joef

Okay, the developers told me they believe they fixed everything and so we loaded the forum data from Nov 11th on the new forum.

Go check it out at:

https://forum.mrhmag.com

It looks a LOT better now, but I did find the blog index bad link error hasn't been fixed. Everything else looks pretty good, but go have a look for yourself.

Remember when we reload, we completely blow away all old data, including your login. That means you have to start completely over by establishing a new login password on the new forum -- how to do that is below.

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

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Reply 0
joef

Reminder: How to get logged in for the first time

Here's a short video that shows you how to get logged in for the first time:

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

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Reply 0
Rick Sutton

A question

I noticed that the name of the blogger or the Original Poster appears to have been replaced with a circle with an initial or a graphic/photo. I have always associated the topic with a name. Even if I am not specifically interested in the topic I will often open a thread if I recognize the name/handle of the poster and enjoy seeing what's on their mind. I'd say that there are dozens and dozens of names that prompt that response and just a few that prompt my flight response.......strictly self preservation so my blood pressure doesn't go through the roof.

Initials.......not so much. Am I missing something?

Reply 0
Bill Brillinger

Behavior of linked images

I have many images setup in my posts that open as larger images in new tabs on the old forum.

On the new forum they open as smaller images in a gallery viewer.

Is this intentional and can it be changed?

Example:
Old Forum: https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/13651
/> New Forum: https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/bnml-track-plan-12057306

Click on the track plans in each version to see the different behavior.

Otherwise so far I am not seeing any major issues with content display.

Bill Brillinger

Modeling the BNML in HO Scale, Admin for the RailPro User Group, and owner of Precision Design Co.

Reply 0
joef

Probably not

Quote:

I have many images setup in my posts that open as larger images in new tabs on the old forum.

On the new forum they open as smaller images in a gallery viewer.

Is this intentional and can it be changed?

This gets into a real gray area because now you're asking the conversion to understand how people *use* the old forum rather than just porting the content as is. In other words, now you want the programmers to follow links to find what you *really* want them to use instead.

That's really getting out there, unfortunately. That's a slippery slope that could keep on pushing the conversion date out further and further.

My question back would be to see if there's a workaround. What happens if you replace the current image with the original larger version on the new forum?

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

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Reply 0
joef

Avatars and user handles

Quote:

I noticed that the name of the blogger or the Original Poster appears to have been replaced with a circle with an initial or a graphic/photo.   Rick Sutton

If the person here has an avatar established, that moves to the new forum, otherwise, they just get a circle with a letter on the far left, but to the right is the name of the person -- their user handle from this site.

What you're not seeing here is all the folks who post who have never established an avatar here -- like you, for example! You just get RS with a circle over there as your avatar, but immediately to the right is the user handle as always: Rick Sutton

See:

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/qa-about-the-tmtv-video-series-photo-realistic-modeling-with-rick-sutton-12083184

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

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Reply 0
Michael Tondee

I got a small issue Joe

On the first post of my "Building Bunzas Boatworks" blog/journal thread here... https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/building-bunzas-boatworks-12083565?pid=1329648393the photos don't show. They are fine in the later entries. No big deal, can probably be fixed manually if need be but just letting you know.

Michael, A.R.S. W4HIJ

 Model Rail, electronics experimenter and "mad scientist" for over 50 years.

Member of  "The Amigos" and staunch disciple of the "Wizard of Monterey"

My Pike: The Blackwater Island Logging&Mining Co.

Reply 0
Geoff Bunza geoffb

Still not there...

Joe et al.,

I don't think you are production ready quite yet. After delivering over 360 professional software releases, one realizes that to "converge" on a quality production release, one does not claim "ready" until all the prior bugs have been verified as fixed (or summarily dismissed as trivial). This is a lesson your developers have not yet learned.

