0
Cuyama

Info sources I mentioned before

Sounds like a great candiate for a layout, although perhaps a bit ambitious for that space in HO (I assume you are working in HO since you mention Varney cars).

I've designed something similar a couple of times. I mentioned these articles before in answer to another post, but because your description is so close to those designs, I thought I'd just mention them again (sorry for the repeat). Both of these articles are in the Layout Design Journal, published by the Layout Design SIG. Back issues are available at the link. The Ventura County Railway was covered extensively in LDJ-26, with photos, spotting maps, and two track plans. My N scale Midland Pacific layout concept was very similar in a lot of ways to your description of going inland from Casitas Pass Rd, but instead it connected to the coast further north at Pismo and Avila. The Midland Pacific was covered in LDJ-35 and included oil fields and agricultural customers very similar to what you described -- and it connected with both the Sunset Railway and imagineered remnants of a possible Bakersfield and Ventura.

Finally, although it's certainly no prize-winner as a layout, you might be interested in my somewhat unsophisticated design for the hollow-core-door-sized N scale  Rincon Northern.  I can only say in defense of the design choices on that little layout that everybody has to start somewhere!

In reading your description of the concept and the space, I do have a concern about the reality of what can fit. I'd encourage some disciplined to-scale sketching of at least an area of the layout or two for a reality check. Just as an example, a 6.5' long closet can be used up pretty quickly once you consider the space HO staging yard ladders can take. It may not leave you adequate room for storing the length of trains you envision.

Best of luck!

Reply 0
dfandrews

HO scale; and more thoughts

Yes, the plan is to model in HO scale.   That's why it's taking a long time to get anything down on paper.  I'm trying to develop the one viable plan that may exist among the impossibles.   If I was still modeling in N-scale this plan would be a slam-dunk.  But,  when the reading glasses got bigger, I sold all the N-scale [except an SP MC-2 2-8-8-2 cab-ahead that a friend built for me.  That loco was built in 1975, based on a Y6b mechanism, and could start and pull a 40 car reefer block on a 4% grade:  we did it at East Valley Lines at Griffith Park in 1975!].  It is tempting to go back into N-scale, since the detail is better now, and mechanisms now run about as well as HO.  And the prices are at or below HO levels for much of the new equipment.

But, I like the looks of Code 70 and 83 rail in HO, signals can be prototypically sized and still be operational, and I enjoy hand-laying track.  The CVMW tie strips and switch kits look especially appealing.   N-scale Code 55 and 40 is a bit small for my eyes, fingers, and stray elbows.                  So, my weighing of pluses and minuses regarding HO vs. N =>    HO.   Tight radii don't bother me visually:  I'm looking at 21 inch mains, 18-19 inch hidden, and down to 15-16 inch in industrial.  Good track-laying can make this work.  After all,  the last few years, with my present club, we have made 40-45 foot radii work for 4 axle steam in 1-1/2 inch scale!

Here's a thought:  at 22 inch radius, 3¼% grade:  a helix is possible.  It's about the equivalent of 3-5/8% on a straight pull, if all the equipment is tuned up.

Byron, thanks for the repeat/reminder about LD Sig and LDJ-26.  In spite of the "tradition" to ignore, I had fully intended to follow up on those, but forgot.  And speaking of the "tradition to ignore", I see you follow your own advice to not follow your own advice, with "Never Mind", under "Another TWC question". 

Don - CEO, MOW super.

Rincon Pacific Railroad, 1960.  - Admin.offices in Ventura County

HO scale std. gauge - interchanges with SP; serves the regional agriculture and oil industries

DCC-NCE, Rasp PI 3 connected to CMRI, JMRI -  ABS searchlight signals

Reply 0
Benny

You have a basement sized

You have a basement sized dream....a bedroom won't hold it quite the same way.  The best advice i can give is think big; HO likes 30" radius or more.

--------------------------------------------------------

Benny's Index or Somewhere Chasing Rabbits

Reply 0
Cuyama

Don said: Here's a thought: 

Don said:
Here's a thought:  at 22 inch radius, 3¼% grade:  a helix is possible.  It's about the equivalent of 3-5/8% on a straight pull, if all the equipment is tuned up.

I'm not sure that's right. The traditional thought is that the effective grade will be higher than that. More importantly beyond grade, the alignment of forces across the center of a helix that tight will lead to a tendency to stringline the train (pull the cars straight across the helix and derail).

No less an accomplished modeler than our own Joe Fugate found that a 24" radius HO helix did not work well and replaced it with a 40" version. The story is in Layout Design Journal #14. He noted that the 2.65% "inherent" grade of the helix acted more like a 4% grade in practice due to the relatively tight radius.

Good track laying is a must for the radii you've planned, but unfortunately it's not a panacea. And in any case, I would still have concerns about what will fit, even at those radii. Turnouts take a surprising (and frustrating!) amount of space. Rigorous to-scale sketching early in the process might avoid disappointment later.

Reply 0
peter-f

re: Don's thoughts

Ouch-

I HAVE a layout with 3% grades - well- I dropped them to 2-1/2% because the motive power was struggling to stay in motion.

But (here's the good news) my curves are 19" minimum (3 tracks roughly concentric) and stringlining does not happen.  Still... given more room I'd use 20 to 21" minimum with 2-3/4% max grade-

[with emphasis] It's Really steep for most purposes.

 

-Peter

 

- regards

Peter

Reply 0
Cuyama

curves vs. helix

But (here's the good news) my curves are 19" minimum (3 tracks roughly concentric) and stringlining does not happen.

Is that a 360 degree+ turn as in a helix? The stringlining problems I've seen are more troublesome as the train wraps around a full circle.

Reply 0
peter-f

(Sorry for not checking

(Sorry for not checking back)

Of my Major curves:    most (4) are 70 to 100, (2) are 150 to 180 deg.   but some (3) are 190 to 210 deg or so - and train length has not shown any problems -yet-

I can appreciate what you're pointing out... my emphasis was the steeper slope may be a major drag on traction power... that  1/2% made a Huge difference in uphill pulling!

 Regards!

- regards

Peter

Reply 0
Reply