Sound volume...

Hi Grandpoplew,

problem with sound volume is that, it is an individual thing. Some people like their sounds all the way up , some, just like it "to be there". This discussion has been on since day one of DCC with sound.

Now for your problem,

did you seal the speaker(s), making a thight enclosure (I know, on steamers some use the tender as enclosure, I prefere not to, but that's a personal liking), even the tiniest gap on the enclosure will have you loss of sound.

Now on some of the MRC decoders there is a manual volume control (pot), on top of the decoder, that you have to adjust with a jeweler's screwdriver. Maybe your decoder has it sounds turned down. For the individual cv sound settings you will have to check the owners manual. Best thing you can do is, look them up online, since there you will find the most updated manuals at the time.

Same thing for the Soundtraxx decoders, depending if it is an "LC" or a "Tsunami", check the owners manual online. I am going to spare you the settings for a "Tsunami heavy steam" I just did for an Athearn Genesis Challenger since I am not even half way through myself. lol

Now, and this is what people forget about, don't expect "rumble" read "bass" comming out of a small speaker, for that, cfr Digitraxx forum video, you will have to wait for the "surroundtraxx" to come out. And I am pretty sure this systhem will have their likers and dislikers. Just immagine, even on a "bigg" layout, the rumble, air release, and what ever sound a lokomotiv is supposed to be making, on an almost 1/1 scale sound.

Awesome!!! I hear you saying, sure......for the first minutes, but what about, afther a 3 hours session? I just can not immagine when entering a train room there will be a sign stating, "Beyond this point, ear protection!!!" lol.

My roster has the sound down to 50%, some even to 35% of maximum, and even then afther a while on days it gets ennoying. When I am fine tuning my sound, I think "scale", once you set your mind to that, I am sure you are going to like more and more the low sound volume........., but that is my personal observation.

That sound volume discussion is a never ending story topic. I just hope my posting on your problem is not going to start a new discusion on that topic on this site.lol

Well, that's it for me, hope I could help you some............

Jappe (Harley's and trains,yéééééééééhaw!!!)

SurrondTraxx

SurrondTraxx is out, has been for some time.

It will work as a stand alone sound system if you have a small, 4x4 of smaller, layout. Otherwise to get the sound to follow your train around the layout you need the Loconet system from Digitrax so you can use the transponder function to tell the SurroundTraxx system where your train is so the sound can be transfered from one sound zone to the next.

If I understand correctly, what the Digitrax folks are introducing is a new unit, the PR3, which allows you to set up Loconet without having to buy a Digitrax command station to run it.

New other new piece from Digitrax is the Loconet repeater which allows Loconet as a whole to keep running if one section has a problem in it the same way that seperate powerboosters allows the layout to stay up and running if one power district has a short in it.

This is the way I understand what they are talking about in segment 2 of the Digitrax video, someone please correct me if I am wrong.

As I am planning an L shaped  N-scale layout along two walls of an 8x12 room I have been looking for a way to get decent sound, not happening with n-scale speakers, I have been looking at the SurroundTraxx system, just did not want to use Digitrax, prefer NCE. This may have just changed my mind about the Loconet system.

My opinions, free of charge, worth everything that you paid for them.

Thanks,

Dale B.

You are essentially correct ...

Dale you are essentially correct ... I would love to see an article in MRH about setting up Loconet using the non-command-station approach you describe on an NCE layout so you could use Surround Traxx.

I think such an article would be killer level if someone was to do it!

If you (or anyone reading this) might be interested in doing this, please contact us!

Purchasing the SurroundTraxx

Purchasing the SurroundTraxx if you are going to have ONE speaker under the layout is wastefull.  It is an expensive monophonic amplifier for the  $500.00 it takes.  Simpler is to take a sound decoder and feed the output from it to an amplifier/speaker under the layout. 

For the full 9 yards, it must talk to a Digitrax command station, not stand alone.  

Marc 

So a Digitrax command station is required?

So a Digitrax command station is required? You can't just use a PC + PR3 + BLD-16s + RX-4s to get the Digitrax transponding info fed off loconet into SurroundTraxx?