First: Using the "link" icon to change a signature link (to my blog) does nothing - no insertion

Here is the review from my original list:

At MRH's original recommendation, most of my blog posts are of the form: Short titled intro sometimes with one pic, followed by an "Article" that I meant to be a complete description of a project, similar to what I might write up for a magazine article, but with more liberties taken for my own convenience. I found these issues remaining:

Fixed: Try the second entry here:  https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/sma30-a-simplified-wifi-throttle-you-can-customize-12024709
/> Fixed:  first new comment here:  https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/sma40-modeling-with-magnets-working-mu-connections-brake-hoses-structure-mounts-boxes-12031933?&trail=45

All aside from the article entries in the wrong place here:

SMA20 the "article" content is last instead of second
Fixed  SMA30 Text formatting is a mess (first page second entry)
SMA40 Article still on last page,           more formatting oddities fixed
SMA35 Article still at the end
SMA23 Article fourth entry down
SMA22 Article still  last entry

More bad formatting:
SMA26 Bottom of second post -- formatting still off
Fixed
:  SMA27 BOM at bottom of second post

Article out of place:
SMA22 Article is last
SMA23 Article is #4 on first page not second
SMA17 Article is #5 on first page not second
SMA10 Article is comment 61 not second
SMA5  Article is comment 6 not second, 2 videos in comment 5 "unavailable"
SMA4  Article is comment 19 not second
SMA3  Article is comment 9 not second

Have fun! 
Best regards,
Geoff Bunza

Geoff Bunza's Blog Index: https://mrhmag.com/blog/geoff-bunza
More Scale Model Animation videos at: https://www.youtube.com/user/DrGeoffB
Home page: http://www.scalemodelanimation.com

Reply 0
joef

@geoffb

First, any out of sequence errors are mine, not theirs. They can do nothing to fix the timestamps, we have to do that. If my timestamp repair process fails to fix all timestamps, then we will manually fix the ones that concern everyone and those that bother no one will move as is.

I need to do another pass of my timestamp fix but because I was in a hurry to check the other bugs and I was deep in issue rollout, I hurriedly fixed a few sequencing errors manually and sent them a database copy. Now that the magazines are out, I will have time to do another sequencing repair. Once my repairs are done, you can check them by making sure the timestamps on any thread of concern are all chronological.

Quote:

I don't think you are production ready quite yet. After delivering over 360 professional software releases, one realizes that to "converge" on a quality production release, one does not claim "ready" until all the prior bugs have been verified as fixed (or summarily dismissed as trivial).

In a perfect world, yes. However, the converted MRH forum being “off” in some ways that aren’t exactly ideal will have to do because we are up against a time limit that has to do with this old forums cost. I have been informed of a cost increase to support this obsolete forum that goes into five figures. We have little choice … go with a less than ideal conversion since we can’t afford a five figure cost increase per year — that’s just not an option.

Given this constraint, we will move holding our nose a bit if necessary rather than simply close our doors. We must be off the old platform for our forum before the end of the year or we will have to close this forum and relegate this site to just a few bare bones webpages and have no forum. I am also prepared to give anyone who needs to do some repairs on the new forum admin god powers temporarily so they can fix any formatting concerns.

Quote:

First: Using the "link" icon to change a signature link (to my blog) does nothing - no insertion.

I’m not following you, you'll have explain this more so I know what you’re talking about.

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

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Reply 0
eastwind

Geoff, I'm going to pick at

Geoff, I'm going to pick at your word "trivial". I worked at Microsoft for quite a few years, and while there are many things related to the software development process that company could do a lot better at, one of the parts they do with industry-leading excellence is shut down large projects for shipment. 

There is a process where a 'bar' gets slowly raised over time. For a bug to be chosen to be fixed, it must 'meet the bar', i.e. be worse in its impact than the bar. Early on, trivial bugs start getting punted. After a while more serious bugs start to get punted. By the last month there is a 'war room' with a panel of software engineering experts that each and every bug that is going to be fixed must be taken to, where both the problem and the fix are reviewed and a risk assessment (both of the fix and of not fixing the bug) is performed. (Most teams punt nearly all their bugs on their own and only take the most serious to war room).

Its is always the case that rather serious (non trivial) bugs pop up late in the cycle that get punted because the potential impact of the fix is riskier than the problem, even though the  problem is significant. It comes down to a 'can we live without the fix' decision. 

This is for major software, like windows and other big microsoft products. Part of the calculus is that there will always be another chance to fix bugs later - a service pack, or another release. 

Joe's conversion case is somewhat different, the conversion is only going to be done once, and there is no way to improve it later, but Joe has to manage the same 'bar' and at least informally go through the same mental process of risk management for each reported bug.

