Cool adaptation of technology!

Yesterday I had looked up one of those camera kits you can mount to a flat car.  Cost for the setup with receiver was $99.   Then I see this.  Have you checked for tunnel clearance?  Do you have to increase your tunnel footings for height clearance?

I know I can't do this on an N scale tunnel portal.  However, my mind is racing with ideas now.  Natural rock tunnels?  My wife has an iPhone 4.  Hmmmmm!  I wonder if she will let me borrow it??? 

Den

1880 - 1930 N scale Southern Pacific.

Hi Den, The nice thing

Hi Den,

The nice thing about cameras and receiver combinations is that you can watch progress live, and they are lower profile / center of gravity which may be beneficial in some situations.  On a slight tangent, the unloaded car weighs 1.2 ounces, loaded with phone it's 6.9, if I remember right.

Regarding your tunnel clearance question, dimensions are within NMRA specs - if an NMRA clearance guage will fit, this car will.  On another slight tangent, the guy who disigned this also designed a clearance car - basically a rolling NMRA gauge. 

Matt Goodman

Columbus, Ohio

New, longer video

As follow up to my initial video taken using the iCar, I had an opportunity to record a run over a local club's layout - The Columbus HO Model Railroad Club.

The club was open to the public after a local NMRA division meeting, and onlookers were were excited about the application of a popular electronic gizmo and the hobby (some of the comments are heard in the video).

I learned several things from this *much* longer run than in the previous video:

• The iCar is very stable - less wobbling than I expected (perfectly within reason) and no derailments.  The track on this layout is very old (all brass), so I was curious how it would handle turnout frogs and other imperfections - especially given the semi-scale wheelsets I had swapped out. 
• Clearances are fine - they are NMRA compliant.  There were a few places with under 1/8" clearances, but no lineside details or iPhones were harmed.
• I recorded both an end of train and head of train video.  I preferred the end of train positioning so that I could see the train snaking it's way about - it gave a better feeling of being along for the ride.  Next I'll try a mid train position so the locomotive(s) are visible more often, and with four or five lower cars immediately in front of the camera to improve the view.
• On head end positions, I'll try biasing the focal depth closer to the car.  As it was, details started getting blurry 1-2 feet from the camera.
• I found that my device, with the stuff that is currently stored on it, will record about 40 minutes of high def video.  It ran out of memory on the return trip (with the iCar leading the train), so I didn't post that video.
• Editing 25 minutes of high def video really makes a computer work!

This device plus the iCar is good as a traveling recording device - I'll be recording another layout this weekend.

P.S., forgive the mugging for the camera - I was excited and couldn't resist...

Recording from the head end. 

Recording from the head end.  An interesting contrast to the tail end of the previous video.  My wife likes the former, I prefer the latter...

There seems to be more slack action at the front.

Union Pacific Wyoming Division

iPod and iCar (a wish for N scale)

The iCar is a really great idea.  I'm really impressed with its use.  I was looking on the Minuteman Models site to see what was available.  So far it is only for HO scale.  I am sure someone will adapt it to On30 at some point.

Minuteman Models also have a cradle adapter for the iPod to go in the iCar with some mods.  I have a 16GB iPod.  It has the camera and mic for recordings.  I got my iPod out this evening and suddenly realized that if there was a small iCar to carry only the iPod I could record with it on N scale layouts.  The iPod weighs nothing as compared to the iPhone 4.  The iPod's dimensions are really much smaller.  Small enough that it could work for N scale!  We just need an iCar designed only for the iPod on N scale trucks

I sent an inquiry to Minuteman Models about future plans for N scale based on this idea of an iPod iCar for N scale.  If the response is that there is no future for this idea then I will buy the current kit to study and make my own to fit the small size of the iPod for N scale.  I can use the current kit when I visit HO layouts.  Knowing this is in my future I am going to make sure that my N scale tunnels and bridges have clearance to accommodate the iPod.

