Controls

I'm using machines for mainline turnouts, and Caboose Industries throws for SPURS and most other tracks.  You wrote "sidings," but that would be the double-ended tracks for trains to meet or pass, while spurs would head off to the industries.  I don't have any sort of lighting or other electrical indications for operators to see turnout positions.  Most layouts where I operate don't either, so the lack of such things doesn't seem to impede operations.

The Caboose Industries throws are durable and reasonably cheap, but of course aren't scale representations of anything.  One day I'd like to replace them with something more realistic, but hit them with a bit of weathering and they may blend in OK for now.

Caboose Industries

Caboose Industries ground throws are all I use. Gives more hands on when running. You may want to try the N scale throws to give a more scale appearance.

CI 216S + wire-in-tube

Dear Train, Ken,

I've personally standardised on CI 216S (N scale) throws for all HO and On30 missions. However, the solution for me includes using brass wire-in-tube extensions, so that the throws can be mounted right at the edge of the layout fascia. This has a few key benefits:
- avoids the need for operators to 'reach into the scene' (detail-snag risk)
- still maintains "line-of-sight" orientation (easy to see which throw controls which turnout at a glance)
- avoids "out-of-scale" lumps directly next to each turnout (leave room for scale throw castings from DA/GL, etc)

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

CI 216S + wire-in-tube

Professor,

I am intrigued!  Do you have a picture that you can post here of one of your installations?  Also, can you tell me more about the CI 216?  I can't seem to find this particular number.  I really like your idea of wire-in-tube with the throws near the edge of the layout.  A short hedge or bushes could hide the throws from the camera's lense while making it easy for the operators to use them.

Rick

Wire-in-tube

I have some Caboose Industries throws with the wire-in-tube connection to the turnout as well.  You can see four of these throws mounted on the edge of the layout here:

Thank you, Rob!

Rob,

Thank you for posting the picture of the wire-in-tube and your other posting.  I'm loving the Caboose Industries idea with the wire-in-tube.  O.k.....now, what guage wire do you use, and what size tube?  Thanks!

Rick

216S, Prof's ground-throws

Dear Rick,

A quick look round my harddrive only provides some relatively "log distance" shots of the remote groundthrows on my "Brooklyn : 3AM" layout

Note in the case of the turnout nearest to the camera, there is

- brass wire-in-tube
- the turnout
- AND a Kadee 308 undertrack magnetic uncoupler

all mounted at the same position, and working fine

I have another layout in "pre-tracklaying" stage right now, which has the "tubes" glued in place, ready for the "wire", the turnout, and the groundthrows. Will try and see if I can get some up-close pics of them tonight, if needed...

BTW, the 216S must be an older (discontinued?) model,
a quick glance at the Caboose Industries site suggests the 218S as the most appropriate "direct replacement"

http://www.cabooseind.com/index2.php?page=GroundThrows

Hope this helps...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Wire-in-Tube (W-i-T) wire size?

Dear Rick,

I must admit I've never particularly measured! I've just headed to the nearest hobby shop (not necessarily train store!), that stocks K&S brass with a CI groundthrow in my pocket.

Found the brass wire that was the "best fit" for the cast-in hole in the groundthrow throwbar
(with a tendency to opt for the "slightly larger" over the "slightly sloppy" size, if it gets to that,
a few quick/careful twists of the point of an X-acto knife in the hole will open it up enough to take the wire),

then grabbed the "sleeve sized" tube to match.

Will check this evening, believe I have some "ground throw w-i-t stock" that I can get to reasonably quickly for measuring...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Thank you, Prof.!

Thank you for the pics and information.  I'm going to go your route with the W-I-T and Caboose ground throws.

Rick

Tube/Wire Size

I used tubing with a 1/16" outside diameter, and whatever spring steel wire at the hobby shop that slid freely in it.  I'm not sure what the exact wire size is.

I lean toward...

I lean toward the Caboose Industries sprung ground throws if they can be reached without danger of damaging scenery. And it is the least expensive and easiest to "upgrade" if needed. Also they can be installed with very little effort.

I use them where I can reach. Paint the throw to show direction green for straight and red if in the thrown position.

Personally if I had to do it over I would try N-scale if they are smaller.

N Scale Caboose Industries Ground Throws on HO layouts

I like the idea of using the smaller N scale throws; however, I notice that they have a shorter throw (.165 for N scale as opposed to .190 for HO.)  Will the N scale have enough throw for the HO turnouts?

Rick

Ground throw

I think N scale will be too little throw for you.  If you have a digital caliper, it would be easy to measure.  You never mentioned if you need to power route your frogs for reliable DCC operation, which would change the game a bit.

Peter

Ground throw measurement

Peter,

Thanks for the suggestion - I'll check it out.  I won't be doing power routing, so the caboose should be fine.

Rick

another W-I-T approach

N scale throws in HO, O scale even!

Dear Rick,

Yep, the 216S/218S throws work just fine with HO turnouts from PECO, Atlas, and handlaid.
Dang, I even used a 218S my O scale SG handlaid turnout...

The "S" on the end of the part # indicates that it has over-travel springs to take up the _excess_ throw the groundthrow has, (IE the throw is trying to push _beyond_ the capabilities of the turnout).

