Kadee Shelf Couplers VS manual ops

Dear Capt,

Admitedly I use "shelf type" couplers on tank cars, subway cars, and others where it's appropriate for _looks_ rather than function. Couple 2x shelf-couplers together and using things like kebab skewers can get a bit tricky, but it's never been a problem for regular or one-time/guest operators...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Shelf couplers?

The purpose of shelf couplers is to prevent derailed cars  from coming uncoupled by not letting the couplers bypass vertically.

If the couplers on your cars are bypassing vertically, you have other problems besides couplers, track quality, equipment standards, vertical curvature, etc..

I don't use shelf couplers, I am converting everything to KD#58's.  I model 1900-1905, what's a shelf coupler? 

I use them, but...

I only have shelf couplers on equipment that would actually have them like tank cars.  They don't seem to pose a problem with manual uncoupling, or at least I've never heard an operator say anything. 

As was already noted, shelf couplers aren't an answer to runaways on grades.  If you have sufficient vertical misalignment to cause uncoupling, it may also be enough to cause derailments from vertical pressure on the shelf portion of the couplers.

The other thing that can cause uncoupling are Kadee knock-offs.

Most of the manufacturers of r-t-r rolling stock put various brands of couplers on their models from the factory.  Intermountain is the only one that I know of that advertises using Kadee exclusively on their models.  I have found that if I put one of those cars on a train with as few as 10 cars, if the car without Kadee couplers is near the front of the train on straight and level track, the weight of the train will uncouple the non Kadee couplers.

Check the latest ExactRail ad in MRH

The Jan ExactRail ad in MRH also lists Kadee couplers as the current standard for their HO rolling stock.

Thanks Joe.

I've bought a few exact rail cars and really like them.  I did not intend to slight them in any way.  I just noticed that on my Athearn 50 foot ice bunker reefer that I had to put it just in front of the caboose on a recent module operation in order to keep the train coupled reliably.  My conclusion is that the Kadee couplers are engineered much better and built of much better materials than any of the Kadee knock-offs made by other manufacturers.

Re: Russ

Yes - Kadee clones are bad news for random uncoupling, and yet another thing to consider.  The plastic shank varieties can deform under tension from a heavy train and twist apart.  This problem is more severe on cars where a longer portion of the shank protrudes from the draft gear box.  For example, I noticed my Athearn Genesis F-89F flatcar was exhibiting marked deformation of the coupler shanks, which only exacerbated the issue of its coupler height being at the high end of the tolerance range.  It was coming uncoupled in some test runs, so genuine Kadees were retrofitted, stopping the problem.  I noticed the same thing with some Red Caboose 57' reefers factory equipped with plastic couplers.  If the OP has some problem cars with plastic couplers, eliminating them might solve the uncoupling he describes.

Using Skewers with Shelf Couplers

Thanks everyone!  I'd like to know if there are major difficulties using the skewer method to uncouple shelf coupled cars in a yard. A few of my tracks are a "tich" closer than the standard 2" separation.  I've been told that a more horizontal approach, pushing on the "air hoses", etc. is required. I was also informed that in a Model Railroader article in the past showed a wire uncoupling device that was made to take the place of the skewer.  So... that's the kind of "anecdotes" I'm looking for. 

Thanks again,

Jim

Depends on coupler type

I fit Kadees to all my stock most have 58's. My tank cars have shelf couplers, I find the scale shelf couplers are easier to uncouple than the larger ones.

I run 70' cars on 4% grades, with no problems. I make sure all couplings are the correct height, have not too much vertical play and that the gradient changes are smooth and over about a cars length.

Mike Ruby

Short answer, No probs

Dear Jim,

Short answer, no problems here uncoupling using the skewer "insert from the top between the knuckles and twist" method.

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS I second the comments RE mixing Kadee and "other" knuckle couplers. If at all possible, for reliable train-handling and couple/uncouple behaviour, don't...

A bunch of the guys in the modular club built some from the MR

"I was also informed that in a Model Railroader article in the past showed a wire uncoupling device that was made to take the place of the skewer.  So... that's the kind of "anecdotes" I'm looking for."

article.  They used a 3 inch section of 12 inch wood dowel with a small hole drilled in the end grain of one end.  An @ 4 inch piece of piano wire is then glued into the hole in the end of the dowel, and the other end of the wire is bent into a "Z" shape.  You can stick it between the knuckles and twist or use the "Z" to reach under the coupler and pull the trip pin apart to separate the couplers.  It is probably the best hand tool I've ever used for uncoupling Kadee couplers by hand.  I have not had time to make one for myself, but plan to one of these days.  

Thanks Russ. The poster on

Thanks Russ. The poster on the MR Forum, that "hipped" me to the existence of the article was really helpful and gave me a description of their use, but you clarifed a few things for me.  I inted to go with ALL Kadee couplers as soon as my a-builiding layout is going to be run fairly consatntly, which is...soon!

Jim

Off-the-shelf couplers

Horace Fithers tells me you have to take couplers off the shelf and install them on cars or locomotives before they work proper like...

Charlie

shelf couplers

Although I've never coupled shelves together, I have used shelf couplers on my tank cars......

They're KD 118, double-shelf, whiskers.  I don't like trying to use a skewer.  I just don't have the dexterity for it, or maybe I need a whole lot more practice.  I may try making the wire one mentioned above.  I either have to unhook by moving the trip pin, or take 'em off the track and start what is a horror show of alligator wrestling with them.  Magnet uncouplers work fine.

I also have a Rix magnetic uncoupler tool which works OK.  Much better than a skewer.  But I tend to lose it in my toolbox, and skewers are everywhere.

So, IMHO, they look awesome especially when weathered so they show up more, but it takes a bit of the right touch to uncouple them without a track magnet.

Rix Uncoupler!

I use the Rix uncoupler exclusively on my layout and I have several of them "Staged" where appropriate!  As for shelf couplers, I have not used them but I am going to convert all of my tank cars to them. I don't cut the trip pins off as some others do so magnetic uncoupling works well for the most part.  If you are having random uncouplings, find the source.  Does it happen with the same car/ cars?  In the same section of track? Or when you have a lot of freight cars in tow.  (Longest train I run is about 15 cars)  My fleet of cars is about 95%  Kadee #5 equipped. Consequently, most of the trouble happens with the remaining 5%.  A Kadee coupler height guage is a must in the tool box.  

The probabilities

If there's a 1% chance of something going wrong, it will happen 99% of the time.

You can quote me on that.......

And, I will need to buy some more of those Rix magnetic uncoupler wands.

An old solution to uncoupling.

About 50 years ago, "toy" train sets always came with the NMRA-designed "X2F" couplers. If memory serves, these "NMRA" equipped trains never uncoupled accidentally. To find out why, I got a pair of these old couplers from my junk box and coupled them while holding one in each hand.  Guess what? It was almost impossible to uncouple them unless they were twisted. Looking closely at how they were configured, this reliable coupling was achieved due to a "shelf" molded into the coupler below the "knuckle" to accommodate the coupler trip-pins! These shelves also enabled trains to be pushed because they incorporated a buffer area.

We all know the derision these couplers unfairly received, especially when Kadee couplers hit the modeling scene. The NMRA couplers were ugly, but they were utterly reliable. Those engineers at the NMRA should have been congratulated for incorporation a "shelf" in their design that allowed for more than 1/8" of vertical freeplay without uncoupling. in addition, the uncouplers could simply be dropped anywhere on a track without causing problems. Finally, the old problem of interchangeability between different manufacturers' couplers was fixed. Mantua's hook-and-loop couplers quickly disapeared, as did Roundhouse's prototypical couplers that had virtually no ability to work as well as they looked.

So, we gave up a "Mature Technology" that worked perfectly for a "More prototypical appearance"? NMRA couplers never caused derailments either, thanks to their generous vertical play and slippery plastic construction.

Those fake Kadees whose shanks twist under load are not a bargain. The accountants at the factories that make these fakes probably forced the makers to reduce the thickness of these shanks to "enhance the profit picture". So now many "cheaper" fake kadees also droop when used in the standard coupler pockets because of the thinner shanks!

On the other hand, NMRA couplers had to be made to the NMRA specifications, which called for thicker shanks. The long NMRA couplers once used on Rivarossi passenger cars have shanks that are .075" thick! The short NMRA couplers on freight cars have shanks that are .060" thick, but don't twist because the shanks are much shorter. This is 25% thicker than the shanks on fake kadees, which are only .045" thick. The Kadee metal couplers measure have shanks that measure .057" thick.

Any questions? Go measure a few old NMRA's, real Kadees and Fake Kadees yourself because your results may vary from mine.

Trying some right now

Converted one train over.  Just got the special decoupling stick from Kadee.  There is a spot on the club layout that just "pops" long cars loose, but not shelf couplers.  Still testing, but I bought some more for my other passenger train with 80 foot cars.

I use them, they look great, work like they should

I am modern era, all my tankers have them, I also placed the 118's on my engines, though I wish Kadee made them without the top shelf.

They do hold a train together, you can't manually use the "Hand of God" but skewers and the Kadee tool work fine. I prefer the kadee.

experimenting with them on one train now.

The club layout seems to have a spot where long cars (passenger cars) uncouple every time.  I put shelf couplers on the train and got past the point, but had to stop because a coupler box came loose (I had super glued couplers - I need to figure out how to put screws thru that set.)

Exact Who

Shelf Couples and Operations

...

When you think about it, most of us are already running shelf couplers; we just don't call them that.  We call them Kadee #5s...

Huh?

Maybe I'm missing something here.  I always thought a shelf coupler was one with extensions on the top and bottom and which was designed to not come apart as a result of vertical coupler movement.  I've seen plenty of improperly mounted #5s come uncoupled because of height mismatch, and it's easy to lift a Kadee-equipped car out of a train.  So how, exactly, is a #5 a shelf coupler?