Neal M

I recently purchased some new HO scale Roundhouse (Athearn) GP38-2 and GP60 engines, their latest run. All five came with an NCE decoder installed from the factory.

I took the first GP38-2 out of the box, programmed it to the road number, and then called up the engine using my NCE Power Cab on a separate program track. At step 1, the engine takes off! No, it does not creep like it should. Okay, maybe I have a bad decoder? So I move on to the next engine, another GP38-2 and the same thing happens! I do this 3 more times and all 5 engines take off.

Since I know it’s an NCE decoder, I called up Ed @ NCE and while he was not familiar with the decoder Athearn used, he did give me some CV settings to check. After doing two factory resets and programming CV2, 5 & 6 per Ed, the results are still the same.

I reached out to Athearn and they want me to send them back. The cost to ship all 5 back would be very expensive and I’, sure the dealer would tell me the same.

Before I go that route, I wanted to see if anyone else has experienced what I have going on. Also, I’m going to see if they hard wired the decoder into the unit or used a drop in decoder. If the latter, I’ll try to put in another NCE decoder to see if the results are for the better. I’ll take shell off this week and see. Hopefully, they didn’t use double stick tape on the inside of shells like the last batch of Roundhouse engines. That in itself was major surgery, as the frame had the only way to change the couplers was to remove the shell to get access to the couplers.

Looking forward to see if this is a fluke or big issue Athearn has with these engines..

Thanks!

Neal

Reply 0
Richard Johnston

DCC only?

Is the decoder set to respond to DCC only or will it also respond to DC? Many runaways are the result of the decoder thinking it is being run on DC. It sees 12V and responds accordingly. In JMRI under "analog controls" select "NMRA Digital Only". I don't know what CV governs this.

Dick

Reply 0
Neal M

It runs on DC and DCC

Sorry Dick, I don't use JMRI. I've programmed many decoders on my programming track, so I have to use the tools I have...

Neal

Reply 0
wp8thsub

Try This

I've never heard of this issue with Athearn Roundhouse locos, so if it's widespread it's a new on one me.

Check the value in CV 2.  If the loco takes off too fast there could be a higher than necessary value that hasn't been corrected.  Also ensure that, if CV 116 (motor kick rate) is set to a value other than zero, that CV 117 (kick depth) isn't too high.  Having a large number in CV 117 can also result in the loco jumping.

Rob Spangler MRH Blog

Reply 0
Neal M

Rob, went thru...

Rob, went thru all of the CV values you mentioned as well... We're going to pull the decoder later this week...

Thanks!

Neal

Reply 0
marcfo68

. . .

Can you read what the value in CV29 is on these engines  ?

Marc

Reply 0
Richard Johnston

CV29

If you are still having trouble and not using JMRI, try subtracting 4 from whatever value you have in CV29. I believe that will disable analog mode. I suspect that will halt the runaways.

Dick

Reply 0
Neal M
Here's the update! It's definitely the decoders. I replaced the NCE 21 pin decoders they had in them with new NCE 21 pin decoders and the engines run as they should. I tweaked the CV's so the engines move slightly as they should on step 1. 

I'll call NCE and tell them I'm sending back 5 decoders that are no good!

Thanks to all who replied!!

Neal
Reply 1
wp8thsub
Neal M wrote:
I'll call NCE and tell them I'm sending back 5 decoders that are no good!


Before doing all that - have you tried the problem decoders in other locos?  While what you describe isn't anything I've encountered with Athearn Roundhouse, I HAVE had it happen with other installations where the problem was with the factory electronics not playing nice with the decoder.  Hard-wiring to replace the factory board, changing out the decoder for the same kind, or using a different decoder configuration (e.g.  8-pin vs 9-pin vs 21-pin) resolved the issue with the loco at hand, and the old decoder worked perfectly well in another locomotive.

