What is the elevation of the yard?

How much clearance do you want between levels?

How thick is your benchwork?

Typical max grade is 2%.  That works out to about 2" rise for every 8 feet of run.  So if you want 16" of separation top of rail to top of rail you will need 64 feet of run to get there.

Based on your plan, you have about 12 feet from the yard to the solid pink line.  At 2% grade that is about 3" of elevation.  You have about 15-16 ft around the loop, that gives you another 4 in of separation so a max of 7" of separation less the thickness of your benchwork.  1/2" plywood plus a 1x2 support is about 2" think so that would leave you 5"of clearance above your tracks.

If the lower deck is a staging area and is not a scenicked area, then as long as you have enough space to get your hands in to work on trains in the staging yard, you are good to go.  If the lower level is a part of the layout featuring scenery, then you need more separation between the levels.

You have the room to throw a couple turns into a helix where it turns back - this will be the most practical solution to your problem, I think.

For clearance between levels, 16" is more than enough.  The yard would sit at about 30" from the floor.  Benchwork is 1/4" plywood from the yard storage area and will then run into 2" foam by the time it hits the 46" mark.  2% is the ideal grade to get from point A to B, just this is all the room I have to work with.  I just need a starting point-where to start the first point and how many inches do I go up from there.  For the base of the layout I am using 3" strips of 5 ply plywood-3/4 thick I believe

There is no scenery for the lower part-just a place to park the trains

And I have no interest in a helix for this layout-I am doing a return loop and that is what I will be going with

I created two excel sheets for track planning that might help you in your problem.

Curves gives you the distance by radi of any given curve

Grade gives you a handy rise over run with % of grade.

Email me at and Ill be glad to pass along a copy.

kk4ej@yahoo.com

"For clearance between levels, 16" is more than enough. The yard would sit at about 30" from the floor. Benchwork is 1/4" plywood from the yard storage area and will then run into 2" foam by the time it hits the 46" mark. 2% is the ideal grade to get from point A to B, just this is all the room I have to work with. I just need a starting point-where to start the first point and how many inches do I go up from there."

16" at 2% grade is 64+ feet of run.  Sixty Four Feet.  If you have a 16 x 24 foot room that is almost a complete lap around the perimeter of the room.

"And I have no interest in a helix for this layout-I am doing a return loop and that is what I will be going with"

As I said before if all you are going to do is use the return loop drawn, then the most you will get is 7 inches, less the 2 in of foam, less whatever supports you have for the foam or less whatever wiring and switch machine linkages that extend below the foam.  Pretty much the only way to orient the layout with the footprint you have drawn and more than 7 inches of separation is to do a helix.

Since the lower level is just a hidden staging yard, there is really no need for any foam or roadbed under the track.  Put your track directly on the plywood for staging.  It may be a bit noisy, but hopefully you will spend more time running a train on the layout through scenery than you will running through the staging yard.  Since the staging yard is intended to function as "hidden" staging, there is really no need for the sort of separation that you would use if the lower level was complete with scenery and used as part of the mainline run.  I would recommend using multiple Atlas rerailing track sections on each staging track to help keep trains from derailing.  I would put one rerailer at each end of every staging yard track and one at each track coming back up to the main layout, so if a train derails going through the yard throat, it has a chance to rerail itself before coming back up onto the layout.

Hey Dave,

I am new to the whole thing about elevations and helix.  I really don't have the space for the helix-if I did my wife would not have a place for the dryer.  I just need the trains to get a way from the below storage area to the top.  There is the choice of using wood land scenics risers, the sections here would be built to incorporate the loop, and I am using a domino method for bench work.  There will be no switch machines that go below the benchwork, as most will be on top or manual throws.  I know from working on my older layout I was forced to have to go with a helix-it never happened due to a move, but the smallest with 28" radius was a 4.5x4.5' pattern.  the space between the two only has to be enough for clearance-I have no intermodel or enclosed auto cars, and enough space to get to the trains if need be.so if I can work with 8" that is fine to...even 12 inches

A local hobby shop had a display layout that had a 4.5% grade from staging to the layout.  The locomotives didn't look good going down and they may have needed an extra power unit to get up, but it worked reliably. 

Another idea that occurred to me is to put the staging yard on drawer slides, and use dead bolts to lock the staging drawer in place.  If you need access to re-rail a train or change out cars on a train, you would just unlock the dead bolts on either side and slide the staging yard out.  I would put a re-railing track on both ends of the staging yard and on both of the tracks leading up to the layout.

Russ,

I like your idea of the staging yard on a drawer system.  Will definitely go that route for this part of the layout,  Thanks