For each bug, Joe is going to have to evaluate the number of threads affected, the impact to those threads, the difficulty involved in manually fixing the issues later, and the risk of making a change (the risk that making the change will introduce new problems). As a non-software expert, he's going to be making a lot of SWAGs. He can ask the devs the cost of doing a fix and judge a little based on that, but without knowing their personal track records he won't know which ones are more credible (and safe) than others, so it's a crap shoot. And unlike the war room, he doesn't have the luxury of saying 'show me the fix before I decide whether to take it'. War room evaluates the safety of the code change by reviewing line by line the code (even though the experts are not experts on the particular code base). They look for how many different places are being touched, is it a large fix, a section rewrite, or just a one liner. They do have some background on whether the component is a bug farm or very stable code. Code in bug farms is less likely to get fixed late because there's more chance of introducing another bug (or two) because that code is such a mess to start with. 

One thing Joe shouldn't do is be swayed by the squeaky wheel syndrome. If a bug affects just one user's threads, and is possible to fix later, it shouldn't be fixed at this point, no matter how vocal that user is and no matter how many times that bug gets re-reported. That's tougher to do in a community like this, but it has to be done.

At this point, Joe should be punting all trivial bugs plus those that are not trivial, as long as they can be lived with or corrected later. He should be punting anything that only affects a few threads, regardless of how badly those few threads are affected. It's really down to show-stoppers only.

The discipline must come from development management, the young programmers can't be relied upon to do proper risk assessment. That's at least as true in this case as it is in any US company.

Well that's my sermon for today, I'll put my shoe back on and stop pounding the table with it.

 

You can call me EW. Here's my blog index

Reply 0
MikeHughes

Still lots of things out of order …

In some cases, where the sequence actually matters, they are badly out of order.

But if we can fix them after conversion, I’ve no worries in spending the time to do so.  I did it once already and can do it again on if it needs to be done again before the official conversion.

I’m still having a hard time understanding why the conversion team can’t read records in the order they show up in the old forum and write them out in the same order in the new forum.  If there is some magic in the way the old forum orders posts that have been edited, then they need to dissect that and understand it to be sure things are getting written out properly.  This may require a set of temporary tables in between the old and the new. 

One has to wonder if they are paying attention to the bug list and getting things right with a few test cases before trying to do the whole forum all at once. 

Reply 0
Douglas Meyer

Is anyone listening to Joe

Is anyone listening to Joe and then actually thinking about this logically?

1)  it is convert or die time.  Joe has implied before that this forum must be converted (and relatively soon) as a financial necessity  but he has now blatantly stated this.  And added a deadline of the end of the year.  

2) the end of the year is a lot sooner then you may think it is.  We have basically 6 weeks left to the end of the year and we lose pretty much two of those to holidays.  So we are down to 4 weeks.  It is crunch time people.

Now are there problems?  Sure in any conversion there will be.  But the truth is this site and it’s data are NOT mission critical to anyone.  By this I mean if push comes to shove the new site could be started and the old one dumped to a backup on Joe’s system only to have a few things pulled as Joe has a use for them.   In fact if Joe had done this to start with we would be more then half a year into the new site and most of the pain of transition would be behind us.

And frankly judging by how often someone has to point people to old topics that answer the question someone is asking I would guess that people looking back more then a week or two is a lesser used function.  And going back more then 6 months is hardly ever done.  As noted the site is used in the search engine polling stuff so acts to boost the likly hood that MRH will turn up in a search which is good and important.  But that does not require perfection in the conversation process the way converting Bank accounts would. 
In truth 90%+ of these out of sequence posts will hardly ever get looked at.  So a lot of effort and worry is being put forth to solve a problem most users of this forum will hardly ever encounter. 
 

At this point I think we are all better off if Joe skips all the nonsense trying to make changes/implementing fixes and has the team run the conversation.  The sooner the better.  The few remaining weeks will be better used as a safety cushion in case something MAJOR blows up in the conversion process then in trying to tweak the program so that a some threads get placed in proper order.  Sometimes trying to reach for that last bit causes you to lose what you could have had.  
So at this point my suggestions for users…  Unless you see a MAJOR issue with the new test forum that is impossible to live with (such as  it being able to post or log in or edit) just live with it as reporting a bunch of minor cosmetic stuff will just add to the burden of the team and could  cause important things to be missed.