It needs access to the SLOT

It needs access to the SLOT info for speed, throttle setting, function key pressed,  direction of travel, transponding info. Without that it is in the dark.  The PC, pr3, BDL, RX can not provide that,  only the command station.  They can be made master and provide termination for the Loconet bus, but that is it.  Maybe an application in JMRI or RR&C may come out to share the info of the command station of your choice. but for now that is it.

They say it may be availlable for other DCC systems, someday. But not many companies have jumped on the Digitrax transponding band wagon so far. 

Marc 

Command station required?

Marc, I am not trying to start an argument or anything but please check this link from the Digitech support page, http://www.digitrax.com/kb/index.php?a=50.

This tells that the loconet can be used with other dcc systems, then a pc connected to the loconet using, as you said, JMRI or RR&CO, can get the transponding info and feed it into the Surroundtraxx system.

Stand alone may be a slightly misleading phrase in this case as you are essentially correct also, loconet by itself is useless. it needs  either a  Digitrax commandstation or a pc running JMRI or RR&CO  to be able to access any of the info provided by loconet. 

Dale

That was my understanding ...

Dale:

That was my understanding from listening to AJ Ireland at the Digitrax User Forum - which I video'ed, so I was there and heard it in person - plus I've been watching and rewatching that session on video while editing it.

By using a PC and the new PR3, you can get a command-stationless implementation of LocoNet, and can do transponding. From there, you could hook to SurroundTraxx and pass the transponding info on.

If we've got this right, it would make a fantastic article to have someone get this working and tell the rest of us all about it.

If this is correct, this now puts LocoNet in direct competition with CMRI ... !

That link is true, it

That link is true, it simply does not apply in this  case.  The problem is that the SurroundTraxx requires more than what a stand alone Loconet can provide. And at present the SurroundTraxx only understand Digitrax DCC commands.

Loconet can provide the transponding info to a computer running lets say JMRI.  That will only be transponding position.  The direction of travel, speed and function key on/off is allways provided by the command station via slot info.  Transponders or the transponding receiver have no idea of direstion, simply that such and such  loco is in this block.  

A stand alone Loconet will not provide ALL  the  required info to  the SurroundTraxx.

If you still do not believe this read what  SoundTraxx site, literature for the SurroundTraxx says :

" SurroundTraxx is designed for use with Digitrax® command control systems and accessories; other command stations will be supported in the future. "  

Marc 

I understand..

Marc,

I understand what you are saying and not having enough experience in this hobby as of yet I will just have to set back and hope someone can try to do this and submit an article, to MRH of course, to find out the results.

Unfortunatly that person will not be me due to recent financial setbacks, at least I still have my job but the bills come before the hobbies if ya know what I mean!

Thanks,

Dale B.

Yep, we know what you mean ...

Dale:

We know what you mean, for sure, about tight budgets. That's why I think MRH being free will really help out the hobby - more money for the trains (or the budget) and less money on publications.

This also helps out the teen modelers who never have enough money as it is for the hobby. If teens can learn about the hobby from free high quality online sources, then maybe we can get more youngsters interested in the hobby, aye?

Bottom line: when high quality model railroading how-to content's available for free over the internet, then it helps everybody!

To me it just makes sense that it's in the manufacturers' best interest to sponsor such a thing as MRH! Good quality free hobby how-to information will inspire modelers to do more in the hobby!

And when the hobby is doing well, that helps us all!

Dave, Not to beat a dead

Ummm.. Excuse me but...

The sound decoder companies are now (and have been) going to some extra measures to change the qualities of the sound relative to engine load. For example, soundtrax when the throttle is opened wide (and some acceleration is dialed in) will change the exhaust notes to make the it bark (johnson bar in the corner). As the engine accelerates to the 'throttle' speed the johnson bar gets 'hooked up' and the exhaust note moderates.

So, how could an under the table sound system know this stuff from reading throttle slot information in a command station? How could the chuff of a steamer be synchonized to wheel rotation? Etc.