One of the things that has not been mentioned is what a great scenery critiquing tool this is from the view point of running down the track.  You can study scenery areas that need to be improved and/or completed.  In the club video I was paying attention to the scenery as the camera ran through it.  There was one approach to a tunnel where the scenery is.... well, crappy!  It just looked bad.  I hope when viewing the video the club will see this and make changes to improve that tunnel approach.  I was not concerned with the interior of the tunnels, but I could see where someone could use this tool to create a realistic looking tunnel liners or blasted rock wall faces.

Den

I have some intel on N scale

I talked to Motrak models at Timonium last weekend about the iCar.  He said they hadn't told him of plans, in part due to size issues for the phone itself.

Denver Native Lost

Ok, I'm not sure how you get to Frederick, CO going east or west, it's north of Denver, and St. Vrain is farther north. Also the South Platte is only a few blocks west of Union Station.

I'm not saying this to pan the video or the layout. It just hit me how the ability to shoot video from a model train, is going to impact the hobby. Granted, unless you live in the locale that the layout is supposed to depict, you probably aren't going to notice that towns are out of order, or in the wrong direction. As train shot video continues to become a big thing, people are going to become much more concerned about setting towns realistically because someone from that area is much more likely to see their layout than they would just a few years ago. 

The first thing that I noticed was that there were no windows on the track side of Union Station.

If you're standing in the isle of the layout, you aren't going to notice something like that, but riding the train past a flat featureless wall that is supposed to be a well known landmark full of windows, you will notice. The same goes for tunnels.

This ability to cheaply and easily film from the train, is fueling an explosion of new train side video. People aren't going to be satisfied with buildings that only look good from the isle anymore. Places that would never have been modeled, like the insides of tunnels, are now going to be part of the modeled section of the layout. 

It will be interesting to see just where this goes. It could give a whole new meaning to the term "Super Detailing".

iCar

Hello everyone,

Just a quick update on the iCar. We will not be able to make and iCar for N scale.

We will be offering the iCar in all scales and gauges HO scale and larger. We should have the other scales available and up on the website within the next few weeks.

 if you are interested in an iCar please drop us an email at Info@minutemanscalemodels.com

Thank You

Shawn Cavaretta

MinuteMan Scale Models

http://www.MinuteManScaleModels.com

978-302-4524

Nice Comments

Thanks Shawn!

dkaustin, I hadn't heard about the adaptor for the iPod - a great idea, even if it doesn't suit your needs.  Both your and Greyhart's comments about bringing focus to areas that need work (or detail) are spot on.  Still cameras show some of the same things, just not from locations that you can't normally get to -  these tools will make more of the layout modelable - there'll be no place to hide!

I'll cut the club some slack - that layout is olllld (> 40 years).  To your point though, there are several spots on that particular layout that you can't see as a spectator and this onboard camera therefore makes a good tool to clean things up.

Grey, a friend of mine turned the whole layout concept inside out, taking your comments one step further - he conceived a layout being built strictly for the onboard and right of way cameras points of view.  If that comes to be, then all the detail will face the track and the backs (aisle side) of the models will be blank.  Another side effect of this possible outcome is much narrower layouts; build and detail only what is visible from the train.

A second friend is looking forward to the day when cameras are small enough that you can get an steam locomotive engineer's along-the-boiler viewpoint.  Cameras could also be hidden behind the number plate or headlight of a locomotive, etc.  I have to think that focal depth will become a real problem in the former situation, with the boiler being out of focus in order to see down the track.  You see a bit of that in my videos.  Perhaps software will come to the rescue with a version of focus stacking that is used for increasing focal depth in still photos (Helicon Focus, Combine ZM, Adobe products); run the train through the scene once with the camera focused close, then again with it focused further down the track, then merge.  You'll need a bit more storage and processing (and the software!) for that to happen though...

Matt

N scale camera car / recycled post

I'm not trying to hijack this thread; however, a number of you have expressed interest in being able to use a video camera to shoot a "run through" of your layouts.  I posted previously on this with my HO scale solution that I believe could be adapted to N scale.  You can check it out at:  http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/4592.

Rick

Test video to work on focus

Last weekend when I recorded the UP layout, I screwed up two scenes by having the iPhone focus *far* too close.  It reminded me of myself with my contacts out!  Had to throw those away, so the entire layout wasn't covered.  You can see some on the fly focus experimentation going on in the first scene with the camera mid-train (the train with the blue pipes two car lengths ahead pulled by the Challenger).