Rob Spangler MRH Blog

Reply 0
Neal M
Why would I? If they don't work as originally installed, and I replaced them with the EXACT same decoder from NCE and they all run fine, that tells me its the decoder. If the new decoders I installed worked like the other decoders, then I would say its the board on the engines. Also, before I removed them, I did factory resets twice to see if there may have been a programming issue with the same original results.
Reply 0
wp8thsub
Neal M wrote:
Why would I? If they don't work as originally installed, and I replaced them with the EXACT same decoder from NCE and they all run fine, that tells me its the decoder.


I've just had a few situations where a decoder won't function in a particular locomotive (despite resetting, reprogramming, etc.), and works fine in another.  Electronics can be odd at times.  In one case the loco kept running away.  The same decoder that went haywire in that loco was swapped to another, and has been completely fine ever since.

Rob Spangler MRH Blog

Reply 0
Neal M
Rob, I did what you suggested after I took them out of the engines. I put them in a different engine and the decoder did not function properly. Definitely a bad decoder. This was the process of elimination of bad engine motor, motherboard in the engine or decoder. Decoder lost...

Neal
Reply 0
Larry of Z'ville
So your saying that you got five bad decoders that all have the same symptoms.  Interesting.  Were these all acquired from the same place in the same shipment?  

So many trains, so little time,

Larry

check out my MRH blog: https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/42408

 or my web site at http://www.llxlocomotives.com

Reply 0
pzahnley
Resurrecting an old post because this is a repeated problem.

I also have a new run Roundhouse GP60.  Tried everything to get that factory installed NCE D16mtc decoder to respond to programming.  Unlocking never worked.  Factory reset never worked.  Gave up and dropped in a LokPilot and it crawls beautifully.

Now the question is do I contact Athearn or NCE?  I’d like an exchange for a working decoder.

Thanks all-

Paul
Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr
Dear Paul,

First questions:
(Asking because if you don't answer them when asking for assistance here, you'll definitely be asked them when you approach a Manufs support arm)

- what DCC system were you using with the "misbehaving" decoder?
(Yes, that says "system", as most manufs want to eliminate the extra stage of JMRI Programming Abstraction from the signal path during diagnosis. They support their products, not "JMRI issues").

- were you using the Programming Track or "Program on Main" (POM) mode?

- was the decoder equipped with any form (factory or aftermarket) Stay-Alive/Keep-Alive/Current-Keeper?

- what was the Specific "Factory Reset" procedure you used? 
(Hint: MRH Search with term "DCC Shortcuts Card")

- did you Power-Cycle the decoder after attempting the reset?

- did you try both the NMRA stock "Address 3" and the Factory Roadnumber when attempting to gain-control/provoke response from the decoder?

The answers to the above may help you nut out what went amiss, or at the least have your ducks in a row before requesting Manuf Tech Support.

Happy Modelling, 
Aim to Improve, 
Prof Klyzlr 
Reply 0
pzahnley
Prof-

It's a Sprog3 running JMRI Decoder Pro.  Using the programming track/service mode.  No keep alive/capacitor.  I set CV30 to 2 to factory reset.  No change there.

The odd thing that might of stalled unlocking it was CV15 does not show in the CV tab.  CV15 should be set to 16 to unlock.  There is a dedicated lock page for that CV and it was set to 16.  Then, I could program the speed table and the locomotive would flash and respond as if it was being programmed. I thought we were there.  After a power cycle nothing has changed.

What is also interesting is that Athearn's next Roundhouse release which is a GP40-2 does not offer a DCC equipped model anymore. Maybe there was an issue with these.

http://www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=GP40-2+RND&CatID=THLD


Thanks for the help.

-Paul
Reply 0
blindog10
CVs 15 and 16 are usually both set to zero.  If they do not match the decoder is locked.  Or am I misunderstanding something?

Scott Chatfield 
Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr
blindog10 wrote:
CVs 15 and 16 are usually both set to zero.  If they do not match the decoder is locked.  Or am I misunderstanding something?
Scott Chatfield 
TCS has an excellent PDF outlining CV15 / CV16 locking, inc template default values for various types of decoders. 
https://docs.tcsdcc.com/wiki/CV_15

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr 
Reply 0
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