Given that the 0.165" throw of a N scale throw is _excessive_ compared to a stock PECO or Atlas turnout,
the 0.190" throw of a HO throw must be massively overkill...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS tech tip: when installing the throws (assuming the turnout is already laid and solid in place)

- set the groundthrow "arm" straight UP/vertical, so the throw is "mid throw"
- Using scrap styrene or stripwood, chock the switchrails such that they are "mid throw"
- bend/form/tweak the "wire" inbetween so that the groundthrow winds up at the desired distance from the turnout
- anchor the throw in position (Pins, nails, or glue, or some combination thereof)
- let it set (assuming there's glue involved) for at least 24 hours

This will ensure the groundthrow "throw" and the turnout "throw" distances are sync'd up, and everything ends up where it should when the groundthrow is thrown one way or t'other.

Curtain rod, Under or Over the module?

Dear David,

Does the curtain rod travel Under the subroadbed, or Over(on top of) it?

Does it connect to the turnout throwbar
- directly on the top-side of the subroadbed material

OR

- Underneath the subroadbed material, via some vertical rod extension?

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

But, what if the ground drops away?

Dear Rick, Ground Throw fans,

In reviewing the posts thus far, I realised we're all assuming the "ground" between the turnout and the groundthrow is relatively level and flat. But what it it's not? What if it drops away, following a mainline-style ballast profile, or worse, disappears altogether?

Unfortunately I don't have any photos of it, but a logging show layout I was involved with a few years ago had a HOn30 turnout mounted on a trestle, so _no_way_ to mount a groundthrow, either on the trestle without looking like it obviously didn't belong, or "at the layout edge".

The _solution_ ended up being
- mount the trestle and trestle trackage
- run the brass "wire in tube" thru the _backdrop_ which was maybe 6" behind the trestle itself
- paint the tube black
- and install the groundthrow behind the backdrop, where the staging area for this particular HOn30 route "punched thru" the backdrop into hidden staging.

The "on-stage" tubing was invisible in the shadows and detail of the trestlework,
and mechanically it worked a treat, reliably sending a train "onstage" or "to staging" as required

Moral of the story, as long as you can build a plausible platform for the groundthrow, which does not mevchanically move relative to the turnout, the W-i-T technique can span significant gaps!

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Control Rods

Hi Rick

I was cruising the Dallas Model Works site and happened to see these.  I don't know anything about them, but thought I would pass it on.  They are for Blue Point Controllers and kinda expensive, but could be modified to fit anything I guess.  I can't post links from this computer, but here is where to find it on DMW's site.

Manufacturer:  New Rail Models

Flex Link™ Starter Kit

N scale throws on HO switches

N scale throws do not necessarily work on HO turnouts.  I've found several that I had to convert to HO because the N scale size did not have enough throw.  Atlas, Walthers and Shinohara come to mind.  These are all older manufacturing runs as I have been hand laying switches for 10 years or so.

This can be corrected by changing the throw bar and shortening the throw distance.  This is one of the steps I take when making an older turnout more DCC friendly.  Looks a lot better, too.

Terry

FlexLink(tm)

Jim,

The FlexLink(tm) will definitely work; however it looks like cost-wise it would be a little high as compared to the brass tube / spring wire solution.  Since most of my turnouts ground throws will be within 12" of the turnouts, I think that I'll go with the brass tube / spring wire solution.  As far as scale, I'm getting opposing information, so I'll just measure or try the N scale.  I definitely want enough tension on the points against the rails.

Rick

flexible curtain rod

Prof et al,

The points are operated by a lever (.025" piano wire) which pivots in a 1/16" brass tube about 3 ties from the throwbar.  Beneath the layout, i.e., on the plywood under the homosote, the lever then extends horizontally to the toggle switch (getting the lever length - about 1" on top and bottom arms - and the exact position of the  switch are the tricky parts).  Another piano wire .050" +/- runs from the toggle switch to the fascia, supported by the curtain rod material as required.  I  use Marr connectors as actuating handles - black for main and sidings, red for industrial spurs, and blue for yard switches.

It's not beautiful, but it's cheap, it works reasonably well, and I can easily power my frogs  - with 0-6-0 yard engines the last is essential.

If I can get my act together I'll get some photos.

David

ps I should add that two of my switches are about 6" above the level of the actuating handles.  In these cases I install the toggle switch as usual and rig a vertical brass rod with a lever at each end to make up for the elevation.  This I think is more or less a copy of a commercial product.

I use my own design fascia

I use my own design fascia mounted knob controls that I described in Issue 2 (Apr 2009) of MRH.

Charlie

Turnout versions, models?

Dear Terry,

I'd be interested in hearing specifically which models of Atlas and Shinohara turnout you've found with more than 0.165" throw, (IE don't work with the N scale 218S throws).

Have personally tested and used on show layouts over the last 10+ years:

- PECO HO Streamline Code 100 range
- PECO HO "US geometry" Code 83 range
- PECO HO Finescale Code 75 range
- PECO On30 Code 100 range
- PECO N Streamline Code 80 range
- PECO N Setrack Code 80 range
- Atlas Code 83(?) US geometry range
- Shinohara HO/HOn3 dual-gauge range

I haven't personally used, but have seen them used successfully with ME HO and On30 turnouts too.

Were the turnouts failing because
- the throw distance of the turnout was more than 0.165"
or
- the installation was such that the turnout was not completely thrown in one or t'other directions

?

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr