railandsail
I have 3 new sets of these great looking cars, but have never run them as I am just now getting a nice double deck layout ready to run some.


On occasion yesterday I was inspecting one of the sets of container cars, and several of the trucks simply came apart in my hands. I thought perhaps MEK would glue things back together, but that was a negative.

 
These trucks also have 3 connecting members between the 2 side frames,..making them even harder to try and reassemble,... (and my 78 yr old hands and eyes might complain).
 

Glue or replace?   ( I suspect Intermountain is aware of a problem with these, but I did not find many voices about it?)
 
 

Brian

1) First Ideas: Help Designing Dbl-Deck Plan in Dedicated Shed
2) Next Idea: Another Interesting Trackplan to Consider
3) Final Plan: Trans-Continental Connector

Reply 0
railandsail

I did find this quote,..   

I did find this quote,..    https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?3,2764737
 

Quote:

What's the secret to making these guys run for more than a few laps? I have the I-Mtn assembled run, somedays the plastic 'screen' on the bottom hangs up on frogs, sometimes the lead well derails on a curve due to the weight of the train behind, last week the I-Mtn multi-piece trucks exploded. Seems like a truck issue but would like to hear any ideas.

Quote:

Another fellow responded,..
I replaced all my Intermountain multi-piece trucks with solid ones a long time ago. They sent me free replacements.

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railandsail

multi-part truck

age(313).png 

 

and here you can see that 'studded' portion that fits inside the cross member,...plenty big, but does not stay in place when wheels/axle pushes truck apart.
age(314).png 

Reply 0
King_coal

Red Caboose X29 trucks had a similar design

No brake beams, but 3 piece. I have pinned the bolster by drilling for wire, then gluing with ACC. Since they were a PRR design, the replacement route is more difficult. I'd make sure to pay attention to squaring them. I also replaced the RC wheelsets with Intermountain.

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jimfitch

If those are the multipart

If those are the multipart trucks from Intermountain, they came on a bunch of early Intermountain RTR covered hoppers - they tended to come apart and were terrible.  Intermountain kindly sent me replacement trucks that were one-piece.  IIRC, Intermountain offers the Twin Stack well cars - I have 3 sets of them but haven't had them out of the box lately.

.

Jim Fitch
northern VA

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railandsail

I've sent an email off to

I've sent an email off to Intermountain and will see what they have to say.  I realize these cars are rather old run, but they don't make them any longer,...they are really nice cars,...and they command quite a price tag in the used market these days. I was thinking of selling one of my sets as I'm not so sure I would make use of the total number of container cars that it appears I have.

 

 

Reply 0
ctxmf74

  "here you can see that

Quote:

"here you can see that 'studded' portion that fits inside the cross member,...plenty big, but does not stay in place when wheels/axle pushes truck apart"

Is is supposed to have a tab or notch or something similar to lock it in place? If the tab is missing you might be able to drill and pin the shaft with a thin piece of wire? Most glues don't work well on delrin and other slippery plastics, I've used Walthers Goo with some success but it's very messy to work with.  ......DaveB

Reply 0
barr_ceo

Glues for Delrin

Google "cypox". It's not cheap, but it's the only game in town.

 

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railandsail

Gluing

https://hackaday.com/2016/03/03/materials-to-know-acetal-and-delrin/

the model car guys offered this,...   http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/topic/116181-how-do-you-glue-delrin/

If I had to try some sort of gluing process i would want a process that would NOT involve taking the trucks apart,...as once apart I think they would likely be at EXTREMELY difficult to get back together in any properly aligned configuration, ...let alone include those other 2 cross pieces.
I would what a glue that I could just place a dab at the connection point of the major cross beam and the side frame.

Here's hoping Intermountain has an inexpensive solution to their problem child.

 


 

 

Reply 0
railandsail

Bondic?

