RailPro

I have been doing some Google searches but have not found any reviews yet, I find opinions by those who have not used it yet. Below is one link to the company info. RailPro will not interact with any DC or DCC system, It is stand alone system. DC or DCC layout keeps the battery charged in the RailPro decoder.

You can try a search in the MRH forums. There is a little info.

http://www.ringengineering.com/RailProToDccComparision.htm

Rich

This is like RailLynx only wireless

RailPro is a direct-to-loco system like RailLynx, except it's wireless instead of intrared.

Direct-to-loco systems can run on top of anything - they just need power to the rails.

RailPro's interface looks pretty cool. It will run on DCC or DC, but you will need to install a RailPro receiver instead of a decoder and only locos so altered can work with the system.

RailPro at Trainfest

I came across RailPro here at Trainfest in Milwaukee.  And I must say I'm very impressed with it.

I'm still building my layout and have yet to purchase a DCC system ( I had planned on NCE ) but have spent the last several years learning about DCC systems (good and the bad) .   After using the touch screen style command console( similar to an IPhone ) it is so much simpler with quicker response than a DCC hand console, no CV's to pre-program. Everything is quickly programmed from the touch screen....speed steps, sounds, lights etc. AND you get a faster response to your commands.

Another cool thing is that the handheld can download any upgrades, loco sounds and loco photo's directly from your PC!  You can also have all your turnouts respond from the touch screen with the accessory command box installed.

The only down side is the decoders in my existing fleet of loco's will have to be replaced with RailPro's LM-1 receiver module.  I can understand someone(or group) that is deeply invested in a DCC system not switching over to RailPro ( too expensive!). 

This looks like the future of command control.

James S.

The cost seems to be an issue

It looks nice, but unless they allow other manufacturers to make compatible components, or make it work with DCC, I don;t think it will do any better than any of the other various command control systems that have existed over the last half century.

If it were cheaper than DCC, perhaps, but not for the cost.  Right now, the minimum cost for one engine is $400 for the controller, $100 for the receiver, and $270 for the power supply.  Even if you can do without the power supply, that's still $500 - more than twice what I paid to get started with DCC.  Also, there is only one receiver, and I can see that being difficult to fit into many smaller locomotives, as well as costing 5x as much as a basic decoder.

So my take is that it looks like a great idea that will never be more than a small corner of the market unless they take steps to be more competitive with the big players, DCC and analog DC.

It works with DCC....

Inasmuch as it ignores it's existence - it uses the AC power and then does it's own thing. You can be running a Railpro equipped locomotive all over a DCC layout - while simultaneously running DCC equipped locomotives through their system.

Working with and tolerating are different things

It's good to know that it can use a DCC booster for power, instead of requiring the RailPro power supply.  However, I have a hard time understanding why they would intentionally limit their operation.  It would not be that difficult to essentially make a dual mode receiver - one that would recognize and respond to at the least the most basic DCC commands.  That would allow a modeler to get in one piece at a time, instead of all or nothing.  They need to realize that their target market is primarily those of us with an investment in DCC already, and we're not about to scrap the equipment for a new and non-standard solution.  Cross compatibility would be a major benefit.  I'd probably buy one to see how it sounds, if it would work without the additional $400 expense of the controller.

I also find it a little off-putting the way they describe DCC as 20 year old technology, and why would you want that old stuff?  Guess they got rid of their cars, since who would ever want 100 year old technology for anything.  Of course, walking to work involves half-million year old technology, so I suppose they telecommute via the latest in telepathic communications technology.