What's really needed here is two way communication between external sound system and the decoder!

How are transitions from one 'sound district' to another handled?

I'd like to see sound traxx get involved with that company doing the train room gps! This would make much finer control of which speakers the sound comes out of possible.

Ideally a system would drive headphones for each user computing the appropriate sounds for each ear (it would need to know where the trains are located, their direction, speed, throttle setting, the location of buildings, hills, and tunnels, and the location and orientation of the headphone user). From this binaural* sound could be computed for each crewman's headphones giving them 'surround' sound customized for their situation. It would know that the train across the aisle is actually miles away and it's sound would not be present. Try doing that with external speakers! Additionally any radio communication between crews and dispatcher (or between engineer and conductor and helper crew) could be channeled through the headphones.

Whatever...

Charlie Comstock

As per the info I found, no

Spoke to Soundtraxx rep Jarrette Ireland  and he cleared up the issue.    

Digitrax DCC is only needed to configure the BDL168/RX-4. Once this is all setup it is suppose to function with any DCC system, as per Jarrette.   This means the SurroundTraxx is capable of gathering the transponder info and assigning it to the proper internal decoder and sound output channel. 

That being said you would only require a computer, Locobuffer-USB and JMRI to configure the BDL168.

So stand corrected. 

Marc

Charlie; The unit in question

Charlie;

The unit in question is a soundtraxx decoder in a box X 6.  In other words the locomotive decoder is sending the sync info required along with all the rest.  so when it is relayed to the Surround Traxx it can be correct for that exact sound unit.  The black box can store up to 100 of your UNIQUE locomotives and play back 6 at the same time.  Plus you can dasey chain them for more capacity.  This is getting some of the cababilities of the old PFM units.  This is NOT a pick a sound type system but a full Sound Traxx system - think Tsunami on steroids.

As for the GPS and head phones-- you would need a whole set of channels for headphones tied into the dispatcher etc.  Maybe feed that thru the throttle, that is just more software instead of more radio channels.  The downside is you still would lose the Deeeeeep bass sounds.

TCC:}

Marc; The PR3 and a PC/Mac

Marc;

The PR3 and a PC/Mac with JMRI is a command unit.  And I don't think anyone is talking about doing this with a NCE or Lenz unit just yet.  It still requirers proprietary technology from Digitrax.

TCC:}

TCC, PR3 and a PC/MAC and

TCC,

PR3 and a PC/MAC and JMRI  are  not a command unit at all.  PR3 is simply an interface to a command station. Remove the command station and all the PR3 will do is give JMRI access to the Loconet and permit turnouts to be switched and  LED to  be turn off/on if they are connected to a card on the Loconet.  You will not get a loco to move in this state without a command station. 

Other than that I have no idea what you are trying to explain to me.

On the headphone question. You replace the speakers with a head phone jacks, period. So let's say on a multy level layout,  you have an idling switcher on the lower level and  and a fast moving freight on the upper. You simply have head phones and you can have the full effect of SurroundTraxx for the specific section/level.  No need  for additional channels and what not.  The sub-woofer is still present and you can feel it without hearing it.

Marc 

To me, sound in HO

To me, sound in HO locomotives isn't particularly realistic.  Especially, the sound is not consistent with the effort of the locomotive, particularly for acceleration or drifting.  Secondarily, there is the  inadequacy of bass sounds which I associate with railroad locomotives.  Regardless, I'm still a'waiting to see Joe's DCC presentation from this last week's NMRA convention.

Mark

Thanks!

Marc:

Thanks for the follow-up!

Since it is possible to use SurroundTraxx on a non-Digitrax layout, I'd love to see an article in MRH about it!

If you have any inclination in this direction, contact us! We'll work with you to put together a dandy article.

I got the same..

Marc, you called and I emailed, seems we both got the same info from Jarrett.

My email:

Digitrax and Soundtraxx tech support: I have a couple of questions
about your respective systems, but first the particulars.

N-scale, mostly GP7s & GP9s. Problem #1 speakers to fit in N-scale
locos SUCK for decent sound.