How about the light setting adhesive that dentist use?

https://honestproductreviews.com/bondic-review/

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railandsail

Pascofix

I just remembered a product I used long ago on some slipping gears,...a marvelous super super glue from Austria

Pasco Fix

Combine that with the use of some baking soda as a filler,....that's a trick relayed to me by a model airplane fan who has used it to fix model airplane propellers,...as well as full scale propellers !!...super glue with baking soda.

 

Reply 0
rch

Replace the trucks

These trucks are not worth the effort it will take to fix them and frankly the fix probably won't work. The reason is they are designed to equalize but the execution of the design is poor so few examples will actually work as intended.

Years ago I worked with dozens of these trucks tuning them up to work properly. Out of those dozens only a few pair would ever travel through their range of motion without binding at some point in the process.

In order for the sideframes to twist against the bolster there has to be some slop in the fit of the sideframe to the bolster. That slop is the enemy of the axles fitting in the sideframe correctly.

Out of three sets of these cars, I'd estimate you'd be able to get a maximum of three or four pair of these trucks to function as intended. The rest would have to be replaced. So, that's what I'd recommend. And it's a good opportunity to replace the trucks with some that look much better than the original (which aren't much of a replica of anything, but are still far better looking than Intermountain's replacement one-piece 100-ton truck).

Tangent offers a nice selection of trucks that would be a huge improvement to these cars, and they're reasonably priced to boot.

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railandsail

Thanks Ryan,....what would be

Thanks Ryan,....what would be the proper ones to us on the Intermountain cars?

Were/are there 2 different sizes that need to considered,...like there are with the new 40' well cars by Walthers?

Reply 0
rch

70-ton on the ends, 100-ton

70-ton on the ends, 100-ton at the articulated joints. Ideally, you would use 70-ton ASF Ride Control trucks on the ends, but at this time Tangent only makes those in the solid bearing version (hopefully that will change soon!). A close second would be Tangent's 70-Ton Barber S-2-A. For the 100-ton trucks, Tangent's ASF N-11 trucks are close to the prototype if not an exact match. Of course, if rotating bearing caps are your thing, Tangent also offers that option in a greater variety than their standard trucks. For 70-ton ASF Ride Control trucks with rotating bearing caps, Athearn Genesis offers that option.

And a minor point, the trucks at the articulated joints on the Walthers Thrall cars are supposed to be 125-ton trucks, which have 38" wheels and a 72" wheelbase vs. the 36" wheels and 70" wheelbase seen on 100-ton trucks. The difference in wheelbase is barely noticeable in HO scale, but the wheel diameter difference does stand out.

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jimfitch

These trucks are not worth

Quote:

These trucks are not worth the effort it will take to fix them and frankly the fix probably won't work. The reason is they are designed to equalize but the execution of the design is poor so few examples will actually work as intended.

I'm with Ryan on this.  That's why I contacted Intermountain and even though I had purchased the Intermountain covered hoppers some years back when they were supplied with these trucks, they kindly sent me replacement single piece trucks.  Kudo's to Intermountain. 

.

Jim Fitch
northern VA

Reply 0
railandsail

@jim

@Jim,
I am hoping I get the same response from them

Has me wondering though,   if they were so bad why aren't there numerous other postings to that affect?

Reply 0
rch

Has me wondering though,   if

Quote:

Has me wondering though,   if they were so bad why aren't there numerous other postings to that affect?

Age of the cars?

It's been a long time since Intermountain shipped cars with the equalizing trucks. They've had the ugly one-piece replacement trucks in the mix for a long time now.

Those equalizing trucks were originally included with the cylindrical 4650cf and ribside 4750cf covered hoppers, both of which date back to the early 90s if I remember correctly (maybe even the late 80s). They earned a reputation around the hobby shops before internet discussion groups like this were common. 

Reply 0
Benny

....

Quote:

Has me wondering though,   if they were so bad why aren't there numerous other postings to that affect?

We're about 20 years removed from their release date.  You can be rest assured that the many forums that have disappeared since then covered the topic...in depth...to the point most of those trucks have been removed from circulation since then.

