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This is exactly what  John Allen had come up with;  THE TIMESAVER.   Part game, part puzzle, part nighmare. 

The object is to switch a specific set or group of  cars to specific spots in the shortest amount of time.  The layout is purpously built and not simply thrown together at ramdom.   Do a search for Timesaver and  Allen in the same search / query.  Over in England they call it a shunting puzzle.  

My link is to a site that has a few examples and ones you can run from the computer.  It can get addictive, I got hooked.

Marc Fournier, Quebec

Switching

Have you looked at the small layout scrapbook?

Time Saver

I could do the time saver, but I was hoping for something just a little different.  On the small layout scrapbook, I came across Linn Westcott's Switchman's Nightmare.  I might try a little variation on that.  Its a perfect size and is different enough that its not plainly obvious its the Timesaver. 

Ness Street Yard

I have been a fan of Ness Street Yard.  I couldn't find the original thread but here is one from the MR boards that will get the idea through

http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/themes/trc/forums/thread.aspx?ThreadID=182757

Steve

Small/Compact single module switchers, doon't forget the 'Nook!

Dear Skil,

If you're searching for a simple switcher, that you can

- build quick,
- scenic nicely,
- have room to do _prototypical_ local switching,
- is simple enough for a 5yo to "get it" and have fun,
- and yet can keep grown men amused for hours,

why not try an Inglenook, or it's "proto-inspired" cousin, the "Proto-nook"?

You've already been directed to the Small Layout Website by Carl Arendt,

http://www.carendt.com

but some specific examples could be useful...

http://carendt.us/scrapbook/page103a/index.html#chicago-fork

http://carendt.us/scrapbook/page98/index.html#masterclass

http://carendt.us/scrapbook/page106/index.html#haston

http://carendt.us/scrapbook/page106/index.html#wingett

http://carendt.us/contest/vote/index.html
(a little smaller than you are asking for, but interesting concepts none-the-less)

https://forum.mrhmag.com/magazine-feedback-was-ezines-891776

Hope this gives some food-for-thought...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Switchman's Nightmare

I've always wanted to build Westcott's Switchman's Nightmare, but never have. I might build it in software (TS2010) and run it on that.

I found this interesting link about the Switchman's Nightmare on Byron Henderson's blog.

-Al

Puzzle vs. layout -- your choice

IMHO, the Switchman's Nightmare has much more potential as a layout simulating real railroading (in highly compressed form, to be sure). The Timesaver is a move-the-empty-slot puzzle.

Depends upon your goals and interests.

Exactly my thoughts, Byron

The Timesaver, to me, is just a game like one of those puzzles with the plastic numbers you have to line up.  I enjoyed playing on it on one of the links provided, but its not what I really want to build.  When I came across the Switchman's Nightmare, I saw a little piece of railroading that could be nicely scenicked and provide different switching scenarios and more long term interest.  I think this is what I'm going to go with, but I'll add six inches front-to-back and put a mainline at the back so I can also display all my Rapido passenger equipment.

I was also thinking, after seeing the Prof's post, that I'll maybe try to build it with foamboard as well as he demonstrated in another thread.  That would make it extremely lightweight and easy to move.

Thanks for all your comments. 

Industrial Switching

I think I have the layout that you're looking for. It is design by Scot Osterweil and it is 6' x 1' Perfect for transporting. The plan is in HO scale. In matter of fact I was so impressed by it that I am building it in O scale two rail for my club that I am in. Here is the link to it:   http://carendt.us/articles/highland/

It also came out in the "Model Railroad Planning 2005".

Here is a photo of my O scale version in the first stage of building it. Mine is 16 feet long by 2 feet wide. I did mine into 4 modules.

Nick, isn't that

essentially the Switchman's Nightmare?  I do like it, though.  I think this will be pretty much what I build now.

Control?

For locomotive control would you go with DCC or use DC?

DCC

It might be DC at first until I get a decoder in one of my HO locos, but the idea is to have it DCC so I can set the max speed quite low so kids don't try to race it around and I have time to cut power if it looks like they aren't going to stop.  Plus, the decoder will be a Tsunami so the younger ones can just blow the horn, ring the bell, etc. and still have fun.  I'll use the UT4D throttle for simplicity and mark the function #'s with clear pictures of what the button does (ie. bell, horn, etc.).  The Zephyr is just as easy to take along as my Tech4 DC throttle and just as easy to hook up as well.

Control

For a very small layout that will only operate one train at a time, the big advantage of DCC (multiple train control without block wiring) is not seen. However if you do plan to operate more than one engine independently within a small area, then DCC is a good way to go. Dividing a small cramped layout into blocks for two-train operation can get awkward and/or complicated.

