I don't have a lot of experience in this

Ken, I don't have a lot of experience in this, but from what I do have, is that the uncoupled cars will roll on those slopes. (I use Intermountain wheels as well).

I'd explore ways to have zero slope in that area - even if it means eliminating, moving, or making it an ever steeper slope for a shallower length.

Hopefully someone with more experience will chime in.

No grade at turnout location...

The grade/slope is in a section of town that has no turnouts.  The town is in a U-shape, with industries at both ends of the town on the straight sections of the U.  The grade is located in the curved section.  The "right-straight" section is shorter than the "left-straight". So the first 8-10' is straight and flat, then there would be 4' or 8' of curved track on a grade, and the rest of the curve and about 6' of straight and flat track again.  Hope this explains things better.

In addition to not having to worry about installing a "train brake" (i.e. a tortoise machine with a pin that moves up and down to hold a string of cars in place) I don't want to have to force crews to worry about where they uncouple cars to avoid the grade. 

Has anyone actually had success in using modeled weeds in between the rails to hold super-free-rolling cars in place?  That idea has been mentioned in other discussion groups as a possible solution, but as I recall, it was all theory, not based on actual practice.  Not sure what kind of material that would look like weeds yet stiff enough to actually cause enough friction to hold cars in place, without impeding performance of trains when running over them.

Ken L.

Weeds

"Has anyone actually had success in using modeled weeds in between the rails to hold super-free-rolling cars in place?"

A natural loofah (that vegetal sponge) can be used to make foliage. A well used one, ready for the trash, will be the better choice, because it will be flexible enough for the purpose. Make your weeds, put them in place and clip away just enough of it to make it hold the cars.

Love them weeds!

I, too have a small section of track in my Deer Hollow area with grade and my new wagon top B&O car wants to roll by itself in that section.  I love the weeds idea as it will solve my problem and look great - thanks for sharing!

Rick

Weeds, and calibrated drag devices

Dear Ken,

I have used the weeds trick before, and it did help. However, it required a significant degrees of "consistency" in the cars weights, rolling characteristics, details and underside clearance.

For shelf switching layouts and similar however, I use Kadee #5 centring springs as "calibrated drag devices", to assist with handling around Kadee uncoupling magnets, and the resulting behaviour has had the side effect of allowing controlled switching on shallow grades.

They were originally developed as power pickups, but this site shows the basic technique.

http://www.55n3.org/cars/tender_wipers/

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Grade?

Is the grade there because the floor isn't level or is the grade there because you want a grade there?  The floor being level should have nothing to do with the track being level.

Hmmmm

I'm not sure I'm seeing the whole situation here.  Will the main and passing siding through town be level, or is there a level spot where the local can leave its train while switching?  If so, the short grade into the industries may not pose a problem at all.  But...

Note that cars equipped with Intermountain and Reboxx wheelsets tend to roll freely anyway, and even more so after reaming the journals.  Sometimes they can get too free-rolling for their own good and require some kind of restraint to prevent run-aways on a grade less than 1%.  Locally, Lee Nicholas replaced most of the wheelsets on his Utah Colorado Western with Intermountain, and we started seeing cars rolling away from places where they used to stay when equipped with Kadee wheels.  There are now styrene "brakes" available for these locations, most of which appear reasonably level to the eye. 

Mentally "switch" the industries in question and think of where all the cars will be at each step in the process.  Is there a level place to leave everything?  As you're working back and forth into a spur, where will you stash the cars you pulled as you work the spots?  Will you have to shove them a long distance to avoid leaving them on a grade?  If you can see potential trouble doing so, you may want to rearrange some elements to avoid it or decide you can accept restraining devices of some kind.

Track elevation needs to change in town...

the problem is I need to split the town's elevation into two levels, and I just recalculated so the difference needs to be 2".  This is so I can can get sufficient vertical clearance with certain bridges in another deck.  I have had to tweak all the track elevations, and it's like a domino effect, once you start changing one, it effects everything else. 

Rob's idea of spotting cars on a level section is a route I was hoping to avoid, but if I have a grade in the town, I have little choice in the matter.  I guess I can't have every Druther I want! UGH

Thanks for the feedback.

Ken L

Multiple decks

Another example of why I don't build layouts with multiple decks. 

If I had a gymnasium...

....then it would only be ONE DECK! Believe me, I really dislike mutliple-deck layouts.  However it is a necessary evil if one is going to get the length of run and length of train one desires.  As I continue to point out in other threads, having 20 cars being pulled by a 4-unit set of F Units looks ridiculous! And YES a GIVEN is to use the several ABBA sets of F Units that I have in my inventory!

Ken L

Ken, I don't think even a 4% grade would be a problem.