 

--------------------------------------------------------

Benny's Index or Somewhere Chasing Rabbits

Reply 0
ctxmf74

Try to save them?

I've never seen these trucks in person but if they look ok then before giving up I'd assemble a pair and pin the tab with a thin hot wire and see if it stays in place( heat a piece of very thin brass wire and poke it into the tab/bolster joint creating a locking pin, then clip it off flush) Only would take a few minutes to see if it's feasible. ....DaveB

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Modeltruckshop

@Brian

I’ll second or third or whatever the others thoughts.  This doesn’t come up because most got thrown out long ago. Quality trucks are not that expensive if you plan to run those cars much. It will be well worth the pain and suffering of trying to save the old factory trucks. 

Reply 0
railandsail

Yes I believe I bought 2 of

Yes I believe I bought 2 of my sets long ago at the Timonium Great Scale Show. Then I didn't have a layout to run them on so they just stayed in storage for years.

Turns out I have a third set that came equipped with double stack containers. I checked the trucks on these cars and they were different,...so either they were the newer versions, or the previous owner changed them out ( I bought this set used).

I still hold out hopes that Intermountain will step up.

 

 

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Benny

...

Quote:

I've never seen these trucks in person but if they look ok then before giving up I'd...

Oh no No No?!

Why can't we just stop being stubborn and learn from the experiences of others?

Quote:

These trucks are not worth the effort it will take to fix them and frankly the fix probably won't work. The reason is they are designed to equalize but the execution of the design is poor so few examples will actually work as intended.

Years ago I worked with dozens of these trucks tuning them up to work properly. Out of those dozens only a few pair would ever travel through their range of motion without binding at some point in the process.

In order for the sideframes to twist against the bolster there has to be some slop in the fit of the sideframe to the bolster. That slop is the enemy of the axles fitting in the sideframe correctly.

Out of three sets of these cars, I'd estimate you'd be able to get a maximum of three or four pair of these trucks to function as intended. The rest would have to be replaced. So, that's what I'd recommend. And it's a good opportunity to replace the trucks with some that look much better than the original (which aren't much of a replica of anything, but are still far better looking than Intermountain's replacement one-piece 100-ton truck).

Tangent offers a nice selection of trucks that would be a huge improvement to these cars, and they're reasonably priced to boot.

Stop making cents and just spend the dollar on a good quality truck and enjoy lifelong service without screwing around with the junk!

--------------------------------------------------------

Benny's Index or Somewhere Chasing Rabbits

Reply 0
railandsail

Flexible Truck

Quote:

In order for the sideframes to twist against the bolster there has to be some slop in the fit of the sideframe to the bolster. That slop is the enemy of the axles fitting in the sideframe correctly.

Do we really want the sideframes to twist against the bolster? I don't think a lot of our model train trucks incorporate this idea??

Reply 0
railandsail

How many different

How many different manufacturers built these HO scale twin stack cars??

Reply 0
rch

It's an equalizing truck, so

It's an equalizing truck, so yes by design the sideframes should twist against the bolster. It works the same way a prototype truck works, only It uses pivot points where the bolster attaches to the sideframes instead of the prototype's spring packs.

The idea is that the truck itself can absorb imperfections in the track rather than relying on one or both trucks being attached loosely to the carbody. When you use one-piece trucks you typically have one attached to an end of the car so that it can only twist on the bolster and not rock side-to-side while the other truck isn't tightened down so much so it can allow the entire car to rock side-to-side as it traverses imperfections in the track. 

There aren't many of these equalizing trucks available, though I think ExactRail offers some equalizing trucks. Their trucks don't fall apart like these Intermountain trucks are known to do, but any equalizing action they have is minimal. 

Equalizing trucks are popular among the Proto87 crowd since they use scale size track and wheels instead of our oversized track. Because the physics don't scale down so well the Proto87 modelers need all the help they can get from their trucks. Sprung trucks and locomotives with functional suspension systems are favored by those modelers. 

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