My suggestion to Joe…  Schedule the conversation as soon as you can and keep the extra time as a back up in case things go sideways.  You may not need this time, but if you blow the time trying to fix something minoring then need it you are screwed.  And if you don’t need it you and your team then have more free time at the holidays to spend with your families. 
 

I understand you are trying to do this “right” and make the inconvenience as small as possible for the users but the truth is there IS going to be issues it is unavoidable.  But you only have so much time and losing that time to try to make a couple users happy is risking all the rest of the users and thus is illogical.

-Doug M.

Reply 0
Bill Brillinger

Links on Images continued

Quote:

I have many images setup in my posts that open as larger images in new tabs on the old forum.

On the new forum they open as smaller images in a gallery viewer.

Is this intentional and can it be changed?

Quote:

This gets into a real gray area because now you're asking the conversion to understand how people *use* the old forum rather than just porting the content as is. In other words, now you want the programmers to follow links to find what you *really* want them to use instead.

That's really getting out there, unfortunately. That's a slippery slope that could keep on pushing the conversion date out further and further.

My question back would be to see if there's a workaround. What happens if you replace the current image with the original larger version on the new forum?

No, I am not asking the new forum to figure out intent, I am asking the forum to respect the target links that are set on images. This is going to be an issue for images that are setup in posts to link to advertisers products as well.

ORIGINAL HTML:
< p> < a href="http://www.pdc.ca/personal/Blog%20Images/2012-04-26%20BNML%20Trackplan%204000px.jpg" target="_blank"> < img alt=" src="/sites/model-railroad-hobbyist.com/files/users/Bill%20Brillinger/2012-04-26%20BNML%20Trackplan%20750px.jpg" style="width: 751px; height: 495px;" width="751" height="495"> < /a> < /p>

NEW HTML:
< p> < a href="http://www.pdc.ca/personal/Blog%20Images/2012-04-26%20BNML%20Trackplan%204000px.jpg" target="_blank" data-original-title=" title="> < /a>
 
< /p>
< a rel="lightbox[1329736020]" href="https://d28lcup14p4e72.cloudfront.net/259338/7027453/%2520750px.jpg" data-original-title=" title="> < img src="https://d28lcup14p4e72.cloudfront.net/259338/7027453/%2520750px.jpg" alt="%20750px.jpg" width=" height=""> < /a>

As you can see in the above HTML the original link has been placed ahead of the image tag in the new forum instead of enclosing it.

I did some testing on the new forum and new comments with new images work OK.

  • Large images are uploaded and downsized to a modest ~1600px width.
  • Large images hosted offsite are inserted and maintain a link to the original full size image.
  • Images with links added to them behave properly.

Bill Brillinger

Modeling the BNML in HO Scale, Admin for the RailPro User Group, and owner of Precision Design Co.

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

Roundup

Dear Joe,

Roundup from previous reports:

- SHIFT + ENTER "paragraph break" not being respected = Now Fixed

- Ability to "Insert a picture" from an existing-uploaded-image in a "User Album" = Still Missing :-(
(Only options are "Upload" and "URL")

- Images uploaded/posted within a Post are NOT available/visible in the User's "Albums" = Still Missing :-(

- Copy/paste full YT URL "youtube.com/whatever" and short Share URL "youtu.be/whatever" embeds into Post as expected = Working OK 

- Insert YT "embed" code via "code" mode = Broken :-(

Examples available at 
https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/test-me-prof-12087673?pid=1330146789

Happy Modelling,
Aiming to Test Hard, so we can Migrate Soon,
Prof Klyzlr

 

Reply 0
barr_ceo

Let’s do it

Sure, there are some imperfections yet, but no showstoppers I can see. Joe’s right… time to hold our noses and take a flying leap into the future!

it’s NEVER going to be perfect, but it’s significantly better than what we have that’s demonstratively broken now, and only getting worse.

”21st Century Limited, now arriving Track One, bound for all points up line… no return tickets available!”

