RAGC

I am beginning another conversion of an old Tyco Mantua 4-6-2 Pacific.  These locomotives are very good runners and very common at the big auction site, in unbuilt kit form (I've bought two for less than $30.00), built kit form, or factory-assembled form.  They are based on northern US prototypes, so a good deal of modifications are necessary to convert them to my "not-totally-prototype" Southern US layout's standards. A change of pilot, and cab is required (the Tyco/Mantua cabs are way too short!), and a lot of filing of the cast metal boiler to modify the catwalks and replace the under-detailed appliances and piping is needed, but the results can be astounding, even for a non-finicky modeler like me.  A replacement of the 12 wheel tender would normally be in order, but this time I am converting it to the original sylvan green and gold Southern Railways Crescent Limited Ps-4 Class locomotives of the 139x series, which pulled long-haul tenders.

I am halfway through the rough filing of the boiler at this time.  I have yet to begin cutting into the catwalks.  I found an old "junk" boiler to file so I can keep the model's original boiler unmodified.  I will post photos of my progress periodically.  I am starting with an example of my previous Tyco/Mantua Pacific conversion, a loose copy of a specific GA RR locomotive which I modified much less intensely than I plan on the current project, and my old Bowser Pacific which I built as a Ps-2 or 3 20some years ago...

 

 

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So here we go..!

Reply 4
RAGC

Shaping the boiler - starboard side

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Starboard side catwalk gone!  

 

Still in rough shaping: removed the cast Worthington feedwater heater, rail stanchion blisters, generator, pop valves, power reverse, external throttle, air tank, check valves, airline piping and flat catwalks.  All of this will be replaced with correct brass detail parts.  Still left to remove: port side catwalks and appliances, the cast headlight and bracket, the sander covers, the last stanchion blister close to the cab, the molded injector piping close to the cab.  To be added: new stepped catwalks, power reverse sander valves, check valves, Elesco feedwater heater with oil separator and all piping, non-lifting injectors, generator, bell, marker lights, headlight and bracket, new air tank and airline piping, whistle, boiler-mount bell, and builder's plates.  Additional rivets will be added to sheet brass laminated to flat firebox sides.

Reply 2
RAGC

Boiler shaped!

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I decided to leave the sander covers on, even if not strictly prototype.  I had filed them off when I converted the GA RR Pacific (see first post) but I like their crispness and will keep them for this one.  All other non-essential detail is gone now, and the boiler is coated in Floquil grimy black.  This super-flat paint lets me see where more shaping is necessary, and where file scratches may be visible. It is not intended as a final coat.

Next step: new stepped catwalks.

Reply 2
RAGC

OK, changed my mind...

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Decided to stick with the prototype on the sander valve cover after all.  This was helped by the realization that Southern put striping and numbers on the sand dome, which would not have fit if I kept the covers.

 

 

 

 

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And now... the fun begins!

Reply 2
RAGC

  Before any detailing can

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Before any detailing can take place the mechanism has to be put together.  Here the motor is being run-in to ensure no binding and smooth operation.  I still run DC, thus the kit's open frame motor, not insulated from chassis... fine by me! My electronics consists of a diode array for reversing constant lighting, in the tender.  No sound, no fancy stuff.  If DCC is desired, the motor must be insulated from the frame.  The thickness of the insulation will require that same thickness be filed from the motor mount for the worm gear to mesh correctly.

Next: the valve gear!

Reply 2
RAGC

Pilot goes on

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Boiler tube pilot by Cal-Scale, with Kaydee  in coupler slot.  Standard coupler height gage used to ensure good function.  Air hoses will be added later, with the rest of the plumbing.

Reply 2
RAGC

Valve Gear Installed!

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Breaking in the valve gear: 15 minutes in each direction...

(and yes, the trailing truck is upside down!)

Reply 2
RAGC

Catwalks up, and ready for appliances!

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Catwalks are per prototype now: all body shaping is finished, and model is ready for detailing.

Reply 2
wp8thsub

Cool

Great to see all the craftsmanship at work in a project like this.  Looking forward to more...

Rob Spangler MRH Blog

Reply 2
RAGC

Thanks!

Yours was the first reply..!

I'm open to suggestions from all, realizing from what I've seen that I'm in the company of my betters in this website.  That is one of the reasons to put this blog together.  The other is to drum up interest in steam era modeling.

 

 

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Pilot steps and shelf.

 

 

 

Reply 2
Dave K skiloff

I enjoy looking

but I'm not a steam era guy and what you're doing is beyond my limits at this point. But still nice to look at. Don't be discouraged if you don't get many replies, there are probably lots of lurkers like me enjoying your posts.