Well, take a look

Hey Ken,

I hear what you are saying, but this is new, so I am sure the cost will come down.  as for the Lm-1 it will fit into just about any type of engine, as it's about the same size as most decoders out there now.  Now if you think cost is an issue, perhaps take a run over to yankee dabbler-they do have there link on the pages here as they are list in the magazine...I have not started my new layout yet, but have already ordered my system, and will be doing it in payments, because of my financial situation at present.  But needless to say I look forward to this system, and I do beleive there will be an article on that subject coming up in the magazine shortly

Size matters

• Ring Engineering LM-1 - 2.03" x 0.69" x 0.28"
• Digitrax DZ125 - 0.418" x 0.340" x 0.112"
• Digitrax DZ143 - 0.36" x 0.55" x 0.13"
• TCS M1 - 0.57" x 0.36" x 0.13"
• Soundtraxx TSU 750 (Micro Tsunami) - 1" x .5" x 0.22"
• Soundtraxx TSU 1000 (Tsunami) - 1.68” x 0.68” x 0.25”
• ESU Loksound 4.0 - 1.18" x 0.61" x 0.22"

In other words, the LM-1 is roughly 4x as long and 2x as wide and thick as the power only decoders I typically use in HO.  It is also 1.3-2x as long and roughly the same width and thickness as the comparably priced sound decoders.  That hardly qualifies as "about the same" in my opinion.  Before anyone argues that it is unfair to compare a feature-rich LM-1 to a bare-bones DZ125, remember that that is the choice in some cases - basic DCC for $20 and a tiny decoder, or RailPro for $100 and a much larger receiver.  Having tried to find space for even these tiny decoders in some engines, I cannot see how I would fit an LM-1 into small diesel switchers or even smaller steam locomotives.  Also, I find it interesting to note that I cannot find the amperage rating for the LM-1 anywhere.  With the exception of the Micro Tsunami, all the decoders above are rated at at least 1A continuous.

I don't really have a dog in the fight.  I doubt I'll be converting to RailPro any time soon.  I just feel the need to point out BS when I see it, and a lot of what is on the RailPro site seems like BS (or at least advertising hype) to me.  I mean, come on - saying that the LM-1 has "DirectRadio, protection features, and more that are not found on DCC modules" is just silly.  Of course it has features not found on DCC modules - it isn't DCC!

I hear you..

Ken, I even called the company just because I had a lot of questions...but I did get them answered.  I had even had asked about the size of the unit in relation to other decoders.  So I was told I should not have any issues.  SInce my smallest engine is a MP15AC I am not sure how it will work in there...since the unit is a DCC, I do have to do some gutting to take out the decoder in there, but the size could also explain the sound unit built in to the LM-1 since all you need to do is plug in and wire to the speaker and you are pretty well set to go.  So time will tell where it goes, I mean the only reason why I am jumping from DCC is that I still have some engines that are DCC ready, although just shy of half are dcc, but since I lost my digitrax system, and I want to get my wife involved too, it seems after doing my homework, the tis is a much easier interface to work with and I don't have to worry about some of the other issues with dcc like playing with cv's and consisting.  But I would love to keep you updated as I work with the system.. I am in the process of building a website, and will have it all on there...I will have it by mide next year, as I still have to get started on the benchwork-)

Like it so far...

Well...I contacted Traintek LLC and they have no problems installing in all my large diesel loco's( E7-E8-SD7/9)

and medium loco's( GP7-9-Alco RS-1 GP 35).  Their will be issues with smaller switchers such as MP-15 and

H10-44 FM, SW 9  etc.  Tim at Ring Engineering told me a second smaller receiver is on the drawing board.

I spent over an hour talking to Tim and playing with RailPro at Trainfest and really liked it.  As I stated in my earlier post, I think someone that has been using a traditional DCC system for a long time it would be expensive to switch over.  But for someone who has yet to invest in a DCC system this is a different alternative.   As for costs....I planned on buying a radio control version of DCC anyway and the cost is about the same.  Remember at RaiPro's web site prices are full retail.  For example, here's what I found at Traintek LLC:

RING ENGINEERING RAILPRO HC-1 HANDHELD  $299.95

RING ENGINEERING RAILPRO PWR-75 POWER SUPPLY $202.95

RING ENGINEERING RAILPRO LM-1 MODULE  $74.95

So for startup it would be about $503 .   I was planning to spend $549 for a NCE radio system plus $44 for power supply unit.