Reply 0
musgrovejb

“We Are Go Flight”

As long as all major issues have been resolved and the site’s features are functional, I say move forward.

Issues that do not affect the sites functionality and security can be placed on a “known issues” list and corrected after the conversion. 

Keep in mind with new technology there will be some differences from the old technology.  So would encourage everyone to be open minded and not to dwell on how things looked or functioned on the old site.

Joe

Modeling Missouri Pacific Railroad's Central Division, Fort Smith, Arkansas

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLENIMVXBDQCrKbhMvsed6kBC8p40GwtxQ

 

Reply 0
Ken Rice

Blog index

Half the entries in my blog index post work, the other half don’t:

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/ken-rice’s-blog-index-12083217?pid=1329648045&highlight=ken+rice+blog+index

The interesting thing is it’s the older 3 entries that don’t work - the entries that I used the tool to generate your blog index for.  The three newer entries which I added manually work just fine.

So, something about the form of the entries that index generator tool produces isa confusing the converter.

Not a big deal for me, I can manually fix it up pretty easily if it doesn’t make it past the BRB (Bug Review Board, as we call it at work, for the process Eastwind described a few posts back).

On the plus side, the formatting of converted posts looks good now.

Reply 0
JC Shall

Double Signatures

The bug previously reported with the auto-signatures is still there.

In the old forum there is a bug that automatic signatures do not add to the initial post to a topic.  One had to manually add their signature to that initial topic-starting post.

The new forum apparently fixes that, but now posts carried forward from the old forum have a double signature on the opening posts (the automatic signature in addition to the "manual" signature from the old forum post).

Check the Weekly Photo Fun posts for an obvious example.

I suspect that this is something that can't be reasonably fixed, and affected posts will have to be manually edited after the conversion.

Reply 0
Joe Circus

It's simple

Execute the conversion, now.

Correct the issues as they're reported in normal use.

As was pointed out above, spend the time after conversion fixing things instead or burning weeks fixing things just to find more important things after conversion, thus risking an end of year meltdown.

Most, not all, of the things mentioned as issues above won't matter after 2 weeks anyway, almost no one looks at a post more than two weeks old.

Reply 0
Prof_Klyzlr

I weep for us...

Quote:

almost no one looks at a post more than two weeks old.

I weep for us, and the hobby, if this is truly the case...

Prof Klyzlr

Reply 0
MikeHughes

Agree Professor

There is so much knowledge in the forum.

Reply 0
smadanek

tested to my satisfaction

as a plain old simple user...

I looked up a forum I had recently posted it and everything I needed was there.

Lets get this done...

 

Ken Adams
Walnut Creek, California
Getting too old to  remember all this stuff.... Now Officially a COG (and I've forgotten what that means too...)
Reply 0
joef

Bad blog index entries, images with hyperlinks

Bad blog index entries has been reported already and I’m asking them to be fixed. As for images with hyperlinks, I will ask that images on the conversion get the hyperlink to wrap the image correctly. That we can ask. If we get these fixed then I think we’re pretty close. More in the next post.

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

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Reply 0
ctxmf74

new login ?

If we create the new log-in  password  now do we have to do it again after the final change over? ....DaveB

Reply 0
joef

Why we have to fix the sequence problem

Quote:

I’m still having a hard time understanding why the conversion team can’t read records in the order they show up in the old forum and write them out in the same order in the new forum.

I have looked closely at this problem and determined the problem is OUR OLD FORUM DATA. Garbage in, garbage out, in other words.

By design, the new forum orders posts by timestamp. By design, the old forum orders posts by post Id assigned the moment you start a post. That can and does result in posts with timestamps out of order.

The developers have no easy way to create a timestamp that’s “correct” for their new forum. And since timestamp is the core design structure of the new forum ordering, they can’t easily change their forums base design to use something other than timestamp — that would be a huge and costly design change since it’s fundamental to their forum's design.

So — we need to fix the timestamps to match the post id order on our end, thank you, Drupal. I made one pass with my timestamp fix process and it did fix some of the errors but not all of them. I need to keep working at it until no timestamp anomalies remain. That I can do now that I’m past issue rollout and have some time.

Joe Fugate​
Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine

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Reply 0
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