duckdogger

Attempting to program a 21 Pnem Version of the V5 using the latest Lok Programmer. I have downloaded the manual, but I find it cryptic at best. I found the previous versions fairly straight forward and logical. The new version is not.

What am I missing or did I download the non-USA version in error?

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Prof_Klyzlr

Let's approach from the other direction...

Dear Duck,

FWIW, I tend to find the Decoder Manual more helpful in navigating the LokProgrammer Software UI Re _decoder_config_ tasks, and can't actually recall reading the LP manual to any significant degree... *

...said another way, what Programming Task/Mission are you trying to achieve/are getting hung-up on? If we start with a firm idea of what we're trying to achieve, the "how do we get from here to there" tends to become evident... (or at least shed some light on "what to look for next, and where")

Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

Prof Klyzlr

PS there only seems to have been 1 edition of the "LokProgrammer REFERENCE Manual", circa 2009, although there may have been multiple (3?) versions of the "Quickstart Guide". Do you have the file name of the "cryptic" manual and the previous "non-cryptic" one?

https://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/instruction-manuals/lokprogrammer/

 

* IF however, you're seeking to create your own Sound Project with User Sound Files, or a complete Scratchbuilt decoder profile, then yes, the LP Reference Manual will become simultaneously both your bible and your personal flail...

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duckdogger

@prof Klyzir

Thank you for the response. I have since fumbled my way through the programming process utilizing the trial and error process. And part of the issue was my conversion to 100 percent Soundtraxx over the past 3 years. Not a quality or motor control influence but soley the availability of the equalizer utility in the Soundtraxx.

I am still searching for the volume controls for the prime mover, horn, and bell. And I may have looked at them but did not recognize them as such.

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Mustangok

Lok volume CVs

Duck,

I am running two V5 21 pin decoders and one with the V5 micro.

In each case I had to find volume controls within the spec sheet that accompanies each sound file download on the ESU website.

For example, on all three of my EMD diesels the horn volume CV is 275. Bell is 283. Prime mover is 259.

They are paged CVs so CV31 must be set to 16, then CV32 to 1 before calling up the volume CVs.

Other locomotive sound files may not match this exactly, I don't know, but that is where to find them.

 

Kent B

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Prof_Klyzlr

Thoughts...

Dear Duck,

In order of appearance:

Quote:

 And part of the issue was my conversion to 100 percent Soundtraxx over the past 3 years... soley the availability of the equalizer utility in the Soundtraxx.

I hear you! I have only gotten into Loks relatively-recently because ST don't fully-support NMRA-spec CV27 Braking, specifically Asymetrical DCC Braking,  which is critical to my current show layout build...

...although we can't let Matt H from ESU USA off the hook after the tease (Ahem!) that "EQ could be added to the V5 family" back in 2019...

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/37113
(Yes Matt, One more time for Absolutely Elimination of Doubt, We STILL Want EQ!).

Quote:

I am still searching for the volume controls for the prime mover, horn, and bell.

In the LokProgrammer GUI:

"Decoder"  tab --> "Sound Slot Settings" --> "Sound Slot Configuration"

Then click thru each of the "Sound Slot" entries in the list,
and note the L<> R "Volume" slider, located directly under the "Preview" button...

_Volumes.png 

Things to note/observations:
- Having to manually click/select each soundslot to access the individual Volume controls for each noisemaker,
rather than having them all presented on a single screen like an Audio Mixer is, um, annoying

- It also makes it more-difficult/less-intuitive to create a MIX of the relative volumes, 
as One can't grab/adjust the appropriate "Volume Faders" at the Speed-of-Hearing

- Even if One could get all the "Volume Faders" on a single GUI page and "play them like a cheap violin",
the changes are not Realtime in response, as opposed to if changed in "Program on Main" mode directly with an NCE PowerCab or similar.

You can "adjust the relative volume faders" all you wish,
but the values then need to be written to the decoder in a "Programming pass" to be actioned...
(The key to a great many "Sound Design and Mix" missions, both in Model RRing and elsewhere,
is to enable Realtime Adjustment and Feedback of Changes. Indeed, even Realtime Blunt Un/Muting of individual Noisemakers can be greatly useful when hunting "bad elements in a mix").