It will be a task having the LM-1 module's retro-fitted in all my loco's, but thankfully this is just a hobby and it can be done over time as funding permits.

James S.

I spent an hour on the phone

I spent an hour on the phone with Tim this last Friday. I have been researching a power/command/supply whatever you wanna call it for the layout. I have been out of the hobby for a little over 20 years, and in that time it has changed leaps and bounds. So in my homework doing I've come across a wealth of information. Taking in the pros and cons of each system. I realize that this system is new and like most things new it will be met with resistance by some. I also realize that for one that has built their empire with DCC that this would be an added expense to what has already been laid out for their fleet. I had some sticker shock at first also. But then to me as I am with no system I'm looking at the BIG picture. I checked out cost wise to get a DCC system that would have most if not all the features as this one it was about the same. One thing that I like is that the module houses the receiver, sound, and lights. Another thing I like about the system is the ease of use of the controller everything is just at your finger tips. Actual real time info on your engine right there. You can even check the status of the power supply(ies) in your system via the controller, and the supplies can even be switched on/off with it also.

I'm am still looking for reviews written or even some videos to pop up to really get a better idea of the use of the system and how well it operates. I just visited the website again, and as I was told on Friday the turnout controller is being made available soon.

Faster Info Distribution

Dear MRH team,

I see a number of posts saying "I called them and spoke to Tim for an hour..."

This would seem to be a slow way of dis-emenating information which a number of potential buyers of the system apparently need.

Anyone know if "Tim" is a member here on-forum?
Any chance we could get this "hours worth of Good Information" documented and out there for all "potential buyers" to see?

The available info at the moment is "light on detail" at best,
and if people are "getting their questions answered by Tim", then it would seem like a no-brainer to me...

(As a Pro Audio Techsupport bod, my phone-time is charged at $150/hour, in 20 minute blocks. It _can't_ be a winning $$$ proposition to have "Tim" eating an hour at a time presumably answering the same "will your decoders fit in a switcher?" questions for one modeller/hour...)

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Count me out.

I would not consider using a system which was not compatible with existing DCC.  Even if I was starting from scratch, being captive to a proprietary system sounds like trouble.  You would have to hope the system catches on, so you won't be left stranded with orphaned technology, like Modeltronics or CTC-80 or Dynatrol users have been.  

It seems to me the sensible way of going about something like this is to be able to use both through the rails DCC and radio receivers, and have the command station be able to communicate with both.  Then if the radio becomes a popular alternative, it will at least be functional with your older equipment, some of which may not be large enough for the radio receiver.  If you can't m.u. radio and track controlled engines with the same controller, it's a non-starter for me.  I like the idea of on-board power supply, but this is not the way I would go about it.

I really don't think the hobby needs another divisive technology choice; it's taken long enough for DCC to catch on.

RailPro Demo Video on YouTube

Their is now a 2 part video demo on YouTube for the RailPro system:

Just watched the videos

OK, I just watched the videos.

I don't see anything that cannot be done with DCC technology.  Some things are not done in any commercially available system, but you could have spent your time developing a graphical interface that works with the DCC protocol and had the same results.  You could also have developed a radio receiver that sends a standard DCC signal to any DCC decoder, using battery or track power..  no wait, NWSL already has that.  The only thing you have, as far as I can see, is a fairly intuitive GUI.  Also, for what it is worth, I can turn on my DCC system, select a locomotive, and start switching just as fast or faster than what I saw in that video, even allowing for the fact that you played the horn and bell to show off.  Walk in, flip the layout power switch, press "loco"> 1006 and off I go.  No pre-loading of pictures or menus to follow step by step.