If you use a steep grade leading to the spurs, could you then make the spurs themselves absolutely level?  The problem then is that if the mainline is on a grade, you may have problems dropping the train to service the spurs

switching on grade

I wonder if a magnet under the track ( not a uncoupling magnet) would hold cars in place.  I have seen uncoupler 

magnets pull cars together if they had steel axles.  It might be just enough to hold the car/cars in place.

Switching on grade

The magnet might work, but the IM wheels are brass, non-magnetic.  You would be relying on the steel weight inside. 

If it is possible, make the spurs so that cars would roll away from the main.  If that doesn't work, in 1:1 scale we use derails to keep the main clear if something does get away.  Steeper places have split-point derails, pretty much a switch that will set an errant car into the dirt, away from the main. 

For cutting the train off on a grade, might have to look into something like a pushpin between the rails, or some sort of chock.  That is if the cutting off happens on a downhill area, such that the train would roll ahead.  If the train would roll back, some other solution would need to be found.  Setting handbrakes is an important operation when cutting away from a train, and it looks like it should be modeled in your circumstance. 

There are some places-situations that require cutting the train a bit farther out of town, to avoid blocking crossings, signal system limitations, etc.  If the cut happens in the same place all the time, one of those hill-holder wire deals could be put in, along with a sign stating "Do not leave cars beyond this point" or something similar. 

setting the brakes

I agree with Rob that some of these new R2R cars are just too fast and will roll on even a "flat" surface. Unless you are using laser levels and assembling your benchwork with military precision, you probably have very slight grades on some of your "level" areas.  I also have a few industries which reside on a grade on purpose, in order to fit more switching opportunities into my smallish layout.

Here's where we can actually model "setting the handbrakes". A couple folks have already mentioned "mountain brakes" or "train brakes" whether they be using a piece of wire or modelled weeds. I'm planning to install these in a couple of locations, and have them pop up from under the benchwork when i turn a small wheel (one of those cheap faucet handles). I'll try to post a sketch of the design later today.

So far I've just been using a temporary solution like sticking a small stick between the ties or sitting an eraser on the tracks, but even this rough solution does add an aspect of realism - brakes are a prototypical reality.

- Ken - Great Western Trunk & Pacific

Hill holders on spurs w/grade

In old HO club, we had these spurs at some industries; used cheap, small, round artist's paintbrushes. After handle was cut off and only metal ferrule/brush tuft remained, small hole was drilled between ties at exact spot tuft would be on downhill side of spotted car's axle. Hole was small enough to give tight fit to ferrule. In this way, tuft could be tweaked vertically, until desired hold was achieved. And, if necessary; ferrule can be hit w/flat paint, if it's visible and too shiny. Tufts can be trimmed a tiny bit, to make them work better. They never gave us any trouble, looked like weeds, were cheap to make, lasted a long time, allowed us to forget about spurs that weren't level. My 2 cents.... Tom

Paint brushes - love it!

Tom,

I love your idea about using paintbrushes.  I've put in some Woodland Scenic tall weed tuffs but they aren't very stiff and don't hold that well.  I'll give your paintbrush idea a try.  Thanks!

Rick

switching on a partial grade

Ken

   On our club layout we have a number of spurs on grades and were able to solve the "runaway" problem by using some 10# or 20# fishing line to hold the cars.

   Drill a hole using a small (wire gauge) drill between the rails. Then CA a short piece of the fishing line in the hole. Since the fishing line is clear, it is very hard to see and therefore seems invisible. A little bit of weeds or grass make them even harder to see.  Keep out of the way of the couplers and cut the line so it slightly higher than the wheel axles but shorter than the trucks. The normal freight car (properly weighted) will pull over the line with no problem.

   A number of these where needed will do the trick plus it is a very cheap fix.

Al

fishing line and paintbrushes

These are both great ideas and a lot easier than what I was thinking of; I may still use a "manual brake wheel" for one spot which has a pretty steep grade, but i think these "weeds" will work for most spots

Mechanical grade brake

The June 1978 Railroad Model Craftsman has an article about adapting a switch machine as a braking device.  Basically the machine is mounted under the benchwork and the throwbar pin is activated to move up or down between the rails, engaging and releasing the pin (which is retarding the car axle).   Then again, why not drill a hole between the rails halfway through the roadbed and use a round toothpick?  Not as elegant as the switch machine but cheaper.

Glad to scan the article and send if you don't have access to the issue.

Happy New Year.

Switching on a grade

I have a switching turn that has to leave cars on a 2.5 grade. I use a caboose fitted wheel wipers for lights. This will hold 4 or 5 cars on the grade while the locos are switching a level spur.

Here is the train backing down the grade

Here is the spur behind with the grade at front

Mike Ruby