zona jeweler's saw

Congrats! Looks really good for a first effort, I had a lot more trouble getting nice small solder blobs than you seem to have.

For gap cutting I use the Zona Jeweler's saw sold by Fast Tracks ($20). Now they sell it with a 'free' pack of blades, when I bought it they didn't and I soon had to order a pack separately from amazon. The blades break pretty easily, especially when you are still learning how to use the saw. It has a nice thin kerf. Fast tracks has a video on how to use it, you have to turn the turnout on its edge. They use a vice, but I just carefully hold it with the straight side of the turnout down against the workbench with one hand while I saw with the other - no doubt that makes breaking blades easier. After I got my technique down the blades last longer. I think I also am putting the blades in backwards, but it's the way that works best for me. 

If the gap size bothers you, you can fill it in various ways with something non-conductive. There are various techniques, we've had threads on that you can search them out. I had success with a caulk product like liquid nails.

You can't use the jeweler's saw method if you are doing a full-hand lay in place on the layout, so I think more people use the dremel than use the jeweler's saw, and then either put up with the larger gaps or fill them somehow.

On most of the turns I've built, I skipped cutting the gaps on the diverging side of the frog. When I eventually lay the turnouts my plan is to insulate the joints where those rails connect to the flex at the end of the turnout. That simply makes the polarity-switched frog section longer. Since any waiting train would have to stop short of the frog anyway, I don't see it as a disadvantage to have a longer polarity-switched section. But I still use PCB ties in all the standard slots in case I want to go back later and shorten the frog section.

Jeweler's saw with a different blade

I'm using a jeweler's saw (I got the Knew Concepts one), but with a different blade. Toothed blades are a rather unpleasant experience, although they work. The problem is that the teeth hang up on the sharp web and/or rail head. Instead, I use a diamond blade, which I find to be a much more pleasant experience. It's basically a piece of wire coated with very, very small synthetic diamond dust. They are vastly more expensive than the typical toothed ones ($7 each compared to $6/dozen) but they seem less likely to break. I've got exactly one.

thin cuts

i use these discs.  they are very thin, and will break when you are not careful, but they are very thin and you can hardly see the cut.

https://dental.keystoneindustries.com/product/ultra-thin-disc/

be sure to wear safety glasses.

bill

Jeweler's saw?

What insulating material do you guys put in the very thin gaps the jeweler's saw leaves? .....DaveB

Thin Cut Off Discs

Hi VSOTTO, 

I've recently been using the jewelers saw (regular teeth) that EW and CandOfan referred to. Very thin kerf, but they can be tedious to work with due to having to thread and unthread the blade through the track work to do the cuts.  You also need a solution for doing work when the turnouts are in place, which means a cutoff disc. 

The downsides to the Dremel discs is (as you noted) the wide kerf and they put a lot of heat into the rails. In some situations, that heat can loosen the nearby solder connection. Jeff Otto of Oak Hill Track Supply posted on a track detailing Facebook group about thinner cutoff discs from Dedeco. He recommended .009" thick. Wide kerfs can be disguised, so the real advantage to the thinner disks (to me) is that since less metal is being removed, there's less heat generated. They also cut faster (even less heat generated). I've so far only used them on a few cuts, so their durability is TBD.

https://www.dedeco.com/browse/105/Traditional-Separating-Discs/

I picked up the .009" and .015" (in case the .009 turn out to be too fragile). For comparison, thinnest Dremel discs are .026" and 43 TPI Zone jeweler's blades are .014".  In the image below, the .026" Dremel is on the left, followed by the two Dedecos. (CandOfan, the diamond blades sound interesting).

As an aside, clean your rails and ties to a bright finish where you intend to solder. Even new rail should have steel wool run over them. Dremel wire wheels, and (if needed) chemical strippers (lacquer thinner, alcohol) can also get the mung off. A clean joint will be completed faster, you use less solder yet get a stronger joint. 