Dave
Playing around in HO and N scale since 1976

Reply 2
dfandrews

I'm watching

I'm another watcher.  I've got a couple of old Mantua loco's that may be candidates for future projects, so I'm very interested in all that you do, especially the "challenges" you encounter and solve.

Did you do anything special, in particular, to tune and break in the mechanism?

Any suggestions you have relative to drilling or tapping into that old cast metal would be appreciated.

Thanks much for posting this project.

Don - CEO, MOW super.

Rincon Pacific Railroad, 1960.  - Admin.offices in Ventura County

HO scale std. gauge - interchanges with SP; serves the regional agriculture and oil industries

DCC-NCE, Rasp PI 3 connected to CMRI, JMRI -  ABS searchlight signals

Reply 2
Russ Bellinis

I'm also a "lurker" regarding steam.

I model the Santa Fe, and since steam engines were often "custom made" for each railroad, you would need an expert on Southern Railroad prototype equipment to really give you useful advice on the model.  I have quite a bit of prototype information on Santa Fe steam & diesel, but I can't help you with Southern.

Reply 2
RAGC

More very soon!

Dave:  Not discouraged; I can see the number tally on the first post when I check in.  I am used to two-way conversation (I am a moderator in a photography group elsewhere - those people sure can talk!), so at first it has felt very "quiet" around here!

Thanks for keeping an eye out even if not a steam guy!

 

Don: The most important thing for break-in/running is good riveting.  I use the Bowser rivet tool to rivet the valve gear.  A couple of taps with the point/cup side do a lot better than the Mantua instructions to use a small pick and then to flatten the flare with the hammer: some rivets cannot be easily reached with the hammer by itself, plus the hammer head is too large! The joint can be snug: I loosen it by exercising it, then I oil all the joints with a fine machine oil, (the wheel axle bearings too) and the worm gear with silicone grease. I then just follow the Mantua directions and run for half an hour, 15 minutes in each direction.

The Mantua/Tyco zamac is very soft metal.  I just use a pin vise and drill it as if it were wood almost.  Brass is a LOT harder: I drill a hole clear through my headlights for the bulb, and that one takes time and effort. It is pretty easy to file down too, but shaping can be difficult and tedious because of detail you want to keep that gets in the way.  There is a step on the right side below the sand dome that I hit repeatedly with a diamond file and now have to restore.  Cutting the catwalks with the molded air tanks and power reverse was the most difficult, as the zamac is very thick.  I did it with a very small hacksaw for the cuts along the boiler, with an X-Acto saw perpendicular.  I hardly used the Dremel, as it is easy to loose control.  I had to use it on the sander valve covers just because reaching them with a straight file is so difficult.

 

Russ:  By far my best source for the Southern Ps-4s is the old Steam Locomotives Cyclopedia by Lynn Wescott, published by Model Railroader, and now out of print.  They document almost every locomotive type for various roads, with beautifully detailed drawings (in HO scale) for each type/road covered.  An example can be seen on the photo of the half-filed boiler at the beginning of this blog.  From it you will appreciate why this is an "almost prototype" job: Tyco/Mantua's boiler is about three feet longer than the Ps-4s, and cutting it down might have affected the frame's length, something I don't want to mess with.  There is a second volume of the Cyclopedia, covering the diesel locomotives up to a certain year. It has all the same lovingly detailed photos and drawings and diesel modelers would enjoy it greatly.  Both volumes can be found in the big auction site, the second being rarer and more expensive.

I also have three other books with good information and photos on the Southern Railways, and several on the Central of Georgia and the Georgia Railroad, the other lines I model.  These have side view photos of each type that are helpful when used in conjunction with the Cyclopedia.  The Cyclopedia also has a great introduction explaining the workings of all systems on the locomotives, with additional diagrams and piping options.

 

 

 

Reply 2
RAGC

Pilot done!

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..except for the broken step on the right... which I noticed in this photo!

Reply 2
sjanninck

Awesome!

You are an inspiration! Great work. Even better photos to take us for the ride. I am not worthy. Regards, Steve J.
Reply 2
Tanblu

Blue Comet conversion

I'm in the middle of a similar conversion of a  Mantua pacific to a CNJ Blue Comet.  (G4)  I used the original pilot which took a LOT of work. Should have changed it. I think I've gotten most of the boiler details removed & the walkways changed. just need to install the detail parts. I picked the engine up on Ebay for a good price, it's the new Model power version W/ the can motor & flywheel.,..runs great.  How did you install the new walkways? I ground a slot w/ a carbide bit put the walkway in w/ ca & filled the rest of the slot w/ JB weld.  Seems to be holding. Not looking forward to the feed water tank & associated plumbing.   Good luck w/ yours. Looks Great.  jerry

Reply 2
RAGC

I'd love to trade info!