You make a point of showing how easy it is to consist two locomotives, and have them work together without fuss.  You state "Notice that the coupler stays tight."  Even when I watched the video in full screen at 720p, the quality is not high enough for me to see whether the couplers are tight or not, so I have to take your word for it.  This reminds me of the rest of the data on your site, which is in most cases "this is great, trust me, but I don't have (or don't bother to share) any hard data to prove it."  Besides, BEMF, transponding, and properly speed matching ahead of time will do the same job nicely.  Remember that any argument about the difficulty of speed matching is not an argument against DCC, but rather an argument against the user interface.

What I am seeing is a bad case of throwing the baby out with the bath water.  There is nothing inherently wrong with the DCC protocol.  There is no need for yet another proprietary command control system that will last only as long as your company does.  You have valid arguments about the readily available DCC user interfaces, but you use them to argue against DCC itself.  The argument is invalid, which leaves me questioning the motives and/or sense of the arguer.

RailPro

I have to tell you after watching the vids the RailPro system is attractive. Looks incredibly easy and intuitive to use. And it has a knob! A big metal one at that.

I will be in the DCC decision and purchase mode likely right around this time next year. Lots of layout construction work yet to go before DCC. I had been leaning towards Digitrax radio with NCE in a close second place and only a mild interest in RailPro. The vids may have jumbled that order for me.

I have 23 locomotives 8 of which have factory installed Atlas decoders. All the rest are DCC ready. So the field is wide open for me as to what decoders go in the locos. Without the preexisting investment in DCC hardware and decoders RailPro is making more sense in my case if for no other reason than just the ease of use. Plus I absolutely love the automatic speed matching function. Distributed power looks like tons of fun with RailPro.

The only real glitch I see in RailPro is cost. Each throttle is another $400. Should my layout evolve into one with many operators that could get quite pricey. The decoders are $100 a pop. This forces sound eqip and the related price regardless of whether or not I want sound.

I will be watching RailPro's evolution over the coming year.

RailPro Pricing

Remember at RaiPro's web site prices are full retail.  For example, here's what I found at Traintek LLC:

RING ENGINEERING RAILPRO HC-1 HANDHELD  $299.95

RING ENGINEERING RAILPRO PWR-75 POWER SUPPLY $202.95

RING ENGINEERING RAILPRO LM-1 MODULE  $74.95

Looking for Ring Engineering Items

Please go to the sponser Yankee Dabler  http://www.yankeedabbler.com/.sc/ms/cat/All-634--251

Talk to the guys there

Battery and large scale questions

I was just thinking about something...

In large scale, there is no consensus about control protocol, as there is in the smaller scales.  People run track power, battery power, radio control, DCC, live steam, and any number of creative variations of all of the above.  This system would fit in nicely and be competitive with other LS system prices.

Is there any reason why it would not work with battery power, instead of track power?

What is the effective range?

What is the maximum peak/continuous current capacity?

I'm thinking this might be a useful thing to put into a small Fn3 engine I'm working on.

Latest MRH Podcast - Interview with TrainTek about RailPro

Check out the MRH Podcast - the latest episode is an interview with TrainTek about the RailPro system.

MRH Sponsors TrainTek and Yankee Dabbler sell RailPro.

link not working

Wish to watch, but link not working

It's an MP3...

Dear Nathan,

It's an MP3 (sound, no pictures),

try this...

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/sites/default/files/podcast/MRH11-11_01.mp3

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Thanks!

Thanks Joe for posting the podcast. It was very informative in regards to this new system.

Railpro not in a peergroup

Reading this thread, I'm reminded of the early days of 'personal computers'.  Apple had a better product, but a "closed architecture."  The Intel-chip-based manufacturers were very open about how to program, and other stuff.  So Apple grew at the size of one corporate engine, and the IBM-Intel branch of technology grew at the rate of all the players.  Clones were welcome.  Does this model carry over to Railpro?

If yes, then what others have posted must be true.  Railpro needs to allow others to compete, or their product will remain very, very niche, and will never enjoy the economies of scale.