So, for a small layout that only has one engine moving at a time, then DC or DCC don't require any fancy wiring. If you want all the special lighting and sound effects of DCC, by all means go for it. If you don't, and don't want the added cost of DCC equipment, don't let anyone tell you that DCC is the only way to go.

(Personally I'm considering building a small shelf layout and I'll probably go with DCC using an NCE PowerCab, but that's just my preference. My club also uses the NCE system and the PowerCab can be used as a regular throttle on a full NCE system. Whenever I build a full-size layout, it will definately be DCC operated.)

Its more than the switching layout

My current layout under construction is in N scale, but it is using DCC so I already have the Zephyr (and within 6 months or so, the UT4D and UR92) so the only extra cost for running under DCC is the decoder.  But my future plan for an HO layout will be DCC, so its not like I won't be getting DCC in them eventually anyway.  While there is no big advantage in DCC for a single loco layout like this, there still is the bonus of setting a max speed at a fairly slow pace to keep eager kids from smacking into cars or running it off the layout.  At this point, I'll be using one of these two locos for doing the switching (just happened to have these from doing my layout inventory!):

Your dimensions are perfect

Your dimensions are perfect for a Free-mo layout too. If you run a track down the middle and strategically place your turnouts, you could end up with the option to run one or the other. Check out the Minnesota Free-mo club and their modules page here http://www.mnfreemo.org/ I was inspired by some of their layouts when building my 2'x6' module.

Burt

For kids...really?

After reading some of these posts I have to question whether or not you're really serious about making this for kids.  I say this only because so many of the layouts suggested are VERY complex and were designed for adults by adults with logical reasoning and advanced reasoning in mind.  Is there an age limit you have in mind?  Late Elementary aged kids may be able to handle a timesaver but I'm not sure they'd enjoy it the way adults do, if frustration is fun.

That said, I built a timesaver and have had great fun operating it with my son when he was only 3 years old.  Then again I was doing the brakeman/conductor work and he was simply the engineer.  I even taught him some hand signals and we could switch a couple cars quite effectively.  He knew not to run it too fast and was great and creeping up on a coupler.  But I stress that it was a one-on-one situation in the quiet of our garage without the noise and bustle of a train show exhibit hall, and I had set it up before hand with only a couple cars to switch.  It mattered less what type of cars they were or where they went, just that he was running a train (with daddy).

If the goal is to make a switching layout for kids, I'd start from scratch and build it with them in mind, rather than adapting a plan designed to keep adults happy into something for kids.  Maybe spend some time really defining what the goals are and let that dictate the track arrangement.

When I made a layout for my eldest son, I designed it with what I consider some basics for operation.  I included a small two track yard, a passing siding, and two facing point spurs.  A train could leave the yard, make a few laps, then work the sidings from the passing track before returning to the yard.  But I knew this was my idea of operational fun and he would probably not use it that way...at first.  Sure enough, over a year has passed and he has had a great time 'scenicking' his layout and running trains, acquiring more rolling stock than the layout was ever meant to handle, but filling every siding with a train or cut of cars.  When he's old enough to read a waybill (this year he's in kindergarden) I may encourage some operations, but for now he has fun just making trains and watching them loop around his miniature world.  Plus, when Dad's layout becomes more operational he may want his trains to do the same thing.  If he never does anything other than run a train around the loop that's fine too.  I have hopes, but it's his layout.

Kids at a train show aren't going to have the benefit of time to acclimate to a layout - it has to be easily understood what to do with the track that is there right away, in other words, a quick learning curve.  Plus, you don't know what level of understanding or interest they'll have.  It will have to accomodate a broad range of interest and skill.  And a track along the back for Rapido cars is only going to invite them to say, "Can we run those?"

Just my 2 cents.  I don't mean to discourage you from the project, but I hope to spur some ideas to clarify and focus the work, and perhaps save some heartache and frustration.

For Kids Really?

I also wondered about the age of the kids and the complexity of the operations.  I was thinking kids might have more fun running a sound equipped train around a track with a set of crossing gates, through a tunnel and over a bridge. If you do have sound decoders, show the kids how to sound the horn etc. you'll have the most popular layout in the place.

Still, the switching layout could be a hit as well, simply because it's hands on.  If you go at it from the angle of the kids are the engineers following a conductors orders, that could be fun for them too.

In any event I think it's a great idea.  What better way to draw youngsters to the hobby.  You might even catch a few moms & dads while you're at it.

Yes, for kids... and me

Having been a witness to someone letting kids use a timesaver, it is easily done.  The "operations" for the kids will be a colour coded card on the car and a matching one on the siding where it goes.  Start with 2 cars to move around which will be dead simple for the kids.  They get to spot the two cars, run a train, blow the horn and ring the bell.  Its not over their heads to do and they will have fun just running trains.  If you get an older child (like say 12-16 or maybe even 30 or 40), then you can make the spots more challenging.