Soundtraxx to the rescue with Surround Traxx, but requires Digitrax
loconet to function properly. Oops, proceed with caution! =-O   Problem
#2, I already have an NCE powercab system. I preferred the user
interface over Digitrax, sorry guys.

Digitrax to the rescue this time with their new PR3 loconet terminator.
Loconet doesn't need a Digitrax command station to function now. YAY!
  By connecting a BDL168 and an RX4 between the loconet and the
track and a TL1 transponder in the loco, loconet and Surround Traxx now
know where the loco is. (Example, transponder and sound zone 2).

With a PC running JMRIs' Panel Pro connected to the PR3, because from
my understanding of JMRIs' help and FAQs, panel pro can read info from
loconet, Panel Pro knows where the loco is. Powercab knows what loco it
is, which direction it's going and throttle setting. (Example #4444,
forward at 20% throttle). Again help and FAQs tell me that JMRI, when
connected to the powercab using their new USB interface, (on order),
knows this info also.

Questions: #1        Do you know if the loconet and Surround Traxx can
read these Powercab settings from JMRI and adjust the sound accordingly?

#2        If I change these settings or add another one, will Surround
Traxx respond? (Example, increase/decrease throttle and/or sound the
horn). Digitrax, please do not refer me to the tech support depot
unless you know exactly where to send me, all I can find there is that
loconet using the new PR3 will work alongside another brand of command
station, but not if it will work in conjunction with another brand
using JMRI or RR&CO as a go between/translator interface.

Thank you for your time and look forward to your answers as I really
won't enjoy spending what will most likely be well over $1000.00 for
hardware that I may not be able to use the way I want.   Sincerely,
Dale Barker

Jarretts response:

Dale,
     Thank you for your interest in Surroundtraxx. Setting up surroundtraxx isn't the same as motor and sound decoders in several respects. The initail setup you won't use decoder pro because you can st it up on the menu in surroundtraxx. It not done through CVs its done with regulare english on a knob that allows you to scroll through and select which sounds you want. Having said that once you set it up you can make "on the fly adjustments with a cab or decoder pro as it can also be adjusted by the same CVs in the Tsunami decoders.

So in response to your second question yes it will respond to DCC programming as you adjust it while your on the main. Surroundtraxx isn't an operating system it's just plugged in to interpret the 2 way DCC information but it program very similiar to a decoder should you choose that option for programming it.

-Jarrette Ireland

So the horse ain't dead yet!!

Note that I sent this to Digitrax also but haven't heard back from them yet, might be a while as they just went live in thier new location in Panama City, FL today.

Now all I need to do is win the lottery so I can build this!!

Dale or Dave, call me whatever you want as long as it's not late to meals.

Sounds good (sorry, bad pun)!

Marc:

If you can take photos, shoot some video clips of trains running (so we can see and hear it in operation) and provide some notes, we have editors on staff who can probably help do the actual write up - and one or more of them may even be local to you! I'll contact you offline via email and we can discuss some more specifics.

More questions

Yea Marc, I kind of had the same feeling.

Is Jarrett talking about actual programing of locomotives or running of trains and will the horn sound if I press the horn button?

I will post the answer I receieve from The big D when I get it, otherwise I bow to your greater knowledge of this hobby and its related hardware.

By the way, the name is Dale

This is gonna get fun!!!!!!!

Oppps!.. Sorry Dale. My eyes

Oppps!.. Sorry Dale. My eyes are giving up...  No need to bow, This is how we learn.

Those are a few of the ' not to clear ' to me either. If the NCE command station is not talking to the SurroundTraxx because one is on  Loconet and the other on NCE cab bus,  how is the SurroundTraxx to know it is time to blow the horn.  SurroundTraxx is not monitoring the track packets, just Loconet. 

I hope they have a PDF up on the site eventually.  

Don't put your hopes to high on getting better answers from Big D. They had little to do with it SurroundTraxx as per AJ Ireland.

Thing that surprises me is the fact SoundTraxx does not even offer transponding on their decoders, not even the latest Tsunami diesel.

Marc