- NB that the Master Volume is located on the "Sound Settings" sub-tab,
as opposed to the "Sound Slot Settings" sub-tab...
(because, it's logical to a software engineer, but slightly counter-intuitive in the context of "creating an Audio Mix"...)

I hope this helps,

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

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duckdogger

@Prof Klyzir

Thanks again for the info. I think I can finish this project now!! What a relief.

 

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duckdogger

@mustangok

Thanks from TX.

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Dave K skiloff

Individual sound adjustment

When I first saw the sound slot settings and how everything was listed and easy to adjust each piece, I was very pleased, until trying to adjust them within context of the others.  Prof, it sure would be nice to have a mixer type way of making those adjustments as you say.

Dave
Playing around in HO and N scale since 1976

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Mustangok

LokProgrammer

Oh. LokProgrammer. Yeah.

I'd like to retroactively change my recommendation to what the prof said. Thank you.

That is, if a man is determined to use the smarter simpler way.

Kent B

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JC Shall

DecoderPro?

I'm only following this thread "casually", but wonder if DecoderPro might be more convenient to set the individual sound slot levels.  Here's a view of the tab labeled with the catchy title Sound Levels.  This screen is scroll-able to reveal all the sound slots.

d-Levels.jpg 

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Prof_Klyzlr

LokProgrammer, if One must...

Dear Kent,

Pls don't mishear me, the main reason I went with the LP screenshot was because Duck mentioned he had the LP, and was struggling to find where the settings were within the LP software GUI...

Personally, 99 times out of 100, I'll be reaching for the NCE PowerCab long before I go thru the effort of:
- unearthing my LP interface unit (or whatever USB<> Host-DCC system I'd need for JMRI)
- getting it out of box
- wired-up and powered-up
- connected to a laptop with the LP software installed
-...Oh, and then maybe getting to actually changing the 1-or-2 CVs I was thinking about tweaking...

...which means I'm very much with you in that "having the Manual handy, and being-comfy direct-programming Indexed CVs" is a worthy and valuable skill to develop for the active DCC user.
(Seem to recall George B, Techsupport for ST, provides all support in "direct CV" format,
as he focuses on "deterministically configuring the decoder", 
not troubleshooting a software programming rig or the user's ability to use said-rig appropriately...   ).

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS Those with a "Programming Track Unit" with the USB interfaces and track permanently setup might find it faster to setup and use, but the plugging and configuring a PC/laptop for each use-session is still a timesuck...
...I've been working on building my own with a different, slightly "science experiment" integrated PC Host,
so we'll see if I can solve this problem to my own satisfaction...

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Mustangok

LokProgrammer as reading comprehension

Dear Prof,

I'm with you with regards to both direct CV programming and how many maneuvers it takes me to put a LokProgrammer into action if I start from the box it's kept in.

My comment was really to kind of marvel at the fact that Duck makes it crystal clear in the first sentence that he is using a programmer, and I still managed to skim right by that without noting it.

 

Kent B

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Prof_Klyzlr

...we've all been there...

Dear Kent,

Not the first time I've "missed the key point" in an OP message before either, and certainly won't be the last... 

Happy Modelling,
Aiming to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Reply 0
MikeHughes

In my case, Decoder Pro is the only option

Because I have been unsuccessful in procuring a Lokprogrammer. Maybe they need a chip that is part of the shortage, but so far they remain unavailable.

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jimfitch

I heard about the chip

I heard about the chip shortage early last summer and ScaleTrains still had some Lokprogrammers in stock so July 1 I ordered one.  By August they were out of stock and still are.  But there may be some vendors who still have them if you poke around.

.

Jim Fitch
northern VA

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Dave K skiloff

LokProgrammer Setup

If I was home, I'd post a picture, but because I model in both HO and N, I have a plank with about 2' of both HO and N track wired into my LokProgrammer at the end.  It sits at the back of my current worktable, permanently attached to a dedicated old Laptop.  Because the slowest part is starting the laptop, I turn it on then get the loco and put it on the track and by then, its just about fired up.  I like to keep my programming changes in profiles on the computer, so I always make my changes on the LokProgrammer and save the profile, both for backup and reference.  I can certainly see if you didn't have a permanent setup how much of a pain it would be.

Dave
Playing around in HO and N scale since 1976

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