For me, though, building it will be more of an operations play time where I can do much more advanced moving of cars about.  This can be done on the same layout, like the Switchman's Nightmare.  Very doable because I've seen it done.  Finally, I wouldn't likely display the Rapido stuff at the show, that would be for my own purposes at home.  Still, I might do it at the show, but if it became a problem, I would just pack it up.

Good stuff, though, thanks for your comments.  The more comments, the more things to think about to make it better.

The modular club has allowed kids to run trains on the layout

at shows.  We have also gone looking through the crowd to find kids to run the trains if none were lined up to run.  Usually as soon as one kid starts to run a train, they get in line.  For the little ones, 3-5 years old, we will show them how the throttle works and have them follow a train around the layout, but we frequently have kids 6-12 who want to try their hands at running, as well.  Typically with the older ones we will have an Athearn Mikado, a Bachmann 2-8-0, an Sw or a "geep" and a caboose on the layout.  We have a number of modules with industries where we will have some cars spotted, and we'll have the first kid go off the main into a module where the cars are spotted and drop the caboose, make up a train including needing to run around some cars to get them behind the tender, and then pick up the caboose and take the train out on the main to the other side of the set up.  At the other side of the layout there will be a module where the cut can be dropped and then sorted into industry spurs.  Typically a club member will act as conductor and switchman directing the kids on where to drop the cars or how to make the pick ups.  The dcc system we are using is CV Products E-Z Dcc with the wireless throttles.  The only problem is that if the locomotive doesn't stop when the throttle is closed, there is a tendency to want to turn the knob tighter against the stop instead of moving the throttle on and then off again.  As a result, we sometimes have the potentiometer behind the knob get broken.  When that happens the throttle is tagged and esent back for repair.  We figure the cost of throttle repairs as part of the cost of sharing the hobby with kids.  Interrestingly, we have probably had as many throttles damaged by members who forget about the pot as we do kids who forget!    

Kids, Why Not ?

If kids like to play with trains they will do it right and operate it correctly. They might make some costly mistake, who hasn"t ??? I remember being 4 or 5 years old and my dad had a big layout in our second story of the house and back in the late fifties there weren't any DCC and everything was wired blocks and my dad was fascinated how well I ran and did the switchings. So if the kids have the desire they will be fine.

Go for it !!!!!!!!!!

Nick, Russ, couldn't agree more

There are those that refuse to let kids touch the trains, the table, the control, anything for fear of them wrecking something.  My dad let me play with his HO trains when I was 4 and showed me what not to do and I took very good care of them.  I did the same with my kids, and while they are now 13 and 11, they always took good care of the trains and learned about them in the process.  Running trains is FUN STUFF.  Why would we not let the kids run them?  If they break something, well, generally its fixable or it costs a few bucks, but I'd rather spend that money than deprive them of the pleasure of running trains.  And honestly, I've done more damage to the layout than they ever have.

Good thoughts - thanks!

The color coded idea is a great one.  This is the sort of thing I was wondering about, what sort of plan you had for instructing the kids, making it easily understood and managed.

There's a level at which operations are simple and direct and another at which some instruction becomes necessary.  I think kids like to know how things work and DCC is a natural fit in that regard.  At a show a couple years back I saw that in action on a Lionel layout using their control system.  There were actually 4 or 5 layouts behind a roped off area and kids rotated from one to the next.  There was an adult at each station to instruct the kids.  Since my son had handled a DCC throttle (MRC Prodigy Express) he took to it right away, although I don't know how much his prior 'experience' really had to do with it.  Still, there's a learning side that kids like.

On the other hand, too much information and the fun is lost.  Keeping it simple is the key and it sounds like you've got a good plan for doing just that.  Perhaps you could include two or three different rolling stock types with corresponding structures - tank car/oil depot, gondola with log load/log pile, hopper with coal/coal pile, etc. so the idea of trains moving goods to a destination is taught/reinforced.

Galen

Foam Board

Dave,

this months' RMC has an article on using a roofing foam board as a layout base. It seems the roofing version is much easier to work with, and is stiff enough to not need substantial additional support.  Maybe this might be a good thing for you to try once you're ready for construction? 

That's kind of my thinking, Galen

Along with the colour coding, the cars would be suitable for the industry they go to.  For example, a black tank car going to an oil depot or other industry, a green box car (I'm thinking of the CP Rail variety) going to a warehouse or other such thing, a red Canada grain car going to a grain elevator for loading or something like that.  I have to figure out what will fit nicely without overwhelming the size of the layout but can still be easily processed by kids.  I don't want to spend more than 30 seconds explaining to the kids what has to be done so I want it as simple as possible.  I have a few kids (my kids, a nephew's kids and a couple neighbour kids) that I can likely use for "market research" in developing its use.  I'm really excited about it, actually.