I've recently started drawing my ties and rail bases over 220 grit sandpaper to clean them, which also roughens them up. The theory of the latter is to give a more aggressive mechanical bond, but the reason I started doing it was to give pathways for the solder to wick under the rail when building them in place (see the "bleed" to the outside of the rail in the second photo). This is most applicable when building without a fixture since Fast Tracks fixtures elevate the rail slightly over the tie, which leaves a small gap for the solder to travel under. This pathway is the key to a strong joint with small solder fillets.  

Matt, thanks for the great

Matt, thanks for the great tips.

so far nothing

I haven't put anything in there, but it's small enough that a little bit of glue would surely stop any potential contact, if that became necessary.

thin gaps

 I was thinking one might use insulating paper like they used on steam engine driver rims in the old days.  I haven't tried the paper though , I've been cutting gaps with a dremel disc and adding thin plastic in the gaps. I don't like to leave them open as I've found track can expand and close a gap......DaveB

A friend of mine saved the plastic "bread clips" found on

bread wrappers.  They are styrene, and easy to glue in with solvent type cement.  Once the solvent evaporates, cut the clips close to the rail and then shape it to match the rail profile.  Finally, when done paint the plastic black.  If the clip is filed off slightly below the rail head, the black won't be worn off from track cleaning or operations.

If it becomes necessary...

...by which time, it's too-late...

(Try playing "find the closed-up-iso-gap" in already-laid + weathered trackage... :-(   )

Better to install isolating material as the "default S.O.P." and completely head off any potential issue before it even has a chance to happen...

(Insert Boy Scout motto, "5 P's", "belt n braces", etc HERE)

Happy Modelling,

Aim to do it Once, do it Right, and enjoy the Results,

Prof Klyzlr

fast tracks = no expansion

For fast tracks turnouts there's no danger of expansion closing the gap because the rails are securely soldered to the two adjacent PCB ties. It's not like your spiked rail, there's less than 1/16" of an inch of rail hanging off the PCB tie toward the gap, that isn't going to expand enough to close anything.

The jeweler's saw leaves a kerf that's too thin for bread clips or credit cards. I tried a paper business card, but couldn't get it to stay put while I carved away the excess. My ultimate technique is liquid nails, pressed on the foot of the rail from underneath to provide a base to build on, followed by baking soda poured into the gap from above, followed by a drop of CA to set the baking soda. You get a very hard little plug in there and the gap becomes really hard to see, even without painting (the baking soda turns gray after reacting with the CA).

Paper

For thin gaps I’ve used paper, with thin CA wicked on to hold it in place.  Once it’s cured you can trim off the extra with a chisel tip exacto blade.

But I do like that backing soda/CA idea EW.  I suppose the base could be anything handy - liquid nails, maybe even tape?

And I agree, there’s no way the gaps around the frog in a fasttracks turnout will close up.  Any gap filling there is cosmetic only.

Tape might work.

Tape might work.

What I found with the baking soda & CA is that it quickly becomes hard as a rock, so it's difficult to chisel to fit the web of the rail without the whole thing chipping out. The caulk is easy to conform to the desired shape, but won't wear well at the rail head. So I combined the two, using the caulk to fill the rail foot and rail web area and then just a little baking soda and CA on top to fill in the rail head. 

If you fill the gap with caulk, and don't trim out the part that sticks out sideways from the rail web, then just push down on the top a little to create a depression the depth of the rail head where you want the baking soda, it holds the powder in place and you can drop in your CA, then trim out the caulk from underneath it.

All this is really overkill, but the gaps bug me something fierce. You put in a couple hours work to build a beautiful turnout with no silly hinges, rivets or springs and then have to saw a funny gap in it for electrical reasons. It's enough to make you want to go dead rail.

...

Theoretically, you could make your frog's diverging side to the length of the frog side ties and then use a separate piece of rail to make the rest of the ends leading away from the turnout, instead of gapping after construction is completed.  Before you solder in the leads, you'd put your gap material in between the two rail pieces, if you really feel it is necessary.

The point filing jigs and point soldering jigs are worth as much or more than the full turnout jig, in terms of utility.

Gaps

I use 0.010" x 0.100" Styrene strip to fill gaps. I put a drop of CA in the gap the punch in the strip shoot it with CA Accelerator and trim with a knife and files.  Once painted it disappears. 

CA and Backing Soda

.

I model in N scale and use intensively FT turnouts on my layout since 2009

I isolate the frog following FT proposal with a jeweller saw to have gaps 

I put  the turnout in a small pin vise between plastic board and easily saw the rails 

Effectively in the beginning I have had some gap closing with expansion this is not a fake this happened 

I begun to use thin plastic piece epoxied and filled but find it a mess and the N scale rail are tiny like the insulating plastic put in the gap; something which work in HO didn't work as easily in N scale !

When visiting a train show when I was still in Europe I see a wonderful PROTO87 English layout where they showed how to build magnificent turnouts in the PROTO87 quality's 

Since they cut gap for the frog like FT design I didn't see a plastic piece to close the gap but a something translucent blob on the gap 

They used CA glue and backing soda to close the gap, a nearly second job

After a minute they  fill the excess and this give an invisible filled and isolated gap

Since this moment I use the same system on my N scale FT turnouts without any trouble in 10 years

Chemical reaction between CA and backing soda make a joint strong as rock but which is quiet easy to file

Easy and extremely fast to do, even on already lay track

Solder blobs and baking soda

1) If you see the solder blobs I feel that you’ve used too much solder. With a little flux the solder will bond the daily or the tie like glue - no blob. 
2) Baking soda works great for filling gaps in HO and O as well. I hate to see the gaps and have tried a number of methods. A little squadron green works well too. 
3) After a few goes with the fixture you may find it just as easy to build right on a part template glued to the roadbed. I use a styrene shim to raise the PC tie to the same height as the wood ties in On30. Remember to pre-bend the rail. 
 

'nother tip or two

I found that sometimes a given tie in a given slot in the fixture wasn't making contact (or sufficient contact) with the bottom of the rail, and heating the rail with the soldering iron wasn't heating the pcb tie enough to flow the solder. So I would sometimes use a tiny strip of paper as a shim in some slots that seemed a hair too deep. Sometimes one fold of paper, sometimes two or three.

My biggest improvement came when I switched to very fine diameter solder. Much better control, faster melt, and smaller blobs.

I use kester 24-7068-1407. It's gone up almost twice in price since I bought mine in 2019 though.

Filling the gaps

A good friend of mine has hand laid all kinds of track over the past 40+ years. His "go to" gap filler is JB Weld 2 part epoxy. He mixes a small amount when he finishes cutting gaps in turnouts and diamonds, then applies it with a toothpick. A quick swipe of a file after it sets up will remove any extra material. The bonus of JB Weld is the material is non-conductive and doesn't expand or contract.

I can share a picture of his work, if you'd like to see some.

Tim Moran Akron, OH

Regarding gaps, DO it everywhere……….

……..like the Prof says, using the method the OKGraem outlines. For N scale that baking soda + CA sounds good.

Reason I say this I had a gap close on me creating a short.  Took me about 8 hours to find it.  Had to jump out sections of he bus wire to get a section small enough to find it.  Never again!

Peter

gap that closed

your gap that closed was between two soldered pcb ties in a fast tracks turnout? In HO? Or with a piece of flex track.

@EW……..

It was a gap in a turnout (O scale code 100).  To be fair I did a little "adjusting" of the rails beyond the diverging route which caused the rail to move making contact which I did not notice until I tried to run a train a few weeks later. It taught me 2 things.  Run a train (or at least power up the rails) to check for shorts after doing ANY track work, and physically block any gaps just as soon as you make them.  
 

