Great to hear!

Standard Solder

So I don't know about the other threads, guess I could search for them, but standard Sn/Pb solder is supposed to melt at 361-374 degrees F. (183 - 190 C), so do we need low temperature solder?

Are we just setting our solder irons at too high a temperature or leaving them on too long causing the melting ties?

Standard solder

You seem to need the iron at least 100 degrees above the melting point of the solder to get everything hot enough so it flows.  So you might be able to get a 470 or 480 degree iron to work.  That’s either at or above the melting point of ties, so you’d still have to worry about it, although you’d probably have more time and margin than with the traditional default of 600 or 700 degrees.  You can certainly make good joints without melting ties (or at least without melting them enough to matter) with regular solder.  But why not use a solder with a low enough temp that you can be sure you won’t melt the ties even if you take a little too long on a joint?

"Cheap" soldering iron

With the "cheap" soldering iron/station like the ones from Weller (which aren't cheap at all), the tip is dumb, and therefore the selected temperature is never the tip temperature while soldering.
So, if you select 190°C on such station, you will not be able to melt the solder, you need something like 230°C, but then you don't know you hot the rail will be (it will depend on the length, contact quality...).

For having a more real temperature, you need something like JBC:
https://www.jbctools.com/cd-b-standard-soldering-product-1605.html

In these, the tip has a temperature sensor, but then is also more expensive.

I don't know for Hakko, as I only found fake ones here in Europe (at an affordable price), and then I got an old Weller for free.

But as for electronic components, rail sleepers will not like long time at hot temperature, therefore the first thing to do is to be able to solder quickly (1-2 seconds).

Yes we can benefit from low temp solder

You forget we have to always crank up the iron temp up to account for heat transfer loss. For solder that melts at 374F / 190C you will need 100-200F more or 50-100C more as the iron temp.

That means for regular solder you’ll need 474-574F or 290-390C soldering iron temp. Styrene melts at about 400F / 200C. Your typical default soldering iron temp is 600-700F or 315-375C, so the solder flows nicely but ties melt easily.

Thinking in reverse, we need solder that melts 100-200F below 400F or 50-100C below 200C. That means solder that melts at 200-300F or 100-150C.

Tix solder, for example, melts at 275F / 135C.

Resistance Soldering

One lead from my resistance rig has a spring clamp - fasten it to the rail close to the site. Other lead has a carbon rod with tip whittled to suit.

I press the wire to the clean rail with the carbon rod with one hand  and hold the solder with the other. Then I stomp briefly on the foot pedal. Real quick making the joint.

Test on scrap beforehand to get sufficient current without EXCESS.

DrJolS

Resistance Soldering

I’ve used resistance soldering for feeders and point jumpers on my past O and N layouts ( O point jumpers, N point jumpers and track feeders).  It works quite well.  But as you point out you do need to do a little experimenting in each new situation to figure out the best way to get a good joint without getting the rail too hot.

What really impressed me with the low temp solder and the temp controlled iron is the very first try worked, with lots of margin.

There’s lots of ways to do a nice job of soldering feeders on.  Joe has pointed out one more with the low temp solder approach, and it works quite well too.  And there’s more margin for redos and other screwups than with either resistance soldering or traditional 60/40 soldering.

Where to buy Superior No 30 flux

Not on Amazon, you can buy from the manufacturer direct with a $100 minimum order.

You can also get it here:    https://www.hnflux.com/page36.html#!/Superior-No-30-Supersafe%E2%84%A2-Soldering-Flux-Gel-Paste/c/12937145

Low temp solder was a nogo for me

I tried a low temp m solder  that joe recommended and had very little luck with it.  It simply did not preform like regular solder.  So I went back to my 25 watt Weller and 60/40 and all is well(er) lol.

Very Interesting....

on the use of low temp soldering. Just reading the few posts above one can see, it's what works best for yourself. If I was just starting out fresh doing feeder wires & such, I would look at the low temp angle, but I have already invested time, money & energy in what I have now. Like anything else with this hobby, there is a learning curve, and I am satisfied with my results, which includes decoder installs & track feeder installs. I use a resistance solder machine for feeder wires, with a 0.8mm lead free solder & the supersafe liquid flux. I solder all my feeders with the track in a vise with the web of the rail horizontal, clean the spot to solder with a scratch brush, hook up machine, step on the pedal & done. Of course there was some tie meltage until I got the learning curve figured out........

If the shoe fits …

Probable Dumb Question

Would using low temp solders with a non-regulated iron allow one to get in and out quickly enough to avoid melting ties?

Worth trying or unlikely that anyone is that fast?

David Stewart

Low temp solder with regular iron

I suppose you might get some benefit by needing to heat the rail a bit less.  I’d guess the result would be pretty dependent on your exact equipment and technique.  With a resistance soldering rig you might be able to reduce the power setting you use and the time you have to have the er applied.  With a regular iron it would just be down to speed.  If you’re game, try a test and let us know how it goes!

Solder size

I found that using a smaller size solder works good for me. I make sure the rail is clean, clean tinned tip and .020" 60/40 or 63/37 works fine without melting ties or spike heads. The smaller wire solder size melts quicker than the thicker sizes. I tin the rail and the wire and then go in and join them. I use the same solder to do decoders and most other electrical solder joints. I mostly use a Weller WESD 51 (50 watt) soldering station. I bought it so I don't have to worry about static electricity burning up electronics.

For soldering wires on LEDs I use .015" 63/37 solder.

Richard Webster

hot iron

I don't think ties should melt with a hot iron as regular solder melts so quickly that the rail can cool right back down before the plastic has a chance to distort. You can always dab some wet paper towel each side of the joint to cool the rail. I think anyone melting ties is probably leaving the heat on the rail too long? I've soldered feeders with regular pencil irons,old weller pistol guns, a Hakko set at 800 deg, etc.  but prefer hotip tweezers as I can hold the feeder solidly against  the rail then hit the foot switch for a couple seconds then hold the tweezers a bit longer til the solder hardens, very fool proof :> ) The only downside of the hotip is finding a comfortable position to hold the tweezers on the joint and still be able to step on the foot switch.Sometimes the bench work is too wide to reach both without standing on a step stool and trying to find the foot switch by feel ..  ......DaveB