And see your results!  I did the opposite on the walkways, but I like your idea.  I shaped the walkways to the boiler shape, and CA'd them.  I have accidentally knocked one off already.  My original thought was to drill into the boiler and insert brass "rods" to support the walkways from below.  I may go back to that, as I can then keep my shaped walkways, but secure them better..

If you look at the Georgia RR conversion at the beginning of this blog, the steps from catwalks to pilot were cut from the original pilot: the only part that survived!

The Elesco Feedwater Heater went well on my other Southern Pacific as I recall (it was a long time ago).  I expect it to be good, but then the plumbing is my favorite part... 

 

 

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Some paint thrown in to see the whole better.

Reply 2
Benny

Mechanical Fasteners..

Drill and post really is best, but it mean's you'll need some precision to your setup - a drill press, for example, is divine!

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Benny's Index or Somewhere Chasing Rabbits

Reply 1
Scarpia

Are you planning

Are you planning on replacing the smokebox cover?

 


HO, early transition erahttp://www.garbo.org/MRRlocal time PST
On30, circa 1900  

 

Reply 1
RAGC

I am lucky

I have a great drill press (and the rest of the shop).  :-D

 

I am adding a headlight bracket and visored headlight, and a boiler-mounted bell.  It is the same I did for the GA RR conversion, is the Southern RR standard, and I find it adds sufficient detail to disguise the zamac boiler front casting.

Reply 2
Russ Bellinis

I have both of Westcott's Locomotive Cyclopedias.

I'm glad to hear vol. 1 is comprehensive for the Southern.  It is woefully inadequate for the Santa Fe.  He featured a lot of types of locomotives, but since the Santa Fe had virtually nothing like what anybody else ran, the only steam engines in there that I remember as Santa Fe prototypes were the 4-8-4's in the high 3700 series and the 2900 series and the 2-10-4 5000 "Madam Queen."  I think there may have been some 2-10-2's but not nearly every class of 2-10-2 that S.F. had.  Fortunately, I have the "Worley book" Iron Horses of the Santa Fe Trail that includes photos of virtually every class of Santa Fe steam built since 1900, as well as line drawings in the back of the book giving basic dimensions.

Reply 2
ocalicreek

Outstanding work!

This is tremendous work!  I alternate back and forth between layout construction, structure projects, and engine/rolling stock detailing projects.  Watching this thread may shift me back towards the engine project sooner than later...

Ditto on adding rods to support the catwalks.  Either rods or epoxy (rather than CA), or both.  I soldered a pair of brass strips bent into U shapes to the mounting lugs on the back of a brass power reverse, then bent the strips to mount them beneath the running board.  I cleaned the area with alcohol then used super glue to attach it.  I figured with 4 brass straps flat against the running board it oughta hold.  Nope.  Popped right off while handling the loco to work on another area.  So I tried again with two part epoxy cement and now it's stuck!  I was afraid I might have to drill and tap for little pan head screws...ugh.  Not what I wanted to do at this stage of the detailing.

Okay...back to work!  Progress looks great!

Galen

Visit my blog, Gallimore Railroading, at ocalicreek.blogspot.com

Reply 2
RAGC

Headlight and bell

Thanks!  Today I worked on re-installing the catwalks using the drilled rod method.  It worked well.  Then I used the few remaining minutes to mount the headlight bracket, Pyle headlight with visor, and boiler-mounted bell.

I wouldn't say Wescott's book is 'comprehensive' for Southern, but it covers the Ps-4 Pacifics in detail.  My other books; especially Wiley and Wallace's ​The Southern Railways Handbook  are much more comprehensive, but without the great line drawings of Wescotts' tomes.  They do have a wealth of photos, rosters, manufacturer's lists and dates, etc.

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I need to go back and do the steam hoses on the pilot, and then on to the check valves, sander valves and pipes and sander dome handles, feedwater heater, all it's lagged and non-lagged piping, oil trap, and pumps.  That all connects to the non-lifting injectors and back up the boiler to the starter valves, piped into the steam turret.  Then the whistle, pop valves, generator, rails and marker lamps to finish the boiler above the catwalks.  After that rivets on the firebox sides done in punched thin brass, airlines, air tanks, power reverse, and stoker engine.Then cab hatches and rails...  tender, diode array, lighting, paint, brass builder's plates on the smokebox, decaling, weathering, coal, crew... and file off the silly points on the axles of the leading truck!

Reply 2
pipopak

Riveting

In the good olde days I used to put a piece of paper between the two valve gear parts to be riveted, then rivet the usual way (tight but not jammed) and, after removing the paper, end up with a proper working set.

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Reply 2
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