Peter

Short and gaps - Some of my tips when building FT turnouts

As mentioned I use intensively N scale FT jigs for my needs

I believe I would be around 200 turnouts already built since 2009 including straight and curved and some crossover 

I often work a full day of building several turnouts and seldom one at a time, feel better an easier to build this way, second I have always some in hand like ready to run turnouts when laying track time comes

Gaps are done using FT methods with a jeweller saw; I put my turnouts in a small pin vise between two plastic board to firmly keep the turnouts when cutting gaps

Something I must insist to build quickly and reliable turnout is a fine preparation of all the parts and the use of only cleaned parts necessity 

Because handlay turnouts need important  soldering job, use clean and good contacts surface, you can't imagine how helpful it is to build easily a turnout 

Many shorts occurs not from the solder job but from the gaps  in the PC ties, sometimes small bridge of copper remains enough to short everything

I use FT laser cut PC ties and gap them with a small jeweller triangular file

Second I clean the surface of each ties gapped with a like  fiber tissue  used to clean and polish inoxydable welding ( coming from my old job) this not only polish the surface of the PC ties which are easier to solder but also take off any remaining small copper bridge from the filled gap

All bottom of the rails are also cleaned with this tissue

Here  comes a remark often named by users of FT jigs, I asked Tim about this trouble years  and years ago and this ended by the conclusion here

When ties are in the jig sometimes the rail didn't touch the ties, no matter, I always put weight on the rail around the solder point, solder fill the gap between ties and rails, the only thing to survey is to be sure the bottom rail is on the bottom of the groove in the jig.

Most of the time wood ties are a bit thicker than PC ties, again no matter, ballast will make this invisible, many says it's a trouble, not really , the only important thing is to be sure to have the rail on the bottom of the groove in the jig like Tim concluded before to be soldered, my experience after around 200 turnouts build confirm this and remember I model in N scale where tolerances are extremely sharp

20 minutes later when the turnout is build I take it off the jig,  check points and frog with a NMRA gauge, cut the gaps and heavily wash the turnout in a soapy distilled water, isopropyl alcohol and detergent and wash them with a old toothbrush 

When dry the turnout polarity is check with a multimeter, when OK , the frog is powered with a small wire,  gaps are filled with CA and backing soda, surplus are sanded smooth.

Turnout polarity is check again, and the turnout is ready to use

I wash the jig in the soapy water and build the next turnout

My day building turnouts are an half day of preparing the parts rails and PC board the second half to build the turnouts, this way a turnout building process take only 20 good minutes to be build

I use a home made bender rail tool useful for code 55, I use FT stock rail tools and frog rail tools but a number 12 so I produce sharp frog rail which are universal for the #6 and #8 turnouts ( and now some #10) which are my standard frog for my layout in N scale, solder is filled in the frog area to make the assembly stronger, PC throwbar ties is soldered with a low temp silver solder to have a strong soldering point for the rails on the moving ties. Only ME code 55 is used buy in full length of 3'

I use non acid flux, the finest diameter solder and before a Weller 81 soldering station, now I often use an American Beauty resistance soldering station, but in any case good tools produce good jobs.

I didn't use the FT laser wood ties but put individual ME wood ties under the turnouts.

I'm extremely happy with the FT system, I use 9 different  jigs, including two custom order in  N scale code 55; the turnouts produced are absolutely trouble free, you can't see a N scale car moving when they run through; some are in place now from 10 years and except one or two broken throwbar in the beginning I never had any after construction trouble, most are powered with Hankcraft display motors used like stall motor ( switchmaster motors are Hankcraft display motor)

More review about FT turnouts 

One remark to conclude, FT semi handled turnouts are NMRA tolerance build on the sharp side, this means all your cars and locomotives needs to have wheels perfectly in gauge following the NMRA standards, if not derailment are on the track !

Second for N scaler, the geometry used by FT for their system is similar of the one used by Peco code 55 in N scale, so Peco system is compatible with FT turnouts ( adjustment of track profile are necessary but easy to do) Don't know about HO track compatibility 

Time to complete and rail profile

I found that when I started it would take 4 hours per turnout, now I'm down to about 2. Some say they can do it in an hour per turnout if they make them in batches, but I get bored doing that.

Be careful with rail profiles, as you have found out, Atlas is rather different from ME, and you don't want to mix the two willy-nilly. Peco is pretty close to ME, you could probably get away with mixing and matching those two. I started using all ME because of FT, but I don't really like their flextrack. Peco is my backup if ME becomes hard to get.