That experience got me curious about *where* to place the focus, so I set up a test on my shelf layout.  I'll be curious to see whether the findings hold up when applied to a full sized layout.  Take a look and let me know your thoughts.

I'm also curious the groups thoughts on posting hi def video.  This doesn't present me with any issues, but does it cause any issues with others?

Smaller Cameras

They make exceptionally small cameras now. They can be pricey, but they are the size of a button. You could mount it in the cab for the along the boiler view.

With average connection speeds now, I don't see why anyone would film in less than High Def, unless they can't afford a newer camera. Most video you see on YouTube is in High Def now, as that has become the standard.

Other camera options

Thanks Rick for sharing with us another option.  I really appreciate that.

Den

You're welcome, Den

To HiDef or Not To HiDef...

Upload High Definition for sure! Youtube will offer lower quality video if needed, and will usually automatically pick a quality setting that is appropriate for the viewing window size selected and the end users speed.

Having a fast connection and a 27" wide screen monitor, I love high definition video.

Thanks for the feedback on

Thanks for the feedback on high def, Jim and Ken.  I've been on broadband for many years and it occurred to me that I may be taking glutonous use of bandwidth for granted. 

Really felt like you were going somewhere!

Very good video.  It actually felt like you were going somewhere instead of in circles. And aside from a few "monsters" peering into tunnels, it was a great layout tour.  The "monsters" should view this video!  It might make them a bit more conscious about what they "do" in front of a camera!!   Did get a few good laughs watching.

Monsters!

Nelson, I got a good laugh at your comment.  One of those monsters *may* have been me (black coat, Notre Dame ball cap), but one was definitely a friend of mine (and my pilot for this particular run as he knows the layout much better than I).

In our defense, it was the iCar / Camera's first run, and, well, we couldn't help ourselves - we couldn't resist being knuckleheads for the camera ...   lol

As far as feeling like you're going somewhere, the Columbus Club has a very long run, and even though it passes through the same scene several times, it does a decent job of disguising it.  I've watched it several times, and still enjoy it!

External Walkaround of iCar

Hello folks,

Thought you would enjoy an external walk around of the iCar (as opposed to only on-track views), along with some comments and ideas I've formed in the time I've been using it.  There's also a photo gallery of the assembly in the first post that captures some of the things I mention in this video.  Enjoy.

There is always a way to improve something.

Matt,

Great improvements!  I hadn't even considered a derailment occurring and losing the iPhone to a drop through the bench work.  I wonder if the folks creating the iCar will see your working improvements and include these in a version 2 of the car?

I did buy one for myself.  I have not assembled it yet as my wife is traveling with her iPhone.  However, she is on to me about getting a 4s now.  She is not due an upgrade yet, but I am.  So, I am thinking that I might let her use my upgrade and I will get her 4 for myself.  Hmmmm, I wonder if I can pull that off?

I found an 8mp micro camera that records video and ordered it.  It is narrower than the road bed I am using for my N scale layout.  I got some ideas.

Den

Hi Den, I thought I had

Hi Den,

I thought I had responded to this a couple weeks ago - apparently not!

Your plan sounds reasonable to me, if the data budget allows it.  I'm also curious about the micro camera you ordered; be sure to post photos of it in place, - and of course it's video output!

Thanks for the comment on my modifications.  I've spoken to the designer about them, but I'm not sure he's convinced yet!

Matt

Doesn't have to happen

  I have to think that focal depth will become a real problem in the former situation, with the boiler being out of focus in order to see down the track.  You see a bit of that in my videos.  Perhaps software will come to the rescue with a version of focus stacking that is used for increasing focal depth in still photos (Helicon Focus, Combine ZM, Adobe products); run the train through the scene once with the camera focused close, then again with it focused further down the track, then merge.  You'll need a bit more storage and processing (and the software!) for that to happen though...

Actually, it doesn't have to happen at all. All the software needs to do is take one (or a few) in-focus pictures of the boiler (the loco) from its fixed perspective and substitute it for the out of focus blob right in front of it. It's not going to change until the camera is repositioned